[Camelogue]

Just did an A/B comparison of the utopia and the pioneer with same source with wywire platinum cable balanced.
I couldn't believe my hears literally!!
Thought i had wax in my ears actually.
I haven't recently had enough time to thoroughly go through my headphones in respect to Evaluation.
Folks, the pioneer is wider, separates better, bass response is akin to the th900, thought i was in a concert hall listening to David Sanborn actually.
If you an audiophile out there and you think the utopia is simply the best open back headphones in the world currently, i beg of you, enlighten/advice me per the foregoing.
Being an audiophile for over 40yrs and i really don't get the utopia hype.
Don't get me wrong now, theyre very good, amazing please convince me.
I wait impatiently.
Respectfully,
Karlg!!!!!

I totally agree. When I bough my SE1 I tried th Utopia, the Hd800 and the Elear. I also have a Beyerdynamic T1 that compared with the Pioneer sounds like an Apple white earbuds. .
I'm not audiophile but The detailing, sound stage, instrument separation and bass is amazingly superior compared to those sacred cows. I'm telling this under the danger of being banned for being a sacrilegious.

 

[LaCuffia]

It is peculiar how one or two influential early reviews can impact the prevailing narrative on this and other forums. A couple of well known critics said that the Utopia was the "world's best headphone" and it seemed that a lot of people fell in line like "yeah it really is!" The Master1 apparently got some bad measurements from some and it was dismissed by many without ever hearing it.

I haven't listened to the Utopia so I am not criticizing those who like it but with many products in the marketplace there is the power of hype and confirmation bias. But some things fly under the radar and over time gain recognition and respect. I don't think when the Sony R10 was released it was thought of as the second coming....now it's considered the God of headphones and going for $15k.

 

[MacedonianHero]

It is peculiar how one or two influential early reviews can impact the prevailing narrative on this and other forums. A couple of well known critics said that the Utopia was the "world's best headphone" and it seemed that a lot of people fell in line like "yeah it really is!" The Master1 apparently got some bad measurements from some and it was dismissed by many without ever hearing it.

I haven't listened to the Utopia so I am not criticizing those who like it but like everything in the marketplace there is the power of hype and confirmation bias. But some things fly under the radar and over time gain recognition and respect. I don't think when the Sony R10 was released it was thought of as the second coming....now it's considered the God of headphones and going for $15k.

What I think you're missing is that measurements keep us honest and more immune to confirmation bias. FWIW, I heard the Pioneers first and didn't see the measurements for months. When I did finally see them, I was quite happy to see that my impressions correlated to how they measured. FWIW, I'm a professional engineer and after 20+ years, the scientific method is very much the one constant in my thinking methodology.

As I said before, whatever floats your boat is always prime. As I mentioned, Grado headphones measure pretty poorly, but I've enjoyed their extensive colourations. But my personal preferences aren't transferrable to others and the limitations with colourations is that it typically limits you to a few musical genres where it may be advantageous. However, it almost always excludes other genres. I'd suggest you do some reading of the Harmon target curve and why this is usually the most preferred sound across many more users and genres.

 

[LaCuffia]

One question: how many published measurements and were the results the same across the board?

I am an attorney with 19 years of experience. I would like a poll of the jury.

 

[MacedonianHero]

One question: how many published measurements and were the results the same across the board?

I am an attorney with 19 years of experience. I would like a poll of the jury.

I've actually worked with Tyll on his measurement system accuracy and precision and know his setup quite well and know where things can break down and where they're quite good. I'm sure he's also implemented improvements as well since we did this work. I'll send you a link to another website with fairly well correlated measurements to Tyll's.

 

[LaCuffia]

I've actually worked with Tyll on his measurement system accuracy and precision and know his setup quite well and know where things can break down and where they're quite good. I'm sure he's also implemented improvements as well since we did this work. I'll send you a link to another website with fairly well correlated measurements to Tyll's.

By the way I am a fan of your reviews on Headphone Guru...very good reads. You have me intrigued about the HE1000 v2. Tried out an Edition X and liked it a lot - smooth and balanced sound.

 

[MacedonianHero]

By the way I am a fan of your reviews on Headphone Guru...very good reads. You have me intrigued about the HE1000 v2. Tried out an Edition X and liked it a lot - smooth and balanced sound.

Thanks! I'm a big fan of both headphones...but I suggest you give them a 1st hand try...correlating our preferences isn't a simple thing in this hobby.

 

[Karlg]

What I think you're missing is that measurements keep us honest and more immune to confirmation bias. FWIW, I heard the Pioneers first and didn't see the measurements for months. When I did finally see them, I was quite happy to see that my impressions correlated to how they measured. FWIW, I'm a professional engineer and after 20+ years, the scientific method is very much the one constant in my thinking methodology.

As I said before, whatever floats your boat is always prime. As I mentioned, Grado headphones measure pretty poorly, but I've enjoyed their extensive colourations. But my personal preferences aren't transferrable to others and the limitations with colourations is that it typically limits you to a few musical genres where it may be advantageous. However, it almost always excludes other genres. I'd suggest you do some reading of the Harmon target curve and why this is usually the most preferred sound across many more users and genres.

I do know the harmon target curve well actually.....in this regard, however, ill stick to the air studio to recording tuning...they've done an amazing job regarding the pioneer sem 1...
I own practically all presently referred to TOTL headphones minus staxes for obvious reasons(too power hungry).
Sir, the utopia's are somewhat overrated for what theyre worth in my opinion.
As an corporate attorney for Triple A international organizations, Focal did an amazing job promoting the utopia's.
Conversely, pioneer were found wanting.
Now, hifimam 1000 v 2 paired with wywire platinum must say i love as compared to the Utopia's.
My only reservation if i have one of the V2 is its cosmetic appearance....doesn't look $4000....but I can overlook that because they're spectacular.....

 

[MacedonianHero]

I do know the harmon target curve well actually.....in this regard, however, ill stick to the air studio to recording tuning...they've done an amazing job regarding the pioneer sem 1...
I own practically all presently referred to TOTL headphones minus staxes for obvious reasons(too power hungry).
Sir, the utopia's are somewhat overrated for what theyre worth in my opinion.
As an corporate attorney for Triple A international organizations, Focal did an amazing job promoting the utopia's.
Conversely, pioneer were found wanting.
Now, hifimam 1000 v 2 paired with wywire platinum must say i love as compared to the Utopia's.
My only reservation if i have one of the V2 is its cosmetic appearance....doesn't look $4000....but I can overlook that because they're spectacular.....

Actually all headphones priced over $1000 are overrated to a point IMO. I still remember the days where Summit-Fi were filled with the HD650, DT880, and K701s. The laws of diminished returns kick in after these headphones IMO. That said, please have a look at my collection of headphones and my reviews. Sadly for my wallet, this isn't my first rodeo and to my ears the Utopias are right there with the SR-009, LCD-4, HE1000V2 as my favourite top headphones I've had on my head. They are the best "performing" traditional cone driver headphones released yet and while I really dislike the new higher and higher price points that the personal audio industry is pushing, I have to admit that the Utopias are a game changer.

FWIW, Stax headphones aren't "power hungry"...might be the engineer in me, but they require completely different power requirements (voltage over current) and P = V*I. So while yes, they need quite a bit higher voltage, they require significantly less current.

 

[Karlg]

Actually all headphones priced over $1000 are overrated to a point IMO. I still remember the days where Summit-Fi were filled with the HD650, DT880, and K701s. The laws of diminished returns kick in after these headphones IMO. That said, please have a look at my collection of headphones and my reviews. Sadly for my wallet, this isn't my first rodeo and to my ears the Utopias are right there with the SR-009, LCD-4, HE1000V2 as my favourite top headphones I've had on my head. They are the best "performing" traditional cone driver headphones released yet and while I really dislike the new higher and higher price points that the personal audio industry is pushing, I have to admit that the Utopias are a game changer.

FWIW, Stax headphones aren't "power hungry"...might be the engineer in me, but they require completely different power requirements (voltage over current) and P = V*I. So while yes, they need quite a bit higher voltage, they require significantly less current.

"Games changer"......please elaborate if you may!

 

[MacedonianHero]

"Games changer"......please elaborate if you may!

Headphones that made me think for the first time that I could maybe sell off my Stax setup. Never had that happen before...and traditional cone drivers with planer like low distortion and stat like clarity.

 

[Karlg]

Headphones that made me think for the first time that I could maybe sell off my Stax setup. Never had that happen before...and traditional cone drivers with planer like low distortion and stat like clarity.

Per the foregoing, "game changer" from your personal sonic perspective i guess...
In simply terms, MacedonianHero, please state what in your opinion the utopia does better the SEM1 if any!

 

[MacedonianHero]

Per the foregoing, "game changer" from your personal sonic perspective i guess...
In simply terms, MacedonianHero, please state what in your opinion the utopia does better the SEM1 if any!

"Game Changer" is in relation to BOTH my personal experiences and actual objective data. As I mentioned, the SEM1's weren't my cup of tea. The Utopia on the other hand, are as tonally "bang on" as I've come across with stat like detail and quickness. In fact their detail retrieval bests the brilliant HD800S. Only the SR-009s pass them in this regard. But the tonal balance of the Utopias are closer to neutral than any headphone I've come across.

 

[Karlg]

"Game Changer" is in relation to BOTH my personal experiences and actual objective data. As I mentioned, the SEM1's weren't my cup of tea. The Utopia on the other hand, are as tonally "bang on" as I've come across with stat like detail and quickness. In fact their detail retrieval bests the brilliant HD800S. Only the SR-009s pass them in this regard. But the tonal balance of the Utopias are closer to neutral than any headphone I've come across.

because of the inconsistencies of the utopia's, i guess my copy must be a bad unit, probably!

 

[MacedonianHero]

because of the inconsistencies of the utopia's, i guess my copy must be a bad unit, probably!

Inconsistencies? The only one that was out was Tyll's initial review sample and he's chasing it down with the previous reviewer who might had left them in a very hot car (in Phoenix) for a while (maybe a new form of "burn-in" ). All of the others were spot on.

FWIW, I've received some reviewer headphones in the past for Headphone.Guru and they look like they've been through a few battles before they got to me. One, I had to bend the ear cup back into spot so that I could actually listen to them.