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Some of what he has to say holds a lot of truth, but I'm still trying to figure out if he misunderstood uncle erick's post, or if he's just posting a random rant.
The second paragraph was indeed a rant, directed generally, at people with the attitude that because an experiment occurred, that they could make gross generalisations as a result. I probably should add that I don't think all experiments are bad, I just see a lot of BS here and on audio forums where people claim to be doing good science, which may or may not be true, but then making gross conclusions about things in general which is
not science.
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Currawong, your post above reads like a rant against the press, science and suggests that there is a devious motive behind testing. Is that really the position that you hold?
Re-read my post again please. You're only seeing bits of it. My rant is against bad science and BS conclusions which people make. I'm not saying this about all experiments or people, just a certain segment. An intelligent person will be able to see clearly whether someone or something falls under my post or not.
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I assume here that you're referring to the DBT's comparing audio components and interconnects? I have serious reservations about them myself. However, I wouldn't agree that in all these DBT's, the testers are biased. While I do have reservations about the test designs at times, I also have a fundamental problem with switching back and forth between two very similar signatures and being able to easily and reliably tell the differences while doing so. I have a problem with it even when doing sighted testing and it's not only with cables. I am much better able to tell differences when I spend time with one signature and then switch to the other. It's that one switch over that tells the most. Once I start doing multiple switches back and forth, the differences are much less discernible. As to the value of small differences, from experience again, I can say that small differences often make for significant differences in enjoyment over extended listening periods across different genres and different recording qualities. So I also have disagreements with those who say that even if there are differences, they they're insignificant and not worthwhile because they are supposedly so difficult to discern in blind testing.
The curious thing is I'm still yet to hear from an anti-cable enthusiast who does hears differences in cables and have willingly admitted that these perceived differences are imagined. Strong is the believer who has science backing his own personal experience. Bewildered at science will be the ones who have a convincing experience as any, and are being told by current scientific evidence that it's all in their mind. For many who experience this, they patiently wait for science to catch up. Many have persisted and discovered appropriate methods for demonstrating the truth in their experience. I'm in waiting since it's my belief that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. There'll always be a lot of contention in and around things that not all are able to perceive. Ego's will always abound and those who aren't able to perceive something will always claim that if they can't perceive X, then X doesn't exist.
I have much the same attitude. I decided, some time ago, that since it must be "all in my mind" that nothing should happen if i changed power cables. I was annoyed that, expecting nothing, I got a difference. I would like to know why. So I want more than just
"DBTs say it's all in your mind". I don't buy that, for a great many reasons, ranging from things I've learned about electricity, physics and electronics as well as about my own abilities and limitations and those of people, physically and psychologically. I'm pretty sure I could create DBTs that people would both pass and fail, with equipment that was both measurably and not measurably different. Hopefully my rant and this comment will prompt some people to have an intelligent discussion on this. Might require a lot of input from people who know a lot about electronics, as well about how to properly conduct experiments, though they are probably avoiding threads like this like the plague.
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Because he said this
"No testing of the listening ability of the subjects; no attempt to determine if the components being tested have any electronically measurable differences; no attempt to determine at what threshold a positive result can be obtained (related to the previous points) and the people performing the tests are usually extremely biased and are performing them intent on getting a negative result. None of this is good science."
To clarify I am talking about the science behind blind testing in relation to audiophile claims to do with power cables in particular and cables in general.
Hifi Wigwam conducted a test where four power cables were disguised with the same sheathing and then set to different forum members who had about a week each to try the cables on their own kit at home. At the end eight of them said they had heard differences between the same cable, as two were identical. None reliably picked out the audiophile cable. That is a well conceived and conducted test with no press influence or deception or religiously held beliefs to somehow falsify the results.
Currawong speaks speculatively and as I quote "None of this is good science". I am speaking of actual testing where there is is very good science.
I probably should have added "In all the experiments I have read about, there was..." As for the power cable test, thanks for the example. Got a link to it? What would you conclude from those results? Yes, I'm going to verbally slaughter you if you get it wrong.
I hope this thread can turn into something more like the 128k vs. lossless thread, where we're actually learning something and experimenting (though obviously with power cables that might be a bit harder to do) than just screaming beliefs at each other.
