[derbigpr]

Quote:

after having read so many positive reviews, i couldn't believe how disappointed i was and hated the X1.

i knew it woud be bass-tilted, laid-back and warm, but most reviewers said that the X1 had also detailed highs and enjoyable mids.
what i was hearing out of the box was basically a heavy rhythm section with a very nice wide soundstage and good rumble.
but where was the rest of the band? the singer? i felt like missing half of the music.
so much darkness... i asked myself: did darth vader design the X1?
 
so i changed the cable (OFC 99.99% low impedance)...
gave them 40 hours of break-in...
i cut the throat of a chicken and lit some incense...
did some katas... prayed...
...but no results

"brain burn-in" did not work either

.

and so i sold them , what else? 

oh well... the X1 is probably an excellent headphone, but it just doesn't suit my tastes at all.

 
 
What was your source and amp?

 

[ethan7000]

Frequency response is fairly even on the X1, but the bass emphasis can't be denied.  Nobody looking for neutral cans should be considering the X1.

 

[derbigpr]

Quote:

Frequency response is fairly even on the X1, but the bass emphasis can't be denied.  Nobody looking for neutral cans should be considering the X1.

 
 
Maybe you're correct, because 95% of people dont know what neutral means when it comes to headphones, and usually consider bass light, bright headphones neutral, and those that sound neutral, and real, with proper timbre, are considered dark, veiled or bass heavy.

 

[Hairspray]

I don't trust graphs and specs anymore.
And flatness is an utopia, its a goal not a fact.
And i did not plug the X1 into crap (O2+ODAC).
(btw, the X1 is marketed as an easy to drive HP).

 

[ethan7000]

Quote:

 
 
Maybe you're correct, because 95% of people dont know what neutral means when it comes to headphones, and usually consider bass light, bright headphones neutral, and those that sound neutral, and real, with proper timbre, are considered dark, veiled or bass heavy.

I'm sure opinions vary pretty wildly.  I know when I was producing and mixing music years ago, the HD 580 was THE neutral can for mixing. Well, it did a great job, but it really did not have any sub bass at all and for that reason I couldn't fully agree with that designation.  Neutral to me would be even sounding across all frequencies (no added emphasis), and if your headphones can't even produce some frequencies then that doesn't work.  It showed up in my tracks when they were listened to with a subwoofer - the sub bass was all over the place and I had no idea because of the 580's. So anyway, what are neutral cans today?  Well nothing's fully neutral, there are only headphones that approach neutrality.

 

[takato14]

I hope you're not serious. The X1 is good but it's not neutral or "flat" at all.

Well...have a look.

http://en.goldenears.net/17992

There's few headphones out there with such an even frequency response.  And it scored +4 in transparency and +4 in high resolution, and if you follow goldenears, which is to my experience with headphones they test by far the most precise site out there as far as subjective evaluation of the sound goes, you know thats a rare thing only a few high end headphones receive.

Not sure where the hell you're getting that "golden ears is the most precise site" from, perhaps from out of your ass? Golden ears "fixes" their graphs to make them easier to read by removing certain peaks and recessions, thus they are completely unusable. Use the graphs from Tyll at inner fidelity.

The frequency response of the X1 is very smooth. However, being "flat" is completely different. The LCD-2 has a flat response. The X1 does not. Flat means what it says, the graph looks flat on the measurement sheets. "Neutral" is what most people think of when they're saying flat, but that's just not correct. Flat is neutral for SPEAKERS, not headphones.

 

[derbigpr]

Quote:

Not sure where the hell you're getting that "golden ears is the most precise site" from, perhaps from out of your ass? Golden ears "fixes" their graphs to make them easier to read by removing certain peaks and recessions, thus they are completely unusable. Use the graphs from Tyll at inner fidelity.

The frequency response of the X1 is very smooth. However, being "flat" is completely different. The LCD-2 has a flat response. The X1 does not. Flat means what it says, the graph looks flat on the measurement sheets. "Neutral" is what most people think of when they're saying flat, but that's just not correct. Flat is neutral for SPEAKERS, not headphones.

 
 
They dont fix their graphs, they only show you ONE graph of a headphone when it was equalized by them, but the rest of the graphs are from a stock headphone and identical pretty much to graphs you can find on other sites. And no, I dont get my opinion out of my ass, but out of my ears. I listened to a lot of headphones and own a lot of them, and their evaluation and opinion is almost always very similar to my own, unlike on head-fi on which I almost always get the wrong idea of a how a headphone sounds from reading reviews.  The grades in charts at the bottom of each headphone page on goldenear, where they subjectively judge the headphone performance is pretty much identical to how I would grade them. It helped me buy 3 headphones so far that sounded almost exactly as I expected them to sound, which tells me their evaluation is much more precise than any 5 page long review (read advertisement) I've so far read on most other sites.
 
"Flat is neutral for SPEAKERS, not headphones."   Thats what I said, a flat frequency response on headphones, even if it was a perfectly level straight line from 20 to 20000 hz, would not sound neutral, it would sound bass light and bright.  What sounds neutral on headphones, and when I say neutral I mean as it does in person, is slightly tilted towards the "warm" frequency response. 

 

[takato14]

Quote:

Quote:

Not sure where the hell you're getting that "golden ears is the most precise site" from, perhaps from out of your ass? Golden ears "fixes" their graphs to make them easier to read by removing certain peaks and recessions, thus they are completely unusable. Use the graphs from Tyll at inner fidelity.

The frequency response of the X1 is very smooth. However, being "flat" is completely different. The LCD-2 has a flat response. The X1 does not. Flat means what it says, the graph looks flat on the measurement sheets. "Neutral" is what most people think of when they're saying flat, but that's just not correct. Flat is neutral for SPEAKERS, not headphones.

 
 
They dont fix their graphs, they only show you ONE graph of a headphone when it was equalized by them, but the rest of the graphs are from a stock headphone and identical pretty much to graphs you can find on other sites. And no, I dont get my opinion out of my ass, but out of my ears. I listened to a lot of headphones and own a lot of them, and their evaluation and opinion is almost always very similar to my own, unlike on head-fi on which I almost always get the wrong idea of a how a headphone sounds from reading reviews.  The grades in charts at the bottom of each headphone page on goldenear, where they subjectively judge the headphone performance is pretty much identical to how I would grade them. It helped me buy 3 headphones so far that sounded almost exactly as I expected them to sound, which tells me their evaluation is much more precise than any 5 page long review (read advertisement) I've so far read on most other sites.
 
"Flat is neutral for SPEAKERS, not headphones."   Thats what I said, a flat frequency response on headphones, even if it was a perfectly level straight line from 20 to 20000 hz, would not sound neutral, it would sound bass light and bright.  What sounds neutral on headphones, and when I say neutral I mean as it does in person, is slightly tilted towards the "warm" frequency response. 

Even if it wasn't GoldenEars being questioned, this statement right here completely invaluates any credibility you could've had. Measurement systems are all radically different from each other thus making it impossible to compare measurements from different systems.
 
Regardless, I think this thread is done, unless the OP has any more questions about getting the X1 to its max. 

 

[derbigpr]

Quote:

Even if it wasn't GoldenEars being questioned, this statement right here completely invaluates any credibility you could've had. Measurement systems are all radically different from each other thus making it impossible to compare measurements from different systems.
 
Regardless, I think this thread is done, unless the OP has any more questions about getting the X1 to its max. 

 
 
Try thinking after reading something, instead of coming to such a stupid conclusion. Of course not all measurements are going to be completely identical down to the last dB, I didn't say that. Different amps, dacs, mics, isolation chambers, dummy heads, etc. are used by each person who measures, a headphone position varies, some earpads are more compressed with use than others, air pressure, humidity, temperature, etc. all varies and has a slight effect on the measurement. To anyone with a hint of common sense that is obvious, but you're clearly trying to avoid common sense here just to prove your point.
 
What is true trough, and what I did say is that if you look at graphs of X1 at goldenears, innerfidelity or where ever else, its obvious they're from the same headphone.  Both graphs show pretty much an identical response. Both have a boost at around 70 hz, both are pretty much a flat line (1 db+-) going down slowly towards the highs, both graphs have a slight peak at 9-10 khz. And those three features are the key here. The tiny differences in between are minute and effected by different measurement equipment and situation, but the measurements are obviously almost identical and clearly show graphs from the same headphone. The only major difference is a 5 db dip in the goldenear graph around 6-7 khz, which is present in many of their measurements and I assume has something to do with their gear, but even if it doesn't, its still a small thing relatively speaking. Other than that,  you were simply wrong in saying that goldenears eq's their headphones and removes peaks from measurements to make the graphs easier to read (why they would do that....I dont know...).
 
Anyway, your opinion is completely irrelevant to me here, since the only opinion that has any real value to me is MY OWN. I like to hear opinions of other people, but in the end, when I listen to a headphone, what ANYONE else thinks about it is totally irrelevant. What sounds good to me, sounds good to me, end of it. My opinion on a headphone, and what I like / hate about it is my thing, it just happens that what I like / hate, or notice about a headphone,  they notice it on the goldenears as well. That means that they have a similar "ear" to mine, which I've proven to myself 3 times, so I trust their reviews more than reviews on let's say head-fi, headroom or innerfiedilty, because my opinion usually differs from the conclusions on these sites. So no, I don't pull that out of my ass, as you said.

 

[Sound Quest]

Gents. We're bickering over a pair of headphones here, not a pair of (things worth debating about).
 
The X1's are one of those headphones that you'll either love or hate. If you're looking for sheer fun, then look no further. If you're looking for a sound that's entirely neutral and honest, then I wouldn't bother with these.

 

[takato14]

Quote:

Gents. We're bickering over a pair of headphones here, not a pair of (things worth debating about).
 
The X1's are one of those headphones that you'll either love or hate. If you're looking for sheer fun, then look no further. If you're looking for a sound that's entirely neutral and honest, then I wouldn't bother with these.

And just who are you to decide what's worth bickering about, kind sir? Need I initiate fisticuffs?
 
But no, seriously, I'm far less lighthearted about this hobby than most, just as I am with all of my hobbies. Causing problems is not my intention. 

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by derbigpr /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
"Flat is neutral for SPEAKERS, not headphones."   Thats what I said, a flat frequency response on headphones, even if it was a perfectly level straight line from 20 to 20000 hz, would not sound neutral, it would sound bass light and bright.  What sounds neutral on headphones, and when I say neutral I mean as it does in person, is slightly tilted towards the "warm" frequency response. 

 
I would tend to agree with this....if trying to simulate the sound of loudspeakers delivery of sound through space in a room.
 
Quote:

 
The X1's are one of those headphones that you'll either love or hate. If you're looking for sheer fun, then look no further. If you're looking for a sound that's entirely neutral and honest, then I wouldn't bother with these.

 
Nonsense...

 

[Ferrosa]

Quote:

after having read so many positive reviews, i couldn't believe how disappointed i was and hated the X1.

i knew it woud be bass-tilted, laid-back and warm, but most reviewers said that the X1 had also detailed highs and enjoyable mids.
what i was hearing out of the box was basically a heavy rhythm section with a very nice wide soundstage and good rumble.
but where was the rest of the band? the singer? i felt like missing half of the music.
so much darkness... i asked myself: did darth vader design the X1?
 
so i changed the cable (OFC 99.99% low impedance)...
gave them 40 hours of break-in...
i cut the throat of a chicken and lit some incense...
did some katas... prayed...
...but no results

"brain burn-in" did not work either

.

and so i sold them , what else? 

oh well... the X1 is probably an excellent headphone, but it just doesn't suit my tastes at all.

I tried three cables, several sources and the sound was always harsh and grainy.
The DT770 LE is so clear and 3d sound. Gonna keep the 770 and sell x1.

 

[Hairspray]

What sounds neutral on headphones, and when I say neutral I mean as it does in person, is slightly tilted towards the "warm" frequency response. 

Really?! Where does this statement come from?

 

[ethan7000]

Really?! Where does this statement come from?

Look at frequency graphs. Even headphones considered the most neutral will not be flat on the graphs. There has to be some rolloff of the treble or it would sound extremely bright to our ears.