[kramer5150]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Definitely don't worry about a prenup if you're not already wealthy. It can't cover anything you make from this point forward anyway...why even bring it up?

x2... if you have nothing, don't introduce that element into your marriage. Marriages are already stressful enough and require more commitment than you can possibly imagine. Focus on building your lives and futures together, rather than preparing for your break-up.

 

[blessingx]

It would be very interesting to see the members demographics (age, martial history, religious background, anger threshold, parents history, etc.) and their relationship to the absoluteness of some of the declarations here. Only one of those demographics are visible from profiles and I'm not sure if I should be surprised by a couple of the ages.

There are so many real-life considerations couples have to make that many of us don't think about until we or someone we know is in the situation. To get personal, my parents divorced and after a bit my father remarried. After a great, but short relationship she died of cancer, but before she did they bought a tombstone together. My father never thought he'd marry twice, let alone three times. After several years my father met someone else. As their relationship progresses he has to decide about a promise he made before and a life he's continuing to live now and may for decades to come. And the other side my mother met a great man, who was a divorcee and after nearly 15 years alone and retired, he set up his estate to benefit his grandchildren and made the announcement to their parents. Then he met my mom and they've been married for years and now he's torn between wanting to make sure she's taken care of (he's recently had some heart problems and his family history isn't so great) and already promising his whole savings/retirement to others.

What this has to do specifically with pre-nups is remote, but they're situations I doubt anyone involved was expecting. You could say the above two scenarios could be avoided by never getting divorced in the first place, but my parents are both much happier with who they've found then they were together. And we as their children are happy for that.

I've mentioned another take on pre-nups earlier, but I believe you should at least consider it because you love the other person as much as most would assume it was because of distrust.

And for those stating sociological facts about unsuccessful relationships, could you site them?

 

[TopShelf]

Prenups all the way

To me its no different then auto, home or health insurance. You buy into these, yet you will probably never use them. But, if you decided against these policies, and then something horrid happens, your pretty freaking screwed. Just like a divorce. Why should possessions that you "earned" before meeting your new business (errrrr.... marriage) partner come into question?? Anything you both earn or have as a "team" is what should be agreed upon at divorce time. Anything before, is history.

Your not just dealing with "love" your dealing with all your possessions and well being. If you want to split EVERYTHING 50/50 by all means, but if a person owned a house before marriage, they should continue to own it after divorce (or 300 grand of the new one they purchased if they use that old one to upgrade) and so on.

 

[Computerpro3]

I will never get a pre-nup.

When I make a commitment, I'm going to keep it. Period.

I've learned a great deal from my parents. I've watched them go from having to rely on donations to being millionaires, not once, but twice. Our lives have been a financial and emotional rollercoaster that only stabilized the last five years I lived with them. Life has literaly thrown almost everything possible at them; permanent dibalitating illness, death, poverty, wealth, death of a young child, severe family strife, etc. Sure, there were times that were very, very difficult. They surely didn't have that good feeling inside about each other at times. But they got helped and worked through it. They just celebrated their 25th anniversary and they can honestly say that they not just love each other, but like each other as well. They are still each others best friends. For real. Their level of commitment is simply unbelievable.

When I promise my entire self to someone in marriage (and that's what you're doing), under no circumstances will I go back on that promise. I've seen so many people divorce over such trivial issues compared to what my parents have faced.

As I said earlier, I've learned many things from my parents, and perhaps most important is the simple virtue of perseverance in every aspect of life, marriage included.

Before I get married, I'm going to make damned sure my partner can keep the same level of commitment that I swear myself to when taking marriage vows. If she can't, I know she is not for me.

A pre-nup invalidates marriage. In a marriage, you are pledging your whole self to your spouse. A pre-nup makes you incapable of doing that. It's like saying "I promise you myself and my entire self, except for my house, computer, and portfolio".

I'd love to see statistics about how many couples with pre-nups make it to their 25th anniversary compared to those couples who didn't have them. I'd be willing to wager that the marriages without pre-nups would be much more successful long-term.

And by the way, If I can't find a woman I believe capable of keeping that kind of commitment, I simply won't get married. Sure, I wish to get married and start a family with all of my heart, but if I do it, I'm going to do it right.

 

[kramer5150]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessingx /img/forum/go_quote.gif It would be very interesting to see the members demographics (age, martial history, religious background, anger threshold, parents history, etc.) and their relationship to the absoluteness of some of the declarations here. Only one of those demographics are visible from profiles and I'm not sure if I should be surprised by a couple of the ages.

Sure, I'll volunteer mine.
36/M. Married for 7 years, 2 kids. Overall its a happy marriage, my wife tells me so and I agree. There were maybe 1-2 times we wanted to rip each others heads off when we disagree, but we worked those things out and come to a compromise.

I'm not very religious, but I do believe there is a god & heaven of some sort, just not sure what kind they are. My wife is VERY-mild Bhudist.

Parents are in their mid 60-s and never divorced. My grandparents never divorced. My wifes grandparents never divorced.... although my father in law is a real pain to live with (stubborn old mule) and I admire my mother-in law tremendously for her loyalty and dedication.

Anger threshold??? I'm not sure what that means. I'm pretty mild tempered, but according to my wife I can be very stubborn.

 

[Wmcmanus]

Nope, not for me. I think the key is to really know the person you're getting married to and then to make it work with that person no matter what.

The way I look at it is that if she's not worth risking it all for (financially speaking and otherwise), then I shouldn't be getting married to her in the first place. At some point before your wedding day, your gut instinct should be telling you this (if there is something wrong), and it's up to you to act on it (i.e., when in doubt for whatever reason, don't get married).

In this sense being single should be the "default" position in your life. In other words there have to be overwhelmingly good reasons to change the default to something else (marriage) and you need to be mature enough not to get married when there is any doubt. But people change, so how can you ever know? I think the answer is that you have to place your faith somewhere else, and certainly not where your wallet is.

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trains are bad /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmm. Planning a marriage in December. Do you think any kind of legal preparation beyond the bare minimum is really wise? Dear fiance is less than thrilled about the idea of lawyers and so on. We are both poor, but I'm the less poor, it's not like I have a lot of net worth or business or anything.

Since you're both more or less poor, no.

-Ed

 

[usc goose]

My plan is to marry for the money. Anyone else with me on this one?

 

[Kilane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trains are bad /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmm. Planning a marriage in December. Do you think any kind of legal preparation beyond the bare minimum is really wise? Dear fiance is less than thrilled about the idea of lawyers and so on. We are both poor, but I'm the less poor, it's not like I have a lot of net worth or business or anything.

Having gone through the marriage and engagement hell that was mine. I can honestly say you are at least in part betting against yourself with a Prenup. Whether that means anything to you or not is up to you.

I wouldn't bet against myself on ANYTHING that I truly wanted to win, and offering a failsafe on what is supposed to be a life long commitment is not generally a good idea, especially considering it WILL be hard, and the possibility of leaving/splitting etc will be at least present, if not thought over.

In the end it's your life, your decision, but I don't think I could have done it.

 

[bhd812]

Quote:

Originally Posted by usc goose /img/forum/go_quote.gif My plan is to marry for the money. Anyone else with me on this one?

i could hook you up with a cute polish girl that will pay you $15.000. let me know what you think, i get .10% of the closing costs..

 

[Blitzula]

For the OP, if you don't have any property/money, talk of a prenup doesn't make any sense. Remember that time when George in Seinfeld asked his fiancee Susan for a prenup and she laughed? It's like that.

Over 50% of the country's marriages prior to and after the more widespread use of prenups end in divorce. I'd be interesting to see what the stats are for prenup divorces...I think the assumption that the rates are higher for them isn't necessarily logical or correct.

Personally, I think a prenup can make complete sense. And that it doesn't necessarily indicate that you're less committed to your marriage at all.

There's a lot of emotion and idealism in this thread. The person you married is going to change over time. I think that's general reality. With that change and your own, marriages can fail and the prior memory of love isn't necessarily enough to keep those divorces clean and amicable.

Heck, even if everything is amicable, it doesn't mean that reasonable (and unreasonable!) people can't disagree over what is fair. If you can spell that out ahead of time when heads are cool , that can be a big advantage.

We're not in a society with a 10% divorce rate where staying married is truly valued. If we were, I could understand the anti-prenup position. Given reality versus the idealized vision of how marriages work, a prenup can make sense in some situations.

 

[no1likesme]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Computerpro3 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I will never get a pre-nup. When I make a commitment, I'm going to keep it. Period.

DING DING DING we have a winner. I agree completely. Divorce is NOT an option. I take "till death do you part" very literally.

and for the demographic thing:

19 year old white male
Middle class
To my knowledge no one in my family has a divorce
College student
Political views are way to random to fit into either conservative or liberal.
Non Religious (unless you count FSMism)

 

[Kirosia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by no1likesme /img/forum/go_quote.gif I take "till death do you part" very literally.

That's naive. You'd stay married even if you were unhappy? Regardless how hard you tried to make things work? What if your wife cheated on you and wanted to leave you? What if you fell in love with someone else? What then?

 

[Blitzula]

Quote:

Originally Posted by no1likesme /img/forum/go_quote.gif DING DING DING we have a winner. I agree completely. Divorce is NOT an option. I take "till death do you part" very literally.

Seriously, that's excellent. It sounds like a marriage failing won't come from your end of the equation. My attitude toward marriage mirrors yours.

The problem, though, is that you're 1/2 of the marriage, and you can't really predict what the other person is going to do with certainty. You can only hope that you've carefully evaluated your spouse correctly, and that prior behaviors and attitudes remain consistent.

If you're wrong, the results can be disastarous to you and your family financially. I'd want a prenup if my assets at marriage were significantly greater than my spouses as a result.

However, the marriage certainly wouldn't fail on my accord...the prenup has no relation (in my case) to my effort in making the marriage work. Til death do us part is clear-to me at least.

 

[Blitzula]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirosia /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's naive. You'd stay married even if you were unhappy? Regardless how hard you tried to make things work? What if your wife cheated on you and wanted to leave you? What if you fell in love with someone else? What then?

Stay married, stay married, that's not under your control (assuming she absolutely won't stay with you), stay married.

That's not naive...that's what you're signing up for! Someone shouldn't get married if sticking to the committment is unrealistic for them in those situations.