[GrBm]

yes. Left and right channels being very closely matched in FR as well as volume and phase. Pretty much you need left and right channels to be as close to identical in all ways as possible.

For the record the only reason I know this for an absolute fact as well as the other posts about phase are because I install and tune the systems in my car. Lots of research and trial and error went into it.

 

[iatransducer]

yes. Left and right channels being very closely matched in FR as well as volume and phase. Pretty much you need left and right channels to be as close to identical in all ways as possible.

For the record the only reason I know this for an absolute fact as well as the other posts about phase are because I install and tune the systems in my car. Lots of research and trial and error went into it.

Isn't phase just frequency response.

 

[GrBm]

Isn't phase just frequency response.

Phase refers to the timing of a wavelength of a particular frequency from 2 or more sources. Sound waves are reproduction by pushing air (positive air pressure) and pulling (negative), one wave length consists of one full cycle of each, a 20hz tone will cycle from positive air pressure to negative 20 times a second and a 10khz tone will cycle 10,000 times a second.

That shows 2 wave lengths (one wave length is referred to as “one oscillation” on the graph), above the line is positive air pressure below is negative. If you have two sources of the same frequency perfectly in phase it’d be like laying 2 graphs of the wave on top of each other so it looks like 1, in that case they would be in phase. If you moved one graph to the right so that the peak of one positive is directly above the lowest point of negative air pressure that would be 180 degrees out of phase (one full wave length is 360 degrees), in that case the negative air pressure would cancel out the positive air pressure.

I hope I haven’t made that too confusing, it’s not an easy idea to wrap your head around. Took me quite a while.

But all-pass filters (which are what is used to current non-environment phase issues [created from speaker placement or crossovers] using a DSP) are pretty much the same as an EQ, in principle. EQs adjust how loud a particular frequency is and all-pass filters delay a particular frequency. Good all-pass filters function a lot like a parametric EQ only real difference being they deal with timing rather than amplitude.

 

[iatransducer]

Phase refers to the timing of a wavelength of a particular frequency from 2 or more sources. Sound waves are reproduction by pushing air (positive air pressure) and pulling (negative), one wave length consists of one full cycle of each, a 20hz tone will cycle from positive air pressure to negative 20 times a second and a 10khz tone will cycle 10,000 times a second.


That shows 2 wave lengths (one wave length is referred to as “one oscillation” on the graph), above the line is positive air pressure below is negative. If you have two sources of the same frequency perfectly in phase it’d be like laying 2 graphs of the wave on top of each other so it looks like 1, in that case they would be in phase. If you moved one graph to the right so that the peak of one positive is directly above the lowest point of negative air pressure that would be 180 degrees out of phase (one full wave length is 360 degrees), in that case the negative air pressure would cancel out the positive air pressure.

I hope I haven’t made that too confusing, it’s not an easy idea to wrap your head around. Took me quite a while.

But all-pass filters (which are what is used to current non-environment phase issues [created from speaker placement or crossovers] using a DSP) are pretty much the same as an EQ, in principle. EQs adjust how loud a particular frequency is and all-pass filters delay a particular frequency. Good all-pass filters function a lot like a parametric EQ only real difference being they deal with timing rather than amplitude.

So, in fact, if two drivers are out of phase with one another, they should cancel out and that cancellation should be present in the frequency response.

 

[GrBm]

So, in fact, if two drivers are out of phase with one another, they should cancel out and that cancellation should be present in the frequency response.

That is correct. That scenario would be slightly different that what I went into (which was more issues caused by reflections/crossovers). In that case one of the speakers would have to be wired in reverse polarity (+ and - switched, would give a positive charge when it should be negative etc.). In that case, if both speakers played the same frequencies, they’d completely cancel out. In that case the sine waves of the sound would be flipped upside down but not delayed. That’s one of the only scenarios where it’s not time related

 

[iatransducer]

This is only true insofar that treble quality is necessary for good technicalities. If you compare the XBA-N3 to the Legend X SE, a more technical bass-emphasized IEM, you can see that the two have about the same amount of treble overall: https://crinacle.com/graphs/iems/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,N3AP,Legend_X_SE

The original Legend X actually has less.

The Legend X series' deep treble notches at 5 kHz and 10 kHz simulate the effects of pinna activation and are important for bass slam/texture and imaging precision. QDC's house tuning with deliberately added 5.5 and 11 kHz notches does something similar. This is why DD and hybrid setups, which can often create these dips naturally, generally have more perceived low-end impact than most BA-only setups. 64 Audio rolls off the treble past 8 kHz and adds a nice big tia-driver boost past 14 kHz to fake this with the pure-BA U12t.

Conversely, an improperly defined notch from 8 kHz up leads to some upper harmonics being overemphasized relative to others and resultant transient smearing, which is why you need a tight, custom-like seal with QDC's IEMs to properly attenuate the upper treble and avoid turning them into plasticky, limp, textureless messes. It's also why EST tribrids, which tend to lack a sufficiently sharp peak past 12 kHz, often have that smoothed-out, wispy treble quality to them.

I think an individual's HRTF should be taken into consideration as well. for example, perhaps my HRTF differs from yours, so that 5khz and 10khz notches that simulate better bass slam and texture might be instead 4khz and 9khz for my personal HRTF.

 

[Fargeg]

I think an individual's HRTF should be taken into consideration as well. for example, perhaps my HRTF differs from yours, so that 5khz and 10khz notches that simulate better bass slam and texture might be instead 4khz and 9khz for my personal HRTF.

The angle/elevation of a sound source can change the location and magnitude of the notch, so it's not much of a matter of individual variation.

 

[iatransducer]

The angle/elevation of a sound source can change the location and magnitude of the notch, so it's not much of a matter of individual variation.

Didn't think of that.

 

[ljnew]

I didn't spend a long time with the Meteor and the review unit is delayed, so I don't want to deal in absolutes. It had a good sense of technicalities, probably in the range of the SA6 and Variations. But those IEMs also sound fairly different from the Meteor, particularly the SA6. The Helios comparison is easier to give. Compared to the Helios, the Meteor maintains the ~10dB at 20Hz but adds in more bass boost in the 100-200Hz region for more punchiness and fun. Similar upper-midrange characteristics between the two. Then the Meteor is more dipped in the mid-treble which leads to more of a U-shaped signature (that is, of course, less technical sounding) compared to the Helios.



I asked if they would release it! But I'm not getting my hopes up from their response ahaha because it'd basically undercut the U6t



Hmm, the Maestro SE and Fiio FHE sound nothing alike. The bass rise on the Maestro SE is more controlled and emphasized like you noted. But there are also a number of differences in their upper-midrange and treble responses (the Maestro SE is significantly better extended in the treble) which lead to two IEMs in two very different classes of sound quality.

Did you review or rank the maestro se?

 

[goodvibes]

So, in fact, if two drivers are out of phase with one another, they should cancel out and that cancellation should be present in the frequency response.

Except it's much more complex than that due to driver positioning and crossover phase shift. jh13 had linear response other than what has now become common rising bass below 200 hz. When Harvey got the drivers to time up , he had to actually change the crossover points (part values) because he was getting some much more amplitude at transition points. Same is true of loudspeakers. It's not always just additive reinforcement from crossovers that rarely have perfect phase within their operating range. 1st orders do but with a lot of driver overlap of varying characteristics and fussier about listening position and I believe 4th order are pretty good all the way around but a lot more parts to pass through and critical.

For instance, a 2nd order crossover prefers the 2 drivers to be out of absolute phase with each other in order to be more in phase in the crossover region. I'm fond of a few 2 ways that use a 2nd order on the woofer and 3rd order on the tweeter with them connected in phase. Tweeter seems a bit behind in time but makes for a speaker that works well when listening closer to the tweeter axis with an inside offset to randomize cabinet refraction. Closer proximity in use. There's an infinite possible variances in phase position of drivers in a system due to position and crossover. Even when you see a relatively flat overall (averaged) phase curve of a IEM, it doesn't mean all the drivers are in perfect phase with each other over their entire operating range as they have a good deal of overlap.

 

[Precogvision]

ThieAudio Oracle MKII Impressions

Configuration: 1DD/2BA/2EST
Price: $589
Unit was provided for review by Linsoul.

In the last couple years, ThieAudio has churned out a lot of IEMs, many of which are already long forgotten. Nonetheless, an IEM that unmistakably carved its mark was the Clairvoyance. The Clairvoyance alongside its twin, the Monarch, were the IEMs that most will associate with being at the front of the "tri-hybrid" (three types of drivers in an IEM) wave in late 2020. Sure, the Clairvoyance had its issues - namely being too blunted and forgiving for its own good - but it was a pleasant enough IEM that I at least found myself mostly indifferent to. The release of the Clairvoyance's baby brother, the Oracle, more or less maintained this trend. And now we have the Oracle MKII, the successor. Let's see how it fares on the chopping block given the positive reception that another successor in the ThieAudio lineup, the Monarch MKII, has recently found.

Not much has changed about the bass of the Oracle MKII sans perhaps a bit more sub-bass focus. The bass shelf really sounds a lot like what the Samsung Galaxy Buds have. And you know what they say: Comparison is the thief of joy. Sure, the Oracle MKII's bass is a smidge better in A/B, but bass lines generally come across somewhat puckered, blurred around the edges, and subsequently lacking in slam. The most I can say about this bass response is that it's at least inoffensive; it sounds like a mediocre DD with good frequency response.

Now this is where things take a turn for offensive. Whereas the Oracle and Clairvoyance leaned into a "warm and pleasant" midrange ethos, the Oracle MKII eschews this for something out of the Harman target playbook. And not in a good way either. The midrange of the Oracle MKII triggers the disturbing mental image of an anemic runway model. Female vocals are thin and seem almost...icy, due to the excess of 3-5kHz. This is exacerbated by an antecedent depression in the midrange from 1-3kHz. This type of scoop is usually employed to enhance separation (look at HiFiMan's headphones for example), but its drawbacks are laid bare in tandem with the Oracle MKII's strident upper-midrange tuning. Granted, these tuning decisions trigger less alarm bells with male vocals, but I find there's a lot of charisma robbed from mixes like Brett Young's "Catch" (he almost sounds...sleazy?) and The Rose's "She's in the Rain".

The issues with the latter track are compounded thanks to its abundance of guitars and cymbals. There's a more raw quality to the mastering of this track; the plucks of the acoustic guitar are well-delineated but sound plasticky on the Oracle MKII. This aside, the Sonion ESTATs on the Oracle MKII clearly have a new implementation to them. Whereas previous implementations of these drivers on the Oracle and Clairvoyance were relatively laidback and softer sounding, the Oracle MKII's treble puts more emphasis on the mid-treble regions from 10-15kHz. In fact, too much if you're asking me. Cymbals sound overly splashy to the way they clash. There's a quality to them when they fade out, and to a lot of shaker-like sounds in general, that reminds me of tin foil rubbing on tin foil. Sure, the Oracle MKII's pure extension is great and its treble looks good on paper, but subjectively, it comes across as cheap sounding and artificially strained. I think the bottom line is that the frequencies past 10kHz are difficult to nail down, and this strays too far into left field for me.

The Oracle MKII is not a particularly remarkable IEM for a sense of technical performance. Like its predecessor, the Oracle MKII sounds dampened in a bad way. It's genuinely difficult to put my finger on why this is the case. The Oracle MKII takes a lot of power to drive, almost as much as the Symphonium Helios (one of the most difficult IEMs to drive I have in my arsenal). But even with volume matching, the Oracle MKII sounds surprisingly flat and boring for gradations in volume. For a sense of detail, I have outlined my theory in the past that I think detail is mostly a function of frequency response and how it matches - or tastefully enhances - what we hear in real-life. The Oracle MKII viscerally illustrates this theory to me. Detail on it, to my ears, is mostly just surface level because of the overly zealous upper-midrange and mid-treble. As with most IEMs this thin and bright sounding, imaging is slightly above average of course, but at what cost?

Per usual, I need to disclaim the Oracle MKII is not a bad IEM in its own right, as few IEMs really are. But I genuinely struggle to see why I would choose the Oracle MKII over the original Oracle. And that's not to mention IEMs like the DUNU SA6 or the Moondrop Variations which, while of somewhat different flavors, I think are superior IEMs overall. I'd prefer not to get too nebulous, but I find it difficult to grasp the artistic vision behind the Oracle MKII. It sounds like it was made because someone said they wanted a successor to the Oracle, not because it was actually needed. And now look at how they massacred my boy.

Bias Score: 5/10

All critical listening was done off of my iBasso DX300 with the stock silicone tips and cable.

 

[Audio Fun]

The original Oracle still has most successfully done midrange tuning IMP, MKII is such a shame that don’t maintain this tuning…

 

[Gan Sheng Kai]

Hello, does anyone have experience or any thought on AAW brand? how was their latest iems?

 

[prawdziwysimone]

I see a Symphonium Meteor graph on your squig, are you going to share some impressions soon? If possible i would love to see comparison with Softears RSV

 

[Crudeliter]

Hello, does anyone have experience or any thought on AAW brand? how was their latest iems?

I can't say anything specific about the W500/W900 days or their current state except that they are becoming somewhat irrelevant imo, but a few years ago some mid-tier models were pretty well regarded in my circles. Mostly speaking of the AXH, which I owned and thought they were good at that time as a bright neutral-ish hybrid, and the ASH. Then heard the Canary, and it was decent but quite odd and unmemorable, frankly not worth the money in regard to overall performance. Today I rarely think of AAW iems as an option, even if I really like their design and build quality.