Precog's IEM Reviews & Impressions

[o0genesis0o]

@Precogvision just saw your Gaea review in my email. You have finally upgraded your iPhone rig to Questyle M15

Edit: about resolution, these days I have been thinking that we (people / reviewers, etc.) might be talking about different aspects. I agree that the apparent or perceived resolution (i.e., I can hear that tiny detail) strongly dependent on tuning, as you said. If something is loud enough to hear and not masked by others, then you would be able to hear it. However, I think that each IEM configuration also has “internal” or “true” resolution, in terms of how fine-grained it can distinguish similar or overlapping sounds. Some IEMs have a lot of apparent resolution (artificially sharpening by boosting 3k, 5k, and 8k), but still overly smoothened and would falter with dense music.

 

[DynamicEars]

@Precogvision just saw your Gaea review in my email. You have finally upgraded your iPhone rig to Questyle M15

Edit: about resolution, these days I have been thinking that we (people / reviewers, etc.) might be talking about different aspects. I agree that the apparent or perceived resolution (i.e., I can hear that tiny detail) strongly dependent on tuning, as you said. If something is loud enough to hear and not masked by others, then you would be able to hear it. However, I think that each IEM configuration also has “internal” or “true” resolution, in terms of how fine-grained it can distinguish similar or overlapping sounds. Some IEMs have a lot of apparent resolution (artificially sharpening by boosting 3k, 5k, and 8k), but still overly smoothened and would falter with dense music.

Its like combination of 3
1. True details, that came from the nature of the driver aka driver capability

2. Perceived resolution, that can be created by boosting certain frequencies mostly on presence region, around 4khz

3. Damper materials / system / tech that smoothen those details or that "perceived resolution".
One IEM that tuned to have +10db from neutral point on 4khz without damper can be sounded very differently from another IEM that tuned +15db from neutral point but dampened until final result become +10db on 4khz. See the filterless Z1R on crin's database for example.
This also applied on another frequencies thats why some IEM sounded too blunted on edges.

 

[GrBm]

@Precogvision just saw your Gaea review in my email. You have finally upgraded your iPhone rig to Questyle M15

Edit: about resolution, these days I have been thinking that we (people / reviewers, etc.) might be talking about different aspects. I agree that the apparent or perceived resolution (i.e., I can hear that tiny detail) strongly dependent on tuning, as you said. If something is loud enough to hear and not masked by others, then you would be able to hear it. However, I think that each IEM configuration also has “internal” or “true” resolution, in terms of how fine-grained it can distinguish similar or overlapping sounds. Some IEMs have a lot of apparent resolution (artificially sharpening by boosting 3k, 5k, and 8k), but still overly smoothened and would falter with dense music.

Its like combination of 3
1. True details, that came from the nature of the driver aka driver capability

2. Perceived resolution, that can be created by boosting certain frequencies mostly on presence region, around 4khz

3. Damper materials / system / tech that smoothen those details or that "perceived resolution".
One IEM that tuned to have +10db from neutral point on 4khz without damper can be sounded very differently from another IEM that tuned +15db from neutral point but dampened until final result become +10db on 4khz. See the filterless Z1R on crin's database for example.
This also applied on another frequencies thats why some IEM sounded too blunted on edges.

Edit: I should have started by saying these two posts I am quoting are excellent and well said. Goes without saying in my mind but no one’s telepathic.

The only thing the two of you are missing are the effects acoustic dampeners have on air pressure and thereby the performance of speakers/drivers. By design they restrict air flow increasing air pressure; all speakers/transducers have an “ideal” air pressure range. For home speakers it’s the internal volume of the enclosure where that comes into practice, IEMs it’s sound tubes and acoustic dampeners. The air inside the enclosure or sound tube acts like a spring that is being constantly compressed and stretched as the speaker moves. If there’s too much pressure the driver won’t be able to perform properly, you’ll get issues like blunted attack and decay that is too short. For the record that is exactly what people are referring to when they say something sounds overly or under dampened.

Based upon Precog’s review of the Oracle MKII it sounds it’s a perfect example of this, especially as it uses the exact same drivers as the Monarch MKII which didn’t have the same issues. Yes, they don’t use the same number of drivers but that wouldn’t have anything to do with issues like blunted attack etc.

 

[DynamicEars]

The only thing the two of you are missing are the effects acoustic dampeners have on air pressure and thereby the performance of speakers/drivers. By design they restrict air flow increasing air pressure; all speakers/transducers have an “ideal” air pressure range. For home speakers it’s the internal volume of the enclosure where that comes into practice, IEMs it’s sound tubes and acoustic dampeners. The air inside the enclosure or sound tube acts like a spring that is being constantly compressed and stretched as the speaker moves. If there’s too much pressure the driver won’t be able to perform properly, you’ll get issues like blunted attack and decay that is too short. For the record that is exactly what people are referring to when they say something sounds overly or under dampened.

Based upon Precog’s review of the Oracle MKII it sounds it’s a perfect example of this, especially as it uses the exact same drivers as the Monarch MKII which didn’t have the same issues. Yes, they don’t use the same number of drivers but that wouldn’t have anything to do with issues like blunted attack etc.

Exactly, the bad airflow is what i always nitpick from effect of too much dampening, or bad damping tech, like in many chifis using that nylon mesh, that blocks airflow, bass usually is bloated because of bad airflow, im very picky about this kind of bass.
Nylon filter tame 2-8khz with affecting most on 2-4khz area, but made bad airflow thus lead to bass bloat or "trapped bass" sound, i don't know how to describe it in words.
Thanks for completing

 

[o0genesis0o]

Exactly, the bad airflow is what i always nitpick from effect of too much dampening, or bad damping tech, like in many chifis using that nylon mesh, that blocks airflow, bass usually is bloated because of bad airflow, im very picky about this kind of bass.
Nylon filter tame 2-8khz with affecting most on 2-4khz area, but made bad airflow thus lead to bass bloat or "trapped bass" sound, i don't know how to describe it in words.
Thanks for completing

Do you make IEMs? You should make IEMs. I'll pay to listen

 

[DynamicEars]

Do you make IEMs? You should make IEMs. I'll pay to listen

I do lot of mods and keep learning too, but i don't have that high skill nor company or factory to build an IEM from scratch.
If some company want to colab and make an IEM with me I would happy to, but on my choice of driver setup, acoustic housing, dampening tech and tuning lol because Im chasing for idealistic perfection, money isn't an objective.

Crin and HBB doing lot of collaboration with manufacturers but only responsible with tuning, they seems leave the dampening technique and other process to manufacturers and the company just simply use "shortcut" to achieve desired tuning example with that paper or nylon damper, of course on FR they will be looking great but the blunt edges, the bloated bass are there. The KZ CRN is one of the example and then the dioko.

 

[GrBm]

I do lot of mods and keep learning too, but i don't have that high skill nor company or factory to build an IEM from scratch.
If some company want to colab and make an IEM with me I would happy to, but on my choice of driver setup, acoustic housing, dampening tech and tuning lol because Im chasing for idealistic perfection, money isn't an objective.

Crin and HBB doing lot of collaboration with manufacturers but only responsible with tuning, they seems leave the dampening technique and other process to manufacturers and the company just simply use "shortcut" to achieve desired tuning example with that paper or nylon damper, of course on FR they will be looking great but the blunt edges, the bloated bass are there. The KZ CRN is one of the example and then the dioko.

This is a very interesting read if you haven’t already. Interesting how nothing is ever mentioned about air pressure or any specs that relate.

https://www.sonion.com/wp-content/uploads/Documentation_Designing_Earphones.pdf

And spec sheet for a random driver
https://www.sonion.com/wp-content/uploads/26J047-2004191.pdf

If I didn’t start out in car audio I’d have no clue that air pressure effected anything

 

[maceto]

@Precogvision just saw your Gaea review in my email. You have finally upgraded your iPhone rig to Questyle M15

Edit: about resolution, these days I have been thinking that we (people / reviewers, etc.) might be talking about different aspects. I agree that the apparent or perceived resolution (i.e., I can hear that tiny detail) strongly dependent on tuning, as you said. If something is loud enough to hear and not masked by others, then you would be able to hear it. However, I think that each IEM configuration also has “internal” or “true” resolution, in terms of how fine-grained it can distinguish similar or overlapping sounds. Some IEMs have a lot of apparent resolution (artificially sharpening by boosting 3k, 5k, and 8k), but still overly smoothened and would falter with dense music.

I got mojo2 for my desk - really not that portable.. but it felt like a good solid DAC for a newbie.

For a real portable option… there’s the M15 or Cayin RU6… and the W2 - I’ve read so many reviews lol and the RU6 measures like crap it seems, but has an old school sound I’d like to give a go as it’s not the pure and clean sounds you’re getting in the M15. The M15 does sound like a solid safe purchase though.

 

[o0genesis0o]

I got mojo2 for my desk - really not that portable.. but it felt like a good solid DAC for a newbie.

For a real portable option… there’s the M15 or Cayin RU6… and the W2 - I’ve read so many reviews lol and the RU6 measures like crap it seems, but has an old school sound I’d like to give a go as it’s not the pure and clean sounds you’re getting in the M15. The M15 does sound like a solid safe purchase though.

Usually I don't care about sources that much. I think for usual, practical listeners who cannot audition sources, rolling sources is an expensive and inefficient gamble anyway. With that being said, my exposure to various dongles via review samples and bad purchase decisions does make me appreciate the nuanced differences between sources. My current babies are Hidizs S9 Pro and XO. Everyone tells me that M15 is a more refined S9 Pro, so I'm quite curious. I mean, it got Precognition switch from Q5k, so it must sound decent.

Never seen or heard a mojo in real life, but when I started this "hobby", it seems that a DAP brick or a mojo is a pinnacle of portable audio.

 

[maceto]

Usually I don't care about sources that much. I think for usual, practical listeners who cannot audition sources, rolling sources is an expensive and inefficient gamble anyway. With that being said, my exposure to various dongles via review samples and bad purchase decisions does make me appreciate the nuanced differences between sources. My current babies are Hidizs S9 Pro and XO. Everyone tells me that M15 is a more refined S9 Pro, so I'm quite curious. I mean, it got Precognition switch from Q5k, so it must sound decent.

Never seen or heard a mojo in real life, but when I started this "hobby", it seems that a DAP brick or a mojo is a pinnacle of portable audio.

It was one everybody praised in reviews for sound - so I played it safe. It’s got other issues though. And portable enough for me to bring with me if I stay at hotels etc.

But I want something for walks etc - where a “super” portable comes in

 

[DynamicEars]

This is a very interesting read if you haven’t already. Interesting how nothing is ever mentioned about air pressure or any specs that relate.

https://www.sonion.com/wp-content/uploads/Documentation_Designing_Earphones.pdf

And spec sheet for a random driver
https://www.sonion.com/wp-content/uploads/26J047-2004191.pdf

If I didn’t start out in car audio I’d have no clue that air pressure effected anything

Thanks for sharing, I know the that air flow is really affecting sound, mostly bass quality because I'm very picky about bass quality (I also bit shocked that I have to to this far with Z1R to satisfy my bass quality needs, that i rated 9.5 / 10, and so far no IEM that i tried ever reach 9, only few on 8 and that includes all pricier IEM, kilobucks up)
but I didn't know about sound pressure (maybe it have connectivity with the airflow too).
I haven't read that thing and I will thanks for sharing but the link is from sonion that ironically the Moondrop S8 that I have is using Sonion BA for bass, with tube and sounded bad (I can see damper inside tube, maybe bad dampening too, not full blame for the driver), I rated 6.5 for S8 bass, that of course already with help of the good tuning of bass shelf.

 

[DynamicEars]

I got mojo2 for my desk - really not that portable.. but it felt like a good solid DAC for a newbie.

For a real portable option… there’s the M15 or Cayin RU6… and the W2 - I’ve read so many reviews lol and the RU6 measures like crap it seems, but has an old school sound I’d like to give a go as it’s not the pure and clean sounds you’re getting in the M15. The M15 does sound like a solid safe purchase though.

the Mojo 2 isnt "for a newbie" or you just too humble, but definitely you arent newbie anymore now lol.
speaking of M15, I heard good things about it and wanna try / buy if I got chance to.

 

[maceto]

the Mojo 2 isnt "for a newbie" or you just too humble, but definitely you arent newbie anymore now lol.
speaking of M15, I heard good things about it and wanna try / buy if I got chance to.

What’s annoying is that there’s not one of the official channels that sell the official M15 + their own iOS cable + leather case. You have to get it from China or get your own cable separately. At least what I found - and it’s also cheaper if you go the China route…

 

[surfgeorge]

Usually I don't care about sources that much. I think for usual, practical listeners who cannot audition sources, rolling sources is an expensive and inefficient gamble anyway. With that being said, my exposure to various dongles via review samples and bad purchase decisions does make me appreciate the nuanced differences between sources. My current babies are Hidizs S9 Pro and XO. Everyone tells me that M15 is a more refined S9 Pro, so I'm quite curious. I mean, it got Precognition switch from Q5k, so it must sound decent.

Never seen or heard a mojo in real life, but when I started this "hobby", it seems that a DAP brick or a mojo is a pinnacle of portable audio.

When I started in head-fi world, the costs for a DAC like the Mojo seemed prohibitively expensive, but when I got it it really made a difference to the SQ of my 200...300€ IEMs.
When I entered the kilobuck price range with the IER-M9 I ended up getting a Hugo 2 as it was a clear step up in SQ compared to Mojo original
Buying the Mojo 2 I hoped that it would allow me to sell off the Hugo 2, but alas I could not give up the transparency, dynamics, stage, detail and texture of the Hugo.
And now I just took my IEM game to the next level with an IER-Z1R, and the SQ improvement between the Mojo 2 and Hugo 2 is even more apparent than with the M9.
And the SQ from the pairing of Hugo 2 with Z1R is phenomenal...

I fully agree that really good sources are expensive, on the other hand source quality needs to be good enough if you want to hear the full potential of your IEMs.
For me personally that meant spending more money on the source than on the IEM at each level, and I never regretted any of my investments into better sources.
Bottomline - I'd recommend everyone who has the chance to listen to a REALLY good source, just to have a reference point, see what's possible.

 

[TooPoorForHiFi]

@Precogvision between the PR1 Balance and PR1 HiFi, Which one do you prefer? You think they're worth the price? Quick impression?