[CoiL]

 

  FWIW the X1 used to sell for $500 and now they're going for less than half that even before the X2 was made public. I love mine but there is noooooooo way I'd have dropped $500 on them. 
 
Do they color the sound? Of course. I don't get why that's bad.

 
Me generally would like to listen to the material as the artist intended it to be. Not with Mega Bass or Mega trebel but just as it was intended. But yes, all speakers and headphones will color the material in some way just as TV sets do. But again in diffrent extent. For us(me and gf) the X1 just muffled the sound way to much to be realistic and it was a big diffrence between the other headphones/speekers that we compared(this speeks for more coloring).
 
I have however notice that its not always easy to compare sound if its not a side by side compare. A sound may sound clear in a stand alone test but while testing it side by side it could turn muffled. That is my experions since my side by side and stand alone tests.
 
If the sound differs a lot it will be shown even in a stand alone test. While listening to the X1 for a couple of hours I often notice how much detail was lost in the upper region.
 
Heavy colord sound my be more appealing to some, i get that, but lets put it short, the X1 is everything but audiophile headphones.

Sorry, but I disagree. You seem to exaggerate again and lets not forget what Your opinion is based on (DT-880 / DT-990).
 

 

  exagerations... 
 
IMHO, X1 is NO WAY very bass heavy. Even among open backs it`s not very bass heavy. Yes it is bassy but in a good way. Lot of too neutral analytical headphones out there imo that doesn`t give You "real" bass. Get better low impedance cable and good matching amp/dac for X1/X2 and it actually becomes pretty balanced HP with only tinybit bass extension. 
For what it matters, I hate basshead/bassy cans and I do not even consider X1 being one of them. With stock high-impedance cable and no amping - I agree, its bass department is littlebit loose and overall sound slightly too warm and "muddy" because of it. And guys, look at X1 measurements made by Tyll - if it is basshead / very bass heavy can in Your opinion, then You must be leaned to brighter/too neutral sounding cans by personal taste. All this is only my subjective opinion of course. 

 
Okay, Im noob so you probably right, but yet again of all the headphones I tested side by side the X1(compared to the other openback) and L2 hade with out a doubt the most bass. I tested with what I would grade as regular hardware, if this is not enouth then the headphone would not be for me any way.
 
After about a month of looking for a new headphone set I most say that the measurments says vary litte about the real sound. I supose there is other things that builds the sound characteristics, like pad isolations and so on.
 
I do like high detailed headphones and this would probably mean bright/natural sounds, BUT I do want some bass to come with that, the DT880 is a bit so less for my tast, the DT990 is a lot better but the hights is just to high. So far it feels like more bass means less detail and when I have to choose I choose more detail over bass, the hard part is to find the right balance for me.
 
Anyway, Im really suprised that the X1 is so popular, to us it just sounded to muffled like there was to much fabric stoping the clearness in the headphone. But, yet again, I come from more brighter headphones so the lose of detail may be more pronounced to me.

 

  No, your`re not noob, just try not to exaggerate about bass and consider other nuances also It might give false impression to ppl who may want to buy X1/X2.
But then again, of course this is Your opinion and output based on Your experience and that`s also useful to many. 
 
Btw, what did You use as AMP/DAC when listening to X1 / L2 ? X1 do benefit with good matching DAC/AMP imo, and of course, better cable recommended.
So far, based on my own experience, baycode review/opinion and headphonia X1 review - seems like X1/X2 sound best with tube amplifier, tube buffered dac or "tubey" sounding SS.
I really love how my X1 sounds with Aune T1 (Siemens E88CC + ELNA SilmicII`s @ +10dB gain) and DX50 is only little behind it (SU 1.3.3 @ mid gain).
 

Still waiting for answer... 
 
 

  Been re-reading this thread as I work on my review. 
 
Just wanted to say that while the sonic differences between the X1 and X2 are somewhat subtle, they're also very well targeted and the sonic upgrade is significant in my view as a result.
 
I also want to say that I'm getting quite a lesson with this comparison, the X2 measurements look worse in some ways, to my eyes. But to my ears it's quite a bit better.
I had an email convo with the engineer of the X2 and there are numerous internal differences with the X2 that according to him were subtle improvements towards their evolving understanding of what the headphone target curve should be. I guess my point here is that I'm learning that to get something right for headphones, you don't end up with something that's necessarily elegant looking. The ear, human hearing system, and the complications of coupling to it artificially with a headphone and trying to make it sound natural is horrifically difficult. As a result, the solution as seen in measurements is very complex. 
 
Anyhow, it's been really interesting for me to look at the measurements of the two and see the X1 as having cleaner measured response, and then listening to the X2 with clearly better sound has messed with my mind....in a good way. 
 
When things start getting close to sounding good, you have to be VERY knowledgable to have the measurements remain meaningful.
 
Funny thing is, it's not just the X1---the New P5 and Thinksound On1 don't measure particularly well, but they sound pretty good.
 
Anyway, the lesson for me is not only do measurements not tell you everything, but you have to be way more expert than you think you need to be to understand them. 
 
Your ears remain the best judge.

Thanks for this useful input. Waiting eagerly for Your review...

 

[grizzlybeast]

I unsubbed. Now im glad to hear there are changes. Just give me a little more clarity and Im good.


Subbed again

 

[vertical]

Yes, very much looking foward to your reviewTyll...even more so as I am keen to (hopefully) learn from your analysis and thoughts on X2's sound vs metrics.

Thx

 

[Jimmy80]

Originally Posted by CoiL /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Btw, what did You use as AMP/DAC when listening to X1 / L2 ? X1 do benefit with good matching DAC/AMP imo, and of course, better cable recommended.
So far, based on my own experience, baycode review/opinion and headphonia X1 review - seems like X1/X2 sound best with tube amplifier, tube buffered dac or "tubey" sounding SS.
I really love how my X1 sounds with Aune T1 (Siemens E88CC + ELNA SilmicII`s @ +10dB gain) and DX50 is only little behind it (SU 1.3.3 @ mid gain).

 
Most users will probably just conect the headphones to a smartphone, computer or a receiver. I know that the amp will have its parmeters but you have to draw a reasonable line somewhere. This is what I used : 
 

I was using Yamaha RX-A1020 connected(HDMI) to an Intel Nuc that is running Windows 7 and Spotify. Not a audiophile qulity but good enouth for these tests.

Edit : They was also tested on a Logitech Z-5500 system.

 
I can add that some of the headphones was also tested on Samsung S3 and a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi 5.1 soundcard. The music tests stared with some Flac, high qulity Mp3 and then later on Spotify.
 
The headphone I hade for testing at my home was : Sennheiser Momentum, Sennheiser HD 598, Beyerdynamic DT990 Edition 250ohm, Beyerdynamic DT880 Edition 250ohm, Philips Fidelio X1 and Philips Fidelio L2. The X1 was with out a doubt the most muffled of them all.
 
I have been using a pair of Philips HP890 for about 12 years(on/off) and never found anything withing the pricerange($100) that could replace them.  I got a pair of Monitor Audio RS8 speakers that I really like even if thay are a bit bass heavy(but clear).
 
I did test some others headphone on the run like Beyerdynomic Custom Pro, Audio Technica ATH-M50 and Sony MDR-1R but I would  not compare them in detail becouse it was just on the run(in store).

 

[communic]

   
 
The headphone I hade for testing at my home was : Sennheiser Momentum, Sennheiser HD 598, Beyerdynamic DT990 Edition 250ohm, Beyerdynamic DT880 Edition 250ohm, Philips Fidelio X1 and Philips Fidelio L2. The X1 was with out a doubt the most muffled of them all.

 
More muffled than a 598?! If you aren't trolling then I'm really starting to believe you received a dud or worse yet Philips have changed their drivers (based on another poster's experience).
 
Both the 598 and its younger brother 558 were two of the most midbass-laden HP's I've owned in recent times. Insofar as making anything but hip-hop, dub, electronic etc difficult to listen to. Their only saving grace being having decently forward mids to help alleviate the blur. Decent I suppose for bass lovers but not for me. 

 

[ozyx]

Jimmy, so 250ohm headphones sounded cleaner than the X1, even from a mobile device? What kind of music were you listening to?

 

[SomeGuyDude]

   
More muffled than a 598?! If you aren't trolling then I'm really starting to believe you received a dud or worse yet Philips have changed their drivers (based on another poster's experience).
 
Both the 598 and its younger brother 558 were two of the most midbass-laden HP's I've owned in recent times. Insofar as making anything but hip-hop, dub, electronic etc difficult to listen to. Their only saving grace being having decently forward mids to help alleviate the blur. Decent I suppose for bass lovers but not for me. 

 
Bass lovers do not particularly enjoy huge midbass humps. Especially for hip hop, you need, and I mean NEED, the sub-bass to be potent. Hip hop basslines are in the 45Hz and below region, with quite a heavy amount of bass-heavy trap/drill rap sitting down around 30Hz (and I have several tracks in my collection that go into the 20s). I really don't know who could possibly enjoy that big midbass boost. 

 

[mandrake50]

   Hip hop basslines are in the 45Hz and below region, with quite a heavy amount of bass-heavy trap/drill rap sitting down around 30Hz (and I have several tracks in my collection that go into the 20s).

Could you let me know what some or all of those tracks are? I have been playing with trying to do some analysis on tracks with real low end. I haven't found much other than certain large venue well recorded organ tracks.. with much at all below 50  hz. There is some info down there, but it is way down.
If it is too off topic, please send me a PM.

 

[bassboysam]

Me generally would like to listen to the material as the artist intended it to be. Not with Mega Bass or Mega trebel but just as it was intended. But yes, all speakers and headphones will color the material in some way just as TV sets do. But again in diffrent extent. For us(me and gf) the X1 just muffled the sound way to much to be realistic and it was a big diffrence between the other headphones/speekers that we compared(this speeks for more coloring).

I have however notice that its not always easy to compare sound if its not a side by side compare. A sound may sound clear in a stand alone test but while testing it side by side it could turn muffled. That is my experions since my side by side and stand alone tests.


If the sound differs a lot it will be shown even in a stand alone test. While listening to the X1 for a couple of hours I often notice how much detail was lost in the upper region.


Heavy colord sound my be more appealing to some, i get that, but lets put it short, the X1 is everything but audiophile headphones.

And just how do you know how the artist heard it? what if it was mixed/mastered with a pair of M50s? Unless you use the same equipment used by the artist/engineer you have no idea what or how the heard it or how they intended for it to be heard You can have the most flat and nuetral system in the world, that won't help because albums are rarely mixed on such equipment.

Bass lovers do not particularly enjoy huge midbass humps. Especially for hip hop, you need, and I mean NEED, the sub-bass to be potent. Hip hop basslines are in the 45Hz and below region, with quite a heavy amount of bass-heavy trap/drill rap sitting down around 30Hz (and I have several tracks in my collection that go into the 20s). I really don't know who could possibly enjoy that big midbass boost. 

It depends. Hip hop that utilizes only bass guitar and not synth bass have very little below 40hz.

 

[s0ckpupp3t]

  Could you let me know what some or all of those tracks are? I have been playing with trying to do some analysis on tracks with real low end. I haven't found much other than certain large venue well recorded organ tracks.. with much at all below 50  hz. There is some info down there, but it is way down.
If it is too off topic, please send me a PM.

 
Whenever I get a new pair of headphones to try out, I always start with James Blake's "Limit to Your Love" to test out the sub bass capabilities - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOT2-OTebx0
 
Then I listen to the drum solo in Dave Brubeck's "Take Five" to get a sense of how tight the bass is - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmDDOFXSgAs
 
Then I listen to Yosi Horikawa's "Bubbles" for 3D imaging  - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Lan4tLZQA
 
And finally, I listen to Beastie Boys' "Sabotage" because it just makes me happy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5rRZdiu1UE 

 

[SomeGuyDude]

   
Whenever I get a new pair of headphones to try out, I always start with James Blake's "Limit to Your Love" to test out the sub bass capabilities - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOT2-OTebx0
 

 
That's a really odd track considering the only sub-bass in it is that wobble effect that shows up twice and in both cases it doesn't really... do much.
 
You want to see what a headphone has for sub-bass, even if you don't really like rap, this is a track that will let you know how much deep extension it has: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfqXw3Op_i0 That bassline dances deep and should have some POWER to it. 

 

[s0ckpupp3t]

   
That's a really odd track considering the only sub-bass in it is that wobble effect that shows up twice and in both cases it doesn't really... do much.
 
You want to see what a headphone has for sub-bass, even if you don't really like rap, this is a track that will let you know how much deep extension it has: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfqXw3Op_i0 That bassline dances deep and should have some POWER to it. 

How well you hear/feel that "wobble" depends on how deep your headphones (or your speakers for that matter) go into the sub bass.  

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  How well you hear/feel that "wobble" depends on how deep your headphones (or your speakers for that matter) go into the sub bass.  

 
All my headphones go deep into the subbass.
 
What I'm saying is there are significantly better tracks because the subbass on that is rather subtle and only shows up briefly. If you want to test, throw a track at it that gives some heavy sine waves so you know how much power they have. 

 

[s0ckpupp3t]

   
All my headphones go deep into the subbass.
 
What I'm saying is there are significantly better tracks because the subbass on that is rather subtle and only shows up briefly. If you want to test, throw a track at it that gives some heavy sine waves so you know how much power they have. 

To each his/her own.  

 
 
Edit: Oh, and the sub bass doesn't kick in until 0:50 and from that point on the sub bass "wobble" is pretty persistent.  Maybe you didn't listen long enough?

 

[Jimmy80]

   
More muffled than a 598?! If you aren't trolling then I'm really starting to believe you received a dud or worse yet Philips have changed their drivers (based on another poster's experience).
 
Both the 598 and its younger brother 558 were two of the most midbass-laden HP's I've owned in recent times. Insofar as making anything but hip-hop, dub, electronic etc difficult to listen to. Their only saving grace being having decently forward mids to help alleviate the blur. Decent I suppose for bass lovers but not for me. 

 
My first thought was also broken headphone but after asking around on internet the X1 is said to be a dark and not that clear headphone. There was users that said that my reaction to X1 sounded correct based on coming from bright headphones. The X1 I got was brand new and a faultet headphone that just did not played as clear seems a bit farfetched, its a lot bigger risk that a element is faulted or somthing more obvious like that. 
 
Yes the HD598 is not a vary clear headphone, not compare to the DT880 or the DT990 but one of the top ranges(mid or trebel) did bring a bit more clearnes then the X1 did. The X1 seemed more "balanced" in mid and trebel (same muffled setting).
 

  Jimmy, so 250ohm headphones sounded cleaner than the X1, even from a mobile device? What kind of music were you listening to?

 
Yes the DT880 and DT990 in 250 ohm is ALOT cleaner in its sound compare to X1, no doubt about it. This could be heard even when not doing the side by side test. On the Samsung S3 the X1 did get a bit brighter/clearer(dont know how that works) and the DT880/DT990 lost mor or less all the bass but they still gave a clear sound.
 
The music is mainly from the current generall top list but here is a list of some of them : 
 
Alesso - Heroes
Milkey Chance - Stolen Dance
Magic? - Rude
Maroon 5 - Animals
Ed Sheeran - Thinking Out Loud
Maroon 5 - Maps
Mr. Probz - Waves
Shawn Mendes - Life of the party
Molly sandén - Freak
Nico & Vinz - Am I Wrong
John Legend - All of Me - Tiesto
Pitbull - Fireball
Imagine Dragons - Demons
George Ezra - Budapest
Passanger - Let Her Go
Colible Callat - Try
Zara Larsson - Carry you home
Kygo - Cut your teeth - Kygo Remix
Oliver Heldens - Gecko
Fitbull - Timber
OneReplublic - Counting Stars
Tove Lo - Stay High
Rixton - Me and my broken heart
Codeplay - Magic
 

And just how do you know how the artist heard it? what if it was mixed/mastered with a pair of M50s? Unless you use the same equipment used by the artist/engineer you have no idea what or how the heard it or how they intended for it to be heard You can have the most flat and nuetral system in the world, that won't help because albums are rarely mixed on such equipment.
It depends. Hip hop that utilizes only bass guitar and not synth bass have very little below 40hz.

 
You are right, I can´t know how the artist heard it. BUT If I listen to songs from diffrent artists and compares them with diffrent speakers/headphones I would get a feel of how the products are coloring the sound. From what I read "real" artists try to use as natural headphones as possible when mixing for example DT880. When a headphone destroys the track with to much bass without even touching the EQ I can be quite sure that this is probably not what the artist intended. Besides its nothing I would like to listen on. The Philips L2 is a good example of a headphone that colors the sound alot in the bass range.