[blessingx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzula /img/forum/go_quote.gif Over 50% of the country's marriages prior to and after the more widespread use of prenups end in divorce. I'd be interesting to see what the stats are for prenup divorces...I think the assumption that the rates are higher for them isn't necessarily logical or correct.

You may very well be correct. I'm not buying all the 'stats' people are giving. There's however likely a correlation between pre-nups and wealth and there's certainly a relation between wealth and divorce, but most feel that's because both partners have the financial option of staying married or leaving. I'm not sure any of us wants people to remain married because they can't afford to divorce, and the economic option (or even legal ability) for most wives leaving hasn't been around long (or still in many parts of the globe). This is one of the many problems of viewing divorce-rates as indicating a societal problem. Of course most of us are usually sad when someone close goes through a divorce, but there are lots of societal issues surrounding this. Most obvious - homicide rates usually decrease immediately after a country legalizes 'no fault' divorce (in earlier mentioned Marriage, A History).

On this issue, you guys might find this recent NYTimes article interesting - Buy Low, Divorce High.

 

[Kirosia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzula /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's not naive...that's what you're signing up for! Someone shouldn't get married if sticking to the committment is unrealistic for them in those situations.

That shouldn't be how it is... to stay with a person for the sake of a marriage. People don't just get over stuff like that. When I get married, I don't expect my wife to cheat on me or vice versa. I don't expect myself to be unhappy and choose to be okay with it. I know it's possible, and if it did happen, I'm not gonna fight that hard to hold on to a meaningless relationship.

 

[EyeAmEye]

Musicjunkie said it best on the first page of the thread. It might sound bleak to some or negative, but the world isn't made of fairy dust and hollywood endings, things happen, feelings change over time, and the best of intentions now can easily become the worst of intentions later. There is absolutely NO way of knowing what will happen. Marriage is wishful thinking at the very best.

Computerpro3, I like your stance, but you really should never speak in absolutes. There are no certainties in life, except death, of course, maybe...

 

[jbloudg20]

All I can say is if the divorce would better the lives of all those involved (taking into account child emotional issues) then it is for the best.

In my situation, I VERY highly doubt that will ever be necessary, but I don't want to speak in absolutes either.

And if she wants half of my school loans... by all means

 

[Blitzula]

You know, we really haven't talked about the types of prenuptial agreements.

I've been talking about the type that essentially says anything I brought to the marriage is mine, the rest is equally divided upon divorce.

I think other types (if you cheat on me this happens, if we divorce within x years that happens) could be indications that someone shouldn't be getting marrried, or that the attitude entering the marriage is more likely to lead to divorce.

 

[Old Pa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzula /img/forum/go_quote.gif For the OP, if you don't have any property/money, talk of a prenup doesn't make any sense. Remember that time when George in Seinfeld asked his fiancee Susan for a prenup and she laughed? It's like that.

If I'm the OP, then there's also the situation where one party does not at present have any/much property/money, but has an almost certainty of receiving much property/money by gift or inheritance. You gotta look at both parties' circumstances. Remember, prenups are AGREEMENTS between the parties.

 

[usc goose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhd812 /img/forum/go_quote.gif i could hook you up with a cute polish girl that will pay you $15.000. let me know what you think, i get .10% of the closing costs..

I feel our definitions of money may differ somewhat.

 

[RYCeT]

I came from asian culture, I believe in marriage. However, marriage is about 2 people and sh1t happens. If one of us are better off than the other, It's foolish not to even consider a pre-nups.
Then again my situation is different, I have a son out of wedlock and I want to provide for him regardless of how bad/good my financial situation. In this case, pre-nups are the best way for me to make sure that he will get what he supposed to get from me.

 

[RYCeT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by usc goose /img/forum/go_quote.gif I feel our definitions of money may differ somewhat.

15k, you can get lot more from a chinese gal

 

[Old Pa]

With all due respect to those quoters of statistics out there, it has been my observation and experience that a minority of the marital population make up an inordinantly large portion of the divorce statistics. Now me, I'm willing to give anybody one marital mistake, although I'm still waiting to call my first. I've been lucky in that. I just think most of us are closer than we might think to being in general agreement about the necessary sanctity of marriage. Just my $0.02.

 

[mrarroyo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roam /img/forum/go_quote.gif 31 of the best years of my life and counting, in sickness & in health, for rich or for poor, till death do us part. I find it telling that the ones who advocate pre-nups are usually the ones who can't make a marriage work and end up divorcing, usually multiple times since they never learn from their mistakes.

I am glad you and your spouse have a happy marriage. I hope it last until the end of your respective lives.

However I find your statement both a generalization as well as simplistic, perhaps even immature. Not everyone that gets a divorce fails to learn from their mistakes as you stated. The fact is that about 50% of marriages in the USA end up in divorce, some are amicable but many are very vicious and either party can and will be petty and obtuse. It is because of this that pre-nups can and should be considered.

Yes, we would all like to think that it will not happen to me. The facts speak to the contrary and IMO, specially for those who marry later in life a pre-nuptial can be a instrument which could save them a lot of grief and money.

Finally I would like to encourage you to think through before you make general accusations. All you could achieve is start flame wars. I am not saying it was done w/ that intent but it is the way the comment came across.

 

[Old Pa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am glad you and your spouse have a happy marriage. I hope it last until the end of your respective lives. However I find your statement both a generalization as well as simplistic, perhaps even immature. Not everyone that gets a divorce fails to learn from their mistakes as you stated. The fact is that about 50% of marriages in the USA end up in divorce, some are amicable but many are very vicious and either party can and will be petty and obtuse. It is because of this that pre-nups can and should be considered. Yes, we would all like to think that it will not happen to me. The facts speak to the contrary and IMO, specially for those who marry later in life a pre-nuptial can be a instrument which could save them a lot of grief and money. Finally I would like to encourage you to think through before you make general accusations. All you could achieve is start flame wars. I am not saying it was done w/ that intent but it is the way the comment came across.

With all due further respect, I find this version of your response lacks the visceral vibrancy of the original.

I agree with both.

 

[jpelg]

I've been married for 5 wonderful years.

18 all together. But 5 wonderful years.

 

[Blitzula]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Finally I would like to encourage you to think through before you make general accusations. All you could achieve is start flame wars. I am not saying it was done w/ that intent but it is the way the comment came across.

I didn't take the delivery/content of his comment to be flame inciting.

However, alluding to the maturity of the statement in your comments seems like exactly they type of thing you're encouraging him not to do. And ironic given that he's made a marriage last for 31 years. Diplomacy is a two-way street.

I wholly agree with you, though, that pre-nups do have their place.

 

[mrarroyo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzula /img/forum/go_quote.gif I didn't take the delivery/content of his comment to be flame inciting. However, alluding to the maturity of the statement in your comments seems like exactly they type of thing you're encouraging him not to do. And ironic given that he's made a marriage last for 31 years. Diplomacy is a two-way street. I wholly agree with you, though, that pre-nups do have their place.

Well, when someone posts: Code:

[left]I find it telling that the ones who advocate pre-nups are usually the ones who can't make a marriage work and end up divorcing, usually multiple times since they never learn from their mistakes.[/left]

That statement is referring to 50% of the marriages in the USA. Then it follows that the 50% of the failed marriages are amongst other things "dumb" because they fail to learn from their mistakes. If that is not inviting a flame war what is.

We all have to be careful when we use: All, Always, None, etc. It could be a sign of a not very well thought out statement, in that all the recipient needs to do is find an example to crush said statement. Perhaps the use of Most, Some, The majority, etc would be better. It is on this basis I use the "perhaps even immature". BTW, notice it was left open rather than an absolute.

Lastly a marriage of 40 years does not in itself mean maturity. There are plenty of examples where and spouse was physically abused and out of fear stays in the relationship. Please do not construe this statement as me saying the poster is in that situation, I am not in any way, shape, or form saying or implying such a thing. I wrote this as an example of "one" to dispute a general statement.