[Sinery]

Not wanting to disancourage you but..... The x2 are being sold for 160 euros new on a couple of european amazons....

Being a woox version may havê sone value to some but the newer Gibson pairs seem to have no problems at all.

Seeing 190 on DE and UK... but I suppose you've got a point.
Maybe the whole Woox/Gibson crapstorm has died down (but have got the shiny pads, peasants).

 

[Pharmaboy]

Just got my X2's today, fantastic build on them and they sound, on initial testing, very good.

I have a question for you good folks, my DAP at the moment is my LG V20 smartphone, which sounds quite nice but the max volume isn't quite doing it for me, so should I just get a portable AMP like the FiiO A5, or should I get say the Cowon Plenue D and consider getting an AMP later on (I can't find the output levels of the Cowon though)?

Thanks

Can't help you on subject of portable amps (no experience w/them).

But re this: "...consider getting an AMP later on" ... a resounding YES. total perceived volume is one thing, but when you listen to any amplifier through headphones (whether it's the chip in a cellphone, or a big honking desktop amp like the Violectric V281), you're also hearing the amplifier's power supply (how robust it is; the capacitors that filter it); its in-circuit components like caps & opamps; and things like grounding, S/N ratio, etc. There's a lot than max volume at play, and with a good amp, you really those things in positive ways.

Here are 2 examples:
Fidelio X2s: I first heard these headphones on the FiiO E10K, which is probably in the neighborhood of a portable amp (maybe somewhat less output power). I loved how they sounded and thought I was home free. Then I got a true desktop amp (Lake People G109-A) for not a lot more than you'd pay for a good mobile amp. First time I heard the X2s through the G109-A was really mind-blowing. Everything these headphones do--I mean everything--got better: bass, midrange, treble, soundstaging, dynamics, sense of "ease," all much better. So these amps both drove the X2s to more than adequate volume levels, but the desktop amp simply sounded better in every way.

ZMF Ori: This is a power-hungry planar. I tried it on all my desktop amps, and all drive it to adequate volume. But one, the Matrix HPA-1, simply didn't sound as good as the others. It has less rated power, and it just didn't have the muscle to drive the Ori, despite the volume being more than loud enough.

My experience has been: if you really want to hear any headphone--including efficient, low impedance designs that can be driven effectively by a cellphone--you should hear it through a well designed desktop amp.

PS: my new Brainwavz round earpads arrived. tomorrow I'll put them on the X2s and see how it sounds. should be interesting...

 

[Danger Mouse]

Thanks for the excellent feedback, really appreciate it (and everyone else's)

It feels like the headphones are struggling to be pushed, almost sounds like it's an effort to drive these even though they are 32ohms, yet my cheaper Sony DJ headphones at 40ohms punch a lot harder and louder, is it because these are labelled as 500mW, is that making them harder to drive as well as the ohm rating?

Sorry if that sounds stupid to some but I'm just learning for the first time

 

[Pharmaboy]

X2s vs HD650 vs HD600

I've owned the Fidelio X2 for about a year and a half. They're not perfect (nothing is), but I love how they sound and can't imagine being without them.

Today, thanks to the generosity of a Head-Fi pal (@jinxy245) I had the opportunity to hear a modded HD650 (loaned to him) and his stock HD600. The mods to the HD650 consisted of removing the mesh outer cap that covers the driver; also removing anti-resonance padding/material from each earcup; and placing a 3D-printed plastic outer cap (with numerous fairly large cutouts/perforations) on the outside of each earcup. My friend feels the mods removed the HD650's "Sennheiser veil," and may have improved its bass a bit. I tend to agree on both counts, after hearing both Sennheisers.

I spent more time with the modded HD650 than the HD600, but believe I can now describe how they sound compared to the X2s:

Tonality/Frequency: The X2s are well known to be bassy, slightly recessed in the midrange (though not to an objectionable degree IMO), and have a very slight sparkle in the treble, which may roll off high up (not sure about that).

By contrast, both Sennheisers were much less bassy. The bass that's there is very well rendered, tonally accurate and musical, but doesn't hit very hard in either headphone. The HD600 has somewhat more midrange and lower treble energy than the HD650. Both are clearly "voiced" differently than the X2s; they are sound more detailed and "flat," but also less relaxed and "friendly" than the X2s. The HD650 sounds very good on massed strings; accurate, yet not bright (that's a neat trick).

Resolution: No contest here…both Senns walk all over the X2s in resolution and how far into the instruments and singers you can hear. I readily imagine this modded HD650 being used to monitor studio recording/tracking, something I can't imagine with the X2s. On the other hand, the more diffuse sound of the X2s no doubt adds to their overall sense of relaxation. The X2s sound more organic and flow with music in a way the Senns can't.

Dynamics: It's a bit hard to compare this, since most of the dynamics in the X2s seems to come from power in the bass/lower midrange, and perhaps that bit of sheen in the lower treble (very little—these are not bright headphones). The X2s can sound rather exciting, particularly on music with strong bass/lower midrange content. They scale up and sound "big" when the music calls for it.

The HD600 has a little more "jump factor" in the midrange than the modded HD650; but I don't hear either headphone as especially dynamic. They're both too accurate & technical for that. This is not a criticism: their overall flatness (particularly the HD650, which is not bright, but allows one to hear analytically with ease) is enjoyable in its own way. Consider their accuracy and literal rendering of music to be an alternative form of dynamics...

Soundstaging: This is perhaps the biggest differentiator between the X2s and the Senns. I hear the X2s as having an expansive, relaxed soundstage—wide, pretty deep, but without that ultimate locked-on-place, holographic instrumental location. The soundstaging merges with the relaxed tonality to make the X2s sound a bit diffuse & calm. Nothing in the soundstage is spotlighted; one is enveloped by it, but not hyper-aware of it.

The Sennheisers each have more constrained soundstage (not as wide or deep as the X2s)—but what's there is crystal clear and firmly located. Particularly on the modded HD650, acoustic instruments are right there in front of one's ears…I can almost visualize the distance between different instruments, even the strings on a guitar strings. Their overall quality of accuracy extends to the soundstage as much as the frequency range.


Net/net: I still prefer the X2s because their relaxed, expansive sound suits my sonic preferences. I find them to be very musical and "friendly" to the listener: it's as if I'm hearing the music from row-15 of a music venue with very acoustics. However, I'm also very impressed by the modded HD650. It sounds nothing like any of my headphones; w/it, listening becomes more analytical without being bright (a new experience for me...).

It's very easy to see why so many people like the HD600 and HD650.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Thanks for the excellent feedback, really appreciate it (and everyone else's)

It feels like the headphones are struggling to be pushed, almost sounds like it's an effort to drive these even though they are 32ohms, yet my cheaper Sony DJ headphones at 40ohms punch a lot harder and louder, is it because these are labelled as 500mW, is that making them harder to drive as well as the ohm rating?

Sorry if that sounds stupid to some but I'm just learning for the first time

Headphones can differ in various ways that will make one sound louder than the other (from the same source/power level). Impedance is only one measure to consider.

• Headphones are also rated for "sensitivity" (sound output with 1 watt of power input). All other things being equal, a headphone rated for 100 dB sensitivity will sound quite a bit louder than one rated for 90 dB sensitivity (with each driven by identical amp power).
• Driver size in mm might have some effect on sound. Some dynamic headphones have 50 mm drivers (or even larger), while some have 40 mm. Not sure about this, but I suppose this could influence sound.
• And whether the design is closed-back vs open-back could change the listener's perception of volume. I generally hear open-backed headphones as being somehow "softer" (hard to find words for this) than closed-backs...possibly because closed-back designs create more pressure on the ears.

As for your headphones being labeled 500 mW, that's probably maximum power they can safely handle. In my experience, that has less to do with how loud they sound than how they're constructed, the gauge of wiring used, balanced vs single-ended cable, and so on.

 

[HungryPanda]

Then we have the Planar Magnetics and the Electrostatics

 

[peter123]

PS: my new Brainwavz round earpads arrived. tomorrow I'll put them on the X2s and see how it sounds. should be interesting...

I'm really looking forward to your impressions with the HM5 pads. I've got them as well but use them on the HE400i with great result. I really don't like to remove them though since I finally was able to make them fit perfectly and I'm afraid to break the plastic rings if I play too much with them.

 

[Pedro Oliveira]

X2s vs HD650 vs HD600

Tonality/Frequency: The X2s are well known to be bassy, slightly recessed in the midrange (though not to an objectionable degree IMO), and have a very slight sparkle in the treble, which may roll off high up (not sure about that).

Resolution: No contest here…both Senns walk all over the X2s in resolution and how far into the instruments and singers you can hear. I readily imagine this modded HD650 being used to monitor studio recording/tracking, something I can't imagine with the X2s. On the other hand, the more diffuse sound of the X2s no doubt adds to their overall sense of relaxation. The X2s sound more organic and flow with music in a way the Senns can't.

The HD600 has a little more "jump factor" in the midrange than the modded HD650; but I don't hear either headphone as especially dynamic. They're both too accurate & technical for that. This is not a criticism: their overall flatness (particularly the HD650, which is not bright, but allows one to hear analytically with ease) is enjoyable in its own way. Consider their accuracy and literal rendering of music to be an alternative form of dynamics...

Soundstaging: This is perhaps the biggest differentiator between the X2s and the Senns. I hear the X2s as having an expansive, relaxed soundstage—wide, pretty deep, but without that ultimate locked-on-place, holographic instrumental location. The soundstaging merges with the relaxed tonality to make the X2s sound a bit diffuse & calm. Nothing in the soundstage is spotlighted; one is enveloped by it, but not hyper-aware of it.

The Sennheisers each have more constrained soundstage (not as wide or deep as the X2s)—but what's there is crystal clear and firmly located. Particularly on the modded HD650, acoustic instruments are right there in front of one's ears…I can almost visualize the distance between different instruments, even the strings on a guitar strings. Their overall quality of accuracy extends to the soundstage as much as the frequency range.


Net/net: I still prefer the X2s because their relaxed, expansive sound suits my sonic preferences. I find them to be very musical and "friendly" to the listener: it's as if I'm hearing the music from row-15 of a music venue with very acoustics. However, I'm also very impressed by the modded HD650. It sounds nothing like any of my headphones; w/it, listening becomes more analytical without being bright (a new experience for me...).

It's very easy to see why so many people like the HD600 and HD650.

Thank you very very much for your impressions.

Yesterday i was A´nB-ing with the x2's and the hd600s for about 2 hours and my impressions are spot on with you impressions, specially when it cames to the resolution and soundstage. To my ear the x2's do indeed spund more diffuse. The x2 are more fun and overall a more easy lsiten but when comparing both, despite sounding flatter, the hd600 is clearly ahead in terms of resolution. Not that the x2 is bad but for example strings and other deal fear much more palpable and pop out more on the hd600. This same details are also on the x2's but in a minor way because the sound is a bit more influenced by the big bass response and therefore the x2's do not sound as clear. Also i do believe the treble indeed does roll off a bit on the x2's. Despite sounding engaging in fun, it is noticeable sometimes in trance or metal that you want the x2's highs to extend a little bit more but the feel a bit constrained. They still are clear and engaging but its like something is holding them back. The hd600 has not such an engaging sound but their highs and mids while not being bright, they do extend a bit more. If the hd600's had the bass of the x2's i would be in heaven....

In terms of soundstage the x2's do indeed sound more expansive but it is much eaier to perceive detail and position on the hd600. In terms of pure technicality, clarity and resolution i do believe the hd600's are one step ahead of the x2's.... but they also more boring of course....

A few questions though....

can you specify a bit more on the hd600's vs 650s? the 650's were a older pair or they had silver drivers already? Despite both sounding flatter, wich to you was more fun and closer to the x2's sound (more engaging, specially for more energetic styles)? The hd650 had much more bass and bass impact than the hd600's? How are the hd650's highs and mids compared to the hd600's?

Oh and by the way, what did the mod do to the sound exactly?


Cheers...

 

[Pharmaboy]

Nope, I just removed the stocks and saved those, stretched the HM5 pads around the driver housing itself, and cut a hole for the 3.5mm jack. See pics below.

, I have to give you credit--the idea of putting Brainwavz pads on X2s in this manner never even occurred to me, I just managed to put on my brand-new Brainwavz round pads (in a very snazzy dark red/maroon color). They went on rather easily, though cutting the little hole for the cable jack was real bitch.

Really an inspired idea, and your pictures helped so much.

Another thing that helped a lot is the generous lip/edge of pleather than Brainwavz puts around the back of these headphones (at least as much as the HM5s have). Sometimes it's hard to jam all that excess fabric in the little earpads slot that runs around most headphones. But here there is no slot, I'm just wrapping all that material around the earcup itself. And the Brainwavz are just perfect for that.

Will do some listening tonight. But for now, I'm wiping the sweat off my brow and admiring the new "pleather look" of my X2s...these suckers are handsome!

 

[Pharmaboy]

Thank you very very much for your impressions.

Yesterday i was A´nB-ing with the x2's and the hd600s for about 2 hours and my impressions are spot on with you impressions, specially when it cames to the resolution and soundstage. To my ear the x2's do indeed spund more diffuse. The x2 are more fun and overall a more easy lsiten but when comparing both, despite sounding flatter, the hd600 is clearly ahead in terms of resolution. Not that the x2 is bad but for example strings and other deal fear much more palpable and pop out more on the hd600. This same details are also on the x2's but in a minor way because the sound is a bit more influenced by the big bass response and therefore the x2's do not sound as clear. Also i do believe the treble indeed does roll off a bit on the x2's. Despite sounding engaging in fun, it is noticeable sometimes in trance or metal that you want the x2's highs to extend a little bit more but the feel a bit constrained. They still are clear and engaging but its like something is holding them back. The hd600 has not such an engaging sound but their highs and mids while not being bright, they do extend a bit more. If the hd600's had the bass of the x2's i would be in heaven....

In terms of soundstage the x2's do indeed sound more expansive but it is much eaier to perceive detail and position on the hd600. In terms of pure technicality, clarity and resolution i do believe the hd600's are one step ahead of the x2's.... but they also more boring of course....

A few questions though....

can you specify a bit more on the hd600's vs 650s? the 650's were a older pair or they had silver drivers already? Despite both sounding flatter, wich to you was more fun and closer to the x2's sound (more engaging, specially for more energetic styles)? The hd650 had much more bass and bass impact than the hd600's? How are the hd650's highs and mids compared to the hd600's?

Oh and by the way, what did the mod do to the sound exactly?


Cheers...

In terms of soundtage yes the x2'

You're welcome!

But it's going to be difficult to say much about the differences in sound between the HD600 (stock) vs HD650 (modded)--I'd never heard any Sennheiser HPs previously, and so don't know how a stock HD650 sounds.

The 650s have silver drivers, so I guess they're not older. The owner did 4 things as part of the mod:

1. Removed the fabric liner from back of the stock earpads (which remain on the modded headphone). So when you look into the center of the earpad, you see the driver/driver housing (a very attractive silver/modern look, I must say);
2. Removed the metal/mesh outside cap from each earcup (so again, when you look at the outside of the earcup, you see parts of the driver housing(
3. My friend told me the owner also removed any padding/fabric that had been inside each earcup (apparently used for resonance control)--though it's 2nd hand information and I couldn't see for myself.
4. Finally, the owner used a 3D-printer to cut a perfectly sized spacer/insert (out of plastic that seemed to be ~1/8", or 2mm thick). He stuck this oval spacer onto the outward facing surface of the driver housing using blu-tack (which I couldn't see). The spacer/insert is cleverly designed, with relief holes cut in nice patterns, mostly in the middle 2" x 2.5" (approx) portion. So the headphones remain fully open-back.

I'd read many review & user comments about both the HD600 & HD650. Based on that, I was prepared to hear more upper midrange & treble warmth, and possibly resonance, in the HD650 vs HD600. But the mod apparently really changed the HD650. It didn't sound warm, particularly. But it also didn't sound bright at all. Its soundstage sounded very similar to the HD600 (both have somewhat narrow, but extremely focused placement of instruments in space), But the HD650 simply sounded clearer, flatter, more detailed (in a non-bright way) than the HD600.

My friend owns the HD600, and he warmed me that it sounds a bit "shouty" in the midrange. He's right--the midrange (and a little of the lower treble) seems slightly elevated, making notes jump at your ears a bit more. The midrange sounded a bit more resonant/echo-ey to me, as well.

Despite the very strong "family resemblance" in voicing of these 2 Sennheisers, the modded HD650 just did "the technicalities" in a more calm, accurate, thorough way. Until yesterday, I'd never heard a headphone (any component, really) that had so much clear detail, yet wasn't bright. So I guess in a sense, the modded HD650 remains slightly "warm" by comparison to the stock HD600--but IMO that's only because the HD650 is not slightly bright & "shouty" in the midrange, while the HD600 is both.

As far as bass, there may have been a bit more in the modded HD650; if so, it's a slight difference. Both had bass that sounded clear & accurate (all the notes were there); but there was no sub-bass to speak of, and the "reach" of the bass in each HP (ie, how far down they go in frequency) was less than other headphones I have, including the X2s.

The only really subjective criticism I would make of both Sennheisers is that they're not "fun" headphones. They place accuracy and resolution above sheer musical enjoyment. But it's a new experience for me to really admire a headphone like that (the modded HD650) based on its honesty and focussed, straight ahead rendition of tonality and soundstaging.

The HD600 does many things very well, but it left me feeling kind of "eh," at least partly because the modded HD650 impressed me so much. It had so much focus and resolution w/o exaggerating anything. A very high-quality sound, also very different from all my own headphones, when (like the X2s), tend to have rich bass/lower midrange and more expansive imaging.

And honestly, both Sennheisers are so different from the X2s; there's almost no similarity in sound. The X2s are 100% fun, relaxing, somewhat diffuse, perfectly musical. But they can't keep up with the resolution of both Senns (especially the HD650, which is very technically accomplished). Luckily, though, those things don't matter as much to me as musicality and a relaxed sound.

My friend was kind enough to leave his ZMF Eikon w/me overnight (I've heard it twice before), so I got to hear that rather magnificent headphone at length last night. And that is a headphone that let's you have it ALL:

• More resolution than I've ever heard from any headphone except possibly the modded HD650
• The best soundstaging I've ever heard
• The best bass I've ever heard
• And a TON of FUN. It was very hard to take those HPs off my head.
• They do massed strings and/or vocals beautifully (classical); acoustic jazz just perfectly; and they rock out like crazy if you give them well-recorded popular music, R&B, world music, whatever else.

I'm very impressed by the Eikon. Now I absolutely have to hear the other top ZMF design, the Atticus.

So I got to hear 2 rather amazing headphones yesterday. And tonight, I'll hear the X2s with the new Brainwavz round earpads installed. It would be kind of a miracle if the sound was improved in any way, without causing degradation of this or that sonic quality that I like about these headphones...

 

[Pedro Oliveira]

You're welcome!

But it's going to be difficult to say much about the differences in sound between the HD600 (stock) vs HD650 (modded)--I'd never heard any Sennheiser HPs previously, and so don't know how a stock HD650 sounds.

The 650s have silver drivers, so I guess they're not older. The owner did 4 things as part of the mod:

1. Removed the fabric liner from back of the stock earpads (which remain on the modded headphone). So when you look into the center of the earpad, you see the driver/driver housing (a very attractive silver/modern look, I must say);
2. Removed the metal/mesh outside cap from each earcup (so again, when you look at the outside of the earcup, you see parts of the driver housing(
3. My friend told me the owner also removed any padding/fabric that had been inside each earcup (apparently used for resonance control)--though it's 2nd hand information and I couldn't see for myself.
4. Finally, the owner used a 3D-printer to cut a perfectly sized spacer/insert (out of plastic that seemed to be ~1/8", or 2mm thick). He stuck this oval spacer onto the outward facing surface of the driver housing using blu-tack (which I couldn't see). The spacer/insert is cleverly designed, with relief holes cut in nice patterns, mostly in the middle 2" x 2.5" (approx) portion. So the headphones remain fully open-back.

I'd read many review & user comments about both the HD600 & HD650. Based on that, I was prepared to hear more upper midrange & treble warmth, and possibly resonance, in the HD650 vs HD600. But the mod apparently really changed the HD650. It didn't sound warm, particularly. But it also didn't sound bright at all. Its soundstage sounded very similar to the HD600 (both have somewhat narrow, but extremely focused placement of instruments in space), But the HD650 simply sounded clearer, flatter, more detailed (in a non-bright way) than the HD600.

My friend owns the HD600, and he warmed me that it sounds a bit "shouty" in the midrange. He's right--the midrange (and a little of the lower treble) seems slightly elevated, making notes jump at your ears a bit more. The midrange sounded a bit more resonant/echo-ey to me, as well.

Despite the very strong "family resemblance" in voicing of these 2 Sennheisers, the modded HD650 just did "the technicalities" in a more calm, accurate, thorough way. Until yesterday, I'd never heard a headphone (any component, really) that had so much clear detail, yet wasn't bright. So I guess in a sense, the modded HD650 remains slightly "warm" by comparison to the stock HD600--but IMO that's only because the HD650 is not slightly bright & "shouty" in the midrange, while the HD600 is both.

As far as bass, there may have been a bit more in the modded HD650; if so, it's a slight difference. Both had bass that sounded clear & accurate (all the notes were there); but there was no sub-bass to speak of, and the "reach" of the bass in each HP (ie, how far down they go in frequency) was less than other headphones I have, including the X2s.

The only really subjective criticism I would make of both Sennheisers is that they're not "fun" headphones. They place accuracy and resolution above sheer musical enjoyment. But it's a new experience for me to really admire a headphone like that (the modded HD650) based on its honesty and focussed, straight ahead rendition of tonality and soundstaging.

The HD600 does many things very well, but it left me feeling kind of "eh," at least partly because the modded HD650 impressed me so much. It had so much focus and resolution w/o exaggerating anything. A very high-quality sound, also very different from all my own headphones, when (like the X2s), tend to have rich bass/lower midrange and more expansive imaging.

And honestly, both Sennheisers are so different from the X2s; there's almost no similarity in sound. The X2s are 100% fun, relaxing, somewhat diffuse, perfectly musical. But they can't keep up with the resolution of both Senns (especially the HD650, which is very technically accomplished). Luckily, though, those things don't matter as much to me as musicality and a relaxed sound.

My friend was kind enough to leave his ZMF Eikon w/me overnight (I've heard it twice before), so I got to hear that rather magnificent headphone at length last night. And that is a headphone that let's you have it ALL:

• More resolution than I've ever heard from any headphone except possibly the modded HD650
• The best soundstaging I've ever heard
• The best bass I've ever heard
• And a TON of FUN. It was very hard to take those HPs off my head.
• They do massed strings and/or vocals beautifully (classical); acoustic jazz just perfectly; and they rock out like crazy if you give them well-recorded popular music, R&B, world music, whatever else.

I'm very impressed by the Eikon. Now I absolutely have to hear the other top ZMF design, the Atticus.

So I got to hear 2 rather amazing headphones yesterday. And tonight, I'll hear the X2s with the new Brainwavz round earpads installed. It would be kind of a miracle if the sound was improved in any way, without causing degradation of this or that sonic quality that I like about these headphones...

Seems to me that the hd650 was modded to make the highs shine a bit more and avoid warmness or veilling. Usually when comparing both, people seem to agree that the hd650 is slightly bassier than the 600 but at the smae time is more tamed in the highs.
But would you say the hd600 was very far behind the modded 650? If the modded 650 sounds more airy and if the drivers are fully exposed as you say its bass must have been reduced as well compared to the original 650.

I really would like to test the hd650..... but at the same time i do not want to..... its really hard to find a used one in Portugalso i would have to buy them new from amazon at 320 euros (or 269 on black fridays in some shops)..... i payed 139 for the x2's, 125 for my pair of mint condition hd600's.... i think i would end up disappointed if i payed 320 euros for the hd650. i believe they might please me more than the 650 since they are a bit bassier, but most of the opinion seem to agree that the 600 and 650 are more similar than different. I think i will only try the hd650's if i get a deal like the one i got for my 600's or if by any miracle a store make any kind of special discount that puts them close to 200 euros.

For me the perfect headphone would be a engaging sound like the on the x2, hd25, momentum, m50x, but with similar resolution to the hd600.... any suggestions?

Dont get me wrong. the x2, for my taste are still the best open headphone i ever tried. I can listen to trance or metal on the hd600 but it wont be as fun of course.... but i can´t lie. In terms of resolution the hd600 is a better headphone and there is something in the x2's treble that makes them be fun but at the same time makes them hold their horses and keep things somewhat laidback.... don't know if burn in will make this a bit better (30 hours now) but i doubt it will improve that much.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Seems to me that the hd650 was modded to make the highs shine a bit more and avoid warmness or veilling. Usually when comparing both, people seem to agree that the hd650 is slightly bassier than the 600 but at the smae time is more tamed in the highs.
But would you say the hd600 was very far behind the modded 650? If the modded 650 sounds more airy and if the drivers are fully exposed as you say its bass must have been reduced as well compared to the original 650.

I really would like to test the hd650..... but at the same time i do not want to..... its really hard to find a used one in Portugalso i would have to buy them new from amazon at 320 euros (or 269 on black fridays in some shops)..... i payed 139 for the x2's, 125 for my pair of mint condition hd600's.... i think i would end up disappointed if i payed 320 euros for the hd650. i believe they might please me more than the 650 since they are a bit bassier, but most of the opinion seem to agree that the 600 and 650 are more similar than different. I think i will only try the hd650's if i get a deal like the one i got for my 600's or if by any miracle a store make any kind of special discount that puts them close to 200 euros.

For me the perfect headphone would be a engaging sound like the on the x2, hd25, momentum, m50x, but with similar resolution to the hd600.... any suggestions?

Dont get me wrong. the x2, for my taste are still the best open headphone i ever tried. I can listen to trance or metal on the hd600 but it wont be as fun of course.... but i can´t lie. In terms of resolution the hd600 is a better headphone and there is something in the x2's treble that makes them be fun but at the same time makes them hold their horses and keep things somewhat laidback.... don't know if burn in will make this a bit better (30 hours now) but i doubt it will improve that much.

The HD600 is not far behind the modded HD650. But possibly because of the mods, the HD650 is IMO clearly better headphones. It doesn't sound any more "airy" than the HD600--but it does have greater focus, resolution, accuracy, and freedom from boominess/resonance.

If I owned either a 600 or a 650, I'd be pleading for this mod.

By the way, I'm no expert in used 650s...but you can get a new one on Massdrop for $200 + shipping: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-sennheiser-hd6xx

Even if they screw you on shipping (ie, charge $50+ for EU) it's still a great deal.

I just searched my favorite used gear site, Hifishark.com for HD650, and there are numerous "hits," some of which are in EU:
https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=HD650

PS: I doubt there is one "perfect" headphone. All I know is...if you want to edge a little closer to perfection, it really costs:
-- new ZMF Eikon (~1300 USD) or used (~900-1,050 USD)
-- new Beyerdynamic Amiron Home (never heard it, but said to be quite good) (~$700 USD)
-- E MU Teak -- I have a pair on order ($530 USD)

and so on. but human nature being what it is, even if you got one of these more costly HPs, you'd probably still want 1-2 others "for special occasions" (!)

 

[Pharmaboy]

Seems to me that the hd650 was modded to make the highs shine a bit more and avoid warmness or veilling. Usually when comparing both, people seem to agree that the hd650 is slightly bassier than the 600 but at the smae time is more tamed in the highs.
But would you say the hd600 was very far behind the modded 650? If the modded 650 sounds more airy and if the drivers are fully exposed as you say its bass must have been reduced as well compared to the original 650.

I really would like to test the hd650..... but at the same time i do not want to..... its really hard to find a used one in Portugalso i would have to buy them new from amazon at 320 euros (or 269 on black fridays in some shops)..... i payed 139 for the x2's, 125 for my pair of mint condition hd600's.... i think i would end up disappointed if i payed 320 euros for the hd650. i believe they might please me more than the 650 since they are a bit bassier, but most of the opinion seem to agree that the 600 and 650 are more similar than different. I think i will only try the hd650's if i get a deal like the one i got for my 600's or if by any miracle a store make any kind of special discount that puts them close to 200 euros.

For me the perfect headphone would be a engaging sound like the on the x2, hd25, momentum, m50x, but with similar resolution to the hd600.... any suggestions?

Dont get me wrong. the x2, for my taste are still the best open headphone i ever tried. I can listen to trance or metal on the hd600 but it wont be as fun of course.... but i can´t lie. In terms of resolution the hd600 is a better headphone and there is something in the x2's treble that makes them be fun but at the same time makes them hold their horses and keep things somewhat laidback.... don't know if burn in will make this a bit better (30 hours now) but i doubt it will improve that much.

Forgot to mention in post above that the experience of hearing the 2 Sennheisers yesterday makes me curious how a stock HD650 sounds. The modded HD650 impressed me a lot. Maybe it is "warm," though what I heard was a lack of glare & brightness, more than overt "warmth" in its presentation. But it sounded plenty good enough on multiple levels to impress me...also to not set off my "watch out--bright headphone! alarm.

I know my own sonic tastes quite well (ie, I'm very averse to elevated treble/upper midrange; LOVE deep/strong bass, though am not a "basshead"; also love good soundstaging), if I ever got a Senn, it would be a 650, based on everything I've read.

 

[OldDude04]

, I have to give you credit--the idea of putting Brainwavz pads on X2s in this manner never even occurred to me, I just managed to put on my brand-new Brainwavz round pads (in a very snazzy dark red/maroon color). They went on rather easily, though cutting the little hole for the cable jack was real bitch.

Really an inspired idea, and your pictures helped so much.

Another thing that helped a lot is the generous lip/edge of pleather than Brainwavz puts around the back of these headphones (at least as much as the HM5s have). Sometimes it's hard to jam all that excess fabric in the little earpads slot that runs around most headphones. But here there is no slot, I'm just wrapping all that material around the earcup itself. And the Brainwavz are just perfect for that.

Will do some listening tonight. But for now, I'm wiping the sweat off my brow and admiring the new "pleather look" of my X2s...these suckers are handsome!

Nice. Be sure and post some pics if you can. I'd be curious to see how they look compared to the oval HM5 pads.


EDIT: Woohoo, just noticed this was my 1000th post. Do I get a cookie or something now? Lol.

 

[peter123]

If you find the treble of the X2's too rolled off the HD650 definitely won't be for you.

Also the extra bass on the HD650 compared to the HD600 is mostly midbass and the character is quite bloomy giving them the extra warmth and richness. The bass quality on the X2's are better to ly ears.

Of course there's plenty of fun headphones with great resolution,. To me both the HE560 and HD700 fit that description, might be something that completely different for you though.....