[PalJoey]

  I know neither of the above is true, but I really don't see the point of the Pono player when the Pono store would essentially just be your regular HDTracks.
As for that first statement, I didn't say that the music from the store can be played only on the player, I'm talking about how it's downloaded. I'm assuming the Pono store can only be accessed from the Pono player; although I'm sure I'm wrong on that statement.

From what I've read, the files are downloadable via computer, not the Pono player, and will be playable on any FLAC-capable player. 

 

[thatBeatsguy]

  From what I've read, the files are downloadable via computer, not the Pono player, and will be playable on any FLAC-capable player. 

So, then, of what use will the Pono player be? Other than the fact that it's basically just another hi-res player, there's no reason to get one anymore. Oh, and it's a total eyesore, and totally inconvenient to put in a pocket because it's triangular. Therefore, that means Pono Music is nothing more than a name-endorsed startup HDTracks wannabe. 
 
EDIT: What still baffles me is what Neil Young has to do with it. yeah, I know he started this fiasco, but otherwise I don't see how his endorsements would make them any more appealing to audiophiles than it is now. And, IMHO, Pono is a stupid name.

 

[PalJoey]

The player is something of an add-on to the main project, which appears to be the website and catalogue. It is a good way to publicise Pono, having something tangible to show people, and may well sound very good, but the whole thing will sink or swim based on the website.
 
If they can get a substantially larger catalogue than HDTracks and make it available in more territories worldwide, they may have a chance. My view is that if the big players in the market (iTunes and/or Amazon) introduced better-than-MP3 downloads, they could afford to undercut prices and Pono would be swept aside almost immediately. 

 

[PalJoey]

Just had a bit of a go on the Pono site, searching bands/albums, and quite a lot is turning up with preview clips available to listen to.

 

[thatBeatsguy]

  The player is something of an add-on to the main project, which appears to be the website and catalogue. It is a good way to publicise Pono, having something tangible to show people, and may well sound very good, but the whole thing will sink or swim based on the website.
 
If they can get a substantially larger catalogue than HDTracks and make it available in more territories worldwide, they may have a chance. My view is that if the big players in the market (iTunes and/or Amazon) introduced better-than-MP3 downloads, they could afford to undercut prices and Pono would be swept aside almost immediately. 

My thoughts exactly. Schiit, if iTunes only started selling their stuff in ALAC, I would be an Apple devotee to the end. There have been some rumours about that finally happening ever since Apple's recent acquisition, so I'm gonna bet on that, fingers crossed. As for Pono, it's gonna either have to beat out HDTracks or be cast aside (as you said).

 

[DisCHORDDubstep]

My thoughts exactly. Schiit, if iTunes only started selling their stuff in ALAC, I would be an Apple devotee to the end. There have been some rumours about that finally happening ever since Apple's recent acquisition, so I'm gonna bet on that, fingers crossed. As for Pono, it's gonna either have to beat out HDTracks or be cast aside (as you said).

I probably won't be using any of these for my music. xD a lot of the time, the people I listen to offer free lossless on their songs. Plus, I prefer vinyl or CD's for songs that I have to pay for, which I can already buy on Amazon.

 

[doublea71]

  So, then, of what use will the Pono player be? Other than the fact that it's basically just another hi-res player, there's no reason to get one anymore. Oh, and it's a total eyesore, and totally inconvenient to put in a pocket because it's triangular. Therefore, that means Pono Music is nothing more than a name-endorsed startup HDTracks wannabe. 
 
EDIT: What still baffles me is what Neil Young has to do with it. yeah, I know he started this fiasco, but otherwise I don't see how his endorsements would make them any more appealing to audiophiles than it is now. And, IMHO, Pono is a stupid name.

I don't think he is trying to appeal to audiophiles - that'd be preaching to the choir. I think he wants digital music to sound as good as it possibly can by making the best masters available to the public and hopefully turn the general public on to a better listening experience. I'm pretty sure he's a capitalist, too. I think he's sincere about all of this, but he is overstating things when it comes to bit/sampling rates. I don't know if the website will have better stuff than HDTracks, but from what I've read, they will have a lot more information on the sources of the music they sell - HDTracks only knows what the labels tell them, which is often nothing at all.

 

[thatBeatsguy]

 
I don't think he is trying to appeal to audiophiles - that'd be preaching to the choir. I think he wants digital music to sound as good as it possibly can by making the best masters available to the public and hopefully turn the general public on to a better listening experience. I'm pretty sure he's a capitalist, too. I think he's sincere about all of this, but he is overstating things when it comes to bit/sampling rates. I don't know if the website will have better stuff than HDTracks, but from what I've read, they will have a lot more information on the sources of the music they sell - HDTracks only knows what the labels tell them, which is often nothing at all.

That makes sense. So he's basically trying to bring audiophile to the masses. To be honest, I'm quite interested to see how he would be able to pull that off. As far as I know, a lot of the general public is happy with 320 kbps (if not 192 or even downright 128). I'm going to love seeing the reception to Pono by Neil Young. 

 

[PalJoey]

 
I don't think he is trying to appeal to audiophiles - that'd be preaching to the choir. I think he wants digital music to sound as good as it possibly can by making the best masters available to the public and hopefully turn the general public on to a better listening experience. I'm pretty sure he's a capitalist, too. I think he's sincere about all of this, but he is overstating things when it comes to bit/sampling rates. I don't know if the website will have better stuff than HDTracks, but from what I've read, they will have a lot more information on the sources of the music they sell - HDTracks only knows what the labels tell them, which is often nothing at all.

Correct; he's made that point about not being aimed at audiophiles in interviews. Unfortunately, a lot of what has been written about Pono appears to be sourced straight from the various writers' imaginations. All sorts of odd theories have abounded, unconnected to Pono's apparently unread FAQs.
 
Neil has also said "I am succeeding because people are talking about how they would do it better." 
 
I'd be happy with a really big catalogue of CD-quality downloads, to be honest. In other words, what iTunes and Amazon should have been doing already by now. The high-res stuff will have niche appeal to most people, I reckon. According to the website, about 750,000 tracks have currently been 'ingested' (their odd choice of word), so there's still a fair way to go.

 

[doublea71]

I'd love to be able to find the best possible digital recording of every great album ever made in one place. Will it succeed as a business? I have no idea. I'm guessing the player will sound good, but its biggest strength may be in creating buzz due to its unconventional shape. People are talking about it, that's for sure.

 

[PalJoey]

  My thoughts exactly. Schiit, if iTunes only started selling their stuff in ALAC, I would be an Apple devotee to the end. There have been some rumours about that finally happening ever since Apple's recent acquisition, so I'm gonna bet on that, fingers crossed. As for Pono, it's gonna either have to beat out HDTracks or be cast aside (as you said).

I've heard the iTunes rumours too. If the good-quality downloads were made available by an industry behemoth like that, the Pono project go under, but NY's intentions would have succeeded in a way. Would an Apple equivalent have DRM, though?

 

[Mython]

Be careful... this conversation is straying into focusing on bitrate/codec as the primary factor

 
It's 'a' primary factor, but even more important is Recording & Mastering quality. As has already been discussed several times within this thread, the only way PONO musicstore will bring anything truly 'new' to the marketplace is if they have such integrity that they are willing to put in the legwork to ensure that all of their HD content is:
 
 
1) Mastered to a standard substantially exceeding a lot of the (so-called) 'HD'   junk already released by the likes of HDtracks.com. This would include the issue of dynamic range.
 
2) TRULY HD content (i.e. not with some offerings being upsampled redbook, as some other very dubious vendors have been touting)
 
 
Although they will undoubtedly jump on the lossless codec bandwagon at some point in the very near future, Amazon and Apple won't put in the legwork discussed above, neither will many of the existing HD vendors, neither will many of the major and minor record labels. It will need a venture with enough clout and enough integrity to proactively push for higher quality, and Neil's the only high-profile individual who is talking about such things in the public eye. ...but talk is cheap. I'm still not entirely optimistic that Neil will bring such integrity to his musicstore, simply because of the vast resources it would take to undertake a re-evaluation of the quality of each and every master for thousands of albums from different artists and labels.
 
The PONO player is, to my eyes, little more than a vehicle to pull the PONO bandwagon into the public eye (you can't take a digital musicstore onto Letterman, for example - it's just too intangible), and a physical object for PONO groupies to buy into to pledge their support. If it sounds amazing, then great; the whole DAP-buying public (including some audiophiles) have another option available to them, but PONO as a whole will stand or fall based on the quality and integrity of their content offerings.

 

[tinkertailor]

   but PONO as a whole will stand or fall based on the quality and integrity of their content offerings.

You make many good points in your post so but I disagree with this part because I think it will stand or fall based on having a better than average product + good marketing. It doesn't have to be the best but it has to be better than what most people have heard. Then marketing + hype should drive it and they can adapt their product. Look at beats, look at many aspects of apple products. Not everyone has time to research and find the best and if something is convenient, available easily, and hyped (along with some aspect of truth to its quality) then people will get it because they do want a good experience even if they can't research it themselves. 

 

[Mython]

  You make many good points in your post so but I disagree with this part because I think it will stand or fall based on having a better than average product + good marketing. It doesn't have to be the best but it has to be better than what most people have heard. Then marketing + hype should drive it and they can adapt their product. Look at beats, look at many aspects of apple products. Not everyone has time to research and find the best and if something is convenient, available easily, and hyped (along with some aspect of truth to its quality) then people will get it because they do want a good experience even if they can't research it themselves. 

 
 
As an audiophile, I'll admit to squirming at that, but, I have to concede that there is some truth in what you said.   Ain't life a b1tch?! 

 

[PalJoey]

They have to offer what the majority are searching for. A site offering mainly exquisitely-recorded acoustic jazz, ultra-conservative classical selections and a smattering of audiophile favourites will be forever niche. The catalogue's got to be big and populist as soon as it is launched.