olblueyez
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Would it be a better idea to install any custom upgrades (memory or drives) after the purchase? Mac doesnt have great prices on that stuff. These parts are not proprietary right?
PC to Mac: My Not-So-Genius Switch
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noremedy
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You can install custom upgrades yourself, with non-apple equipment if that is what you are referring to. - I chose not to do it, since im not a tech geek, and didn't want to risk it. My dad did it on his brand new macbook just fine however.
SACD-Man
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The main reason why I do have a MAC is for imaging and sound. I have compared many PC models and the MacBook Pro seems to sound better to me than any other PC that I have tested. Now I'm sure you can find a better sound card combo that will be more pleasing, however out of the box, the optical line out does sound great.
There are several compelling arguments for which system is "better". It's not up to me to decide if this is better for you. However it certainly fits my needs. Please remember that advance MAC users are more likely Linux users which I am.
BTW - I use bootcamp when working, then switch to MAC for personal use. My XP (never vista) runs better then my tricked out Dell. Using Bootcamp is simple and seems to do the trick for me...
It might not be for you and that why they make many platforms. And of course there are limitations. Vista for example has so many limitations and that's why I refuse to upgrade from XP. I will say this, there are many more ways to customize a PC in comparison to a MAC.
| Originally Posted by bangraman /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which is interesting, since what's inside is basically a bog standard low-end soundcard with the same (or in some cases even worse) electronics between the codec and the sockets certainly in terms of analog output as any number of other notebooks. (digital isn't actually that hot either, but that's another argument and really not that important as it *is* quite convenient) One aspect of Mac 'fanboyism' is that many people imbue Apple gear with superior function for no logically discernible reason. I see it everywhere since I started using them again in earnest. There are situations in which Apple OS or hardware can clearly work better. Most of these situations however, if I were to be a little brutal, involves users who don't quite know what they're doing but you need them to be productive. For me Linux is an OS nerding too far, and I'm not a huge hardware nerd in that if I'm going to have a high-performance system, etc I'm going to get someone else to build it: But I do absolutely believe in nerding out on software, to search out and to buy what really works best for me. I know for many people the three or four-digit spend ends with the computer: Not for me. And in that respect while I find the uniform elegance of Apple solutions beguiling, in comparison to Windows in general I find it too limiting in terms of the applications I can run on it: There is basically everyone else's slightly dumbed-down, easy to use, good enough way to do it... or no way. And while some of those solutions may even be de facto industry standards, I ended up being surprised by how often this was true even in quite mainstream areas once I started looking. As a result there are a limited number of things I do which I like to keep to Apple but interestingly, anything to do with Audio is not... and my media setup is now back to being predominantly Windows. And Jude, your experiences aren't unique. That's the other problem... the actual build quality of Apple equipment, not just the surface look & feel which they are masters of. The two issues for me ended up also undermining the theoretical advantage of a Boot Campable Mac (which isn't actually that convenient or compatible, and virtualisation isn't for everyone who has 'heavy lifting' Windows uses). As much as I depend on my iPods, I have to say I have a more ambivalent relationship with the Macs. |
The main reason why I do have a MAC is for imaging and sound. I have compared many PC models and the MacBook Pro seems to sound better to me than any other PC that I have tested. Now I'm sure you can find a better sound card combo that will be more pleasing, however out of the box, the optical line out does sound great.
There are several compelling arguments for which system is "better". It's not up to me to decide if this is better for you. However it certainly fits my needs. Please remember that advance MAC users are more likely Linux users which I am.
BTW - I use bootcamp when working, then switch to MAC for personal use. My XP (never vista) runs better then my tricked out Dell. Using Bootcamp is simple and seems to do the trick for me...
It might not be for you and that why they make many platforms. And of course there are limitations. Vista for example has so many limitations and that's why I refuse to upgrade from XP. I will say this, there are many more ways to customize a PC in comparison to a MAC.
Kirosia
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If you have one of the newer models, I'd be wary: 'Unibody' MacBook users report lockups with third-party RAM
I'm not sure if the issue has been completely fixed yet.
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Vaios are probably one of the best notebook brands, but they're also among the most expensive. You're paying a HEAVY premium for the quality.
| Would it be a better idea to install any custom upgrades (memory or drives) after the purchase? Mac doesnt have great prices on that stuff. These parts are not proprietary right? |
If you have one of the newer models, I'd be wary: 'Unibody' MacBook users report lockups with third-party RAM
I'm not sure if the issue has been completely fixed yet.
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| If you need a good screen, sony vaios have usually. |
Vaios are probably one of the best notebook brands, but they're also among the most expensive. You're paying a HEAVY premium for the quality.
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this is why I stuck to my trusty PB4 12# (last gen of that PB model), and my G5 dual with 23# apple screen (last gen of that G5 model)
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Yes, but see below:
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A similar problem occurred with the original Intel Macs. Corsair Value Select wouldn't work in them. I could be wrong, but Apple are fanatical about making everything absolutely to international standards. This means that devices that Windows PCs would otherwise be tolerant of, due to the lax following of standards, don't work on Macs. Of course, this doesn't stop Apple creating their own international standards (eg: Firewire).
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Quality? The last time I worked in a place that sold Vaios, at least one of the models was so poorly made or designed that every single one sold was returned faulty. I wont touch Sony with a 10-foot barge pole.
| Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif Would it be a better idea to install any custom upgrades (memory or drives) after the purchase? Mac doesnt have great prices on that stuff. These parts are not proprietary right? |
Yes, but see below:
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| Originally Posted by Kirosia /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you have one of the newer models, I'd be wary: 'Unibody' MacBook users report lockups with third-party RAM I'm not sure if the issue has been completely fixed yet. |
A similar problem occurred with the original Intel Macs. Corsair Value Select wouldn't work in them. I could be wrong, but Apple are fanatical about making everything absolutely to international standards. This means that devices that Windows PCs would otherwise be tolerant of, due to the lax following of standards, don't work on Macs. Of course, this doesn't stop Apple creating their own international standards (eg: Firewire).
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| Vaios are probably one of the best notebook brands, but they're also among the most expensive. You're paying a HEAVY premium for the quality. |
Quality? The last time I worked in a place that sold Vaios, at least one of the models was so poorly made or designed that every single one sold was returned faulty. I wont touch Sony with a 10-foot barge pole.
Kirosia
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Perhaps you're correct. I have heard that certain ones like the FE series suffer from build issues and poor screens, though the newer models in general are supposed to be improved. Guess Sony lacks consistency across its model lines, notebooks seem to either be really bad or very good.
| Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Quality? The last time I worked in a place that sold Vaios, at least one of the models was so poorly made or designed that every single one sold was returned faulty. I wont touch Sony with a 10-foot barge pole. |
Perhaps you're correct. I have heard that certain ones like the FE series suffer from build issues and poor screens, though the newer models in general are supposed to be improved. Guess Sony lacks consistency across its model lines, notebooks seem to either be really bad or very good.
oogabooga
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Based on my experiences I have to respectfully disagree - Sony builds nice-looking products but they don't support them, use REALLY propriety stuff (i.e. installing Linux is tough as hell), and as a company they occasionally do nasty things like use rootkits. My calls to Sony support always left me frustrated and no better off then before I called, which is why I no longer use their products. Two of my friends have used the smallest (10.8") and largest (19") VAIOs, and while they look amazing, they were so functionally useless that both switched to another computer (ironically both Macs) after 6 months or so.
| Originally Posted by Kirosia /img/forum/go_quote.gif Vaios are probably one of the best notebook brands, but they're also among the most expensive. You're paying a HEAVY premium for the quality. |
Based on my experiences I have to respectfully disagree - Sony builds nice-looking products but they don't support them, use REALLY propriety stuff (i.e. installing Linux is tough as hell), and as a company they occasionally do nasty things like use rootkits. My calls to Sony support always left me frustrated and no better off then before I called, which is why I no longer use their products. Two of my friends have used the smallest (10.8") and largest (19") VAIOs, and while they look amazing, they were so functionally useless that both switched to another computer (ironically both Macs) after 6 months or so.
Kirosia
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Maybe I was wrong. I've had other Sony products, and they turn to out to be pretty good build-wise. (Had a vaio, actually dropped it quite a few times before it crapped out, though it was on the heavy side) Demo'd a few new ones and they worked fine for me, if I bought one I'd only use XP and do little to no tweaking. (Still too expensive for my blood, nonetheless) I've had experience with Dell and HP also, they're build quality and tech support are pretty bad as well. (Business notebooks excluded) So I thought that in relative terms, the Sonys were a little better.
oogabooga
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No, I don't think you're wrong, and I probably came off a bit strong in my reply above. Call it latent rage at Sony.
I'll share a positive HP tech experience - my cousin sent his 17", middle-of-the-line laptop in for service. HP fixed it but misplaced it, so they sent him the top-of-the-line 17" model gratis, then found his laptop a week later and sent that back to him too.
Dell was great before (I used their NBD onsite a few times in 04-05 with my Latitiude), but I agree in that I've heard nothing but bad things about Dell in the past two years.
I'll share a positive HP tech experience - my cousin sent his 17", middle-of-the-line laptop in for service. HP fixed it but misplaced it, so they sent him the top-of-the-line 17" model gratis, then found his laptop a week later and sent that back to him too.
Dell was great before (I used their NBD onsite a few times in 04-05 with my Latitiude), but I agree in that I've heard nothing but bad things about Dell in the past two years.
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Thanks, Planar_head!
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I think you're probably right. Again, there were differences on the third unit (versus the first and second). I think the first was made in late October, the second in early November, and the third in early December. It doesn't appear, however, they've yet fixed the external display issue that it seems many are experiencing (at least not as of today from what I've seen).
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Ah, that's what I want to read. I hope I can say the same in a couple of years.
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This is what I worry about, too, given where Apple is going. New MacBook--glass. New MacBook Pro--glass. New 24" Apple Cinema Display--glass. But, again, I'll worry about that in a couple/few years. Hopefully, by then, they'll have come to their senses.
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And, again, non-glass glossy displays are simply not as mirror-like as these flat glass ones, and the glare is quite a bit worse with the glass to my eyes. I'm on one of my Dell laptops right now with a glossy screen (because I'm upstairs, away from my MacBook Pro), and, again, it's still far less reflective to me than the glass screen. (I'm on the Dell Inspiron 9300 that I used for about three years prior to going Mac.)
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Since these were my first Macs, I can only say that my experience has me promising myself to stay away from any totally new Mac model in its first few months (or even longer).
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Thanks. I am definitely happier with this screen. In addition to being easier on my eyes, it's 1920 x 1200, which my Dell Inspiron 9300 also is, and makes it somewhat easier to manage multiple windows.
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Thanks for pointing me to that. I read the terms, though, and I don't think that there's much added value (for me anyway) with ProCare. As you stated, it's definitely not on-site. I think I'd take the ~$300 I'd spend on ProCare over the next few years, and apply that toward a backup MacBook.
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Yes, Tom, we must. When I get back from CES, let's start talking about it. I want to get my Wadia 301's input board in before we do it, though, if possible. (I'm going to see if I can find the time to drop my 301 off at Wadia prior to leaving for CES to see if they can install the input board in it while I'm gone.)
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Unfortunately, the external display issue seems to me to be possibly more common than freak.
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I made up my mind that I wouldn't even consider making the switch to Mac OS if I was going to have to maintain both OS's on my main laptop--it was one or the other, lest my life simply get more complex instead of more productive. (I was okay with the idea of keeping the Windows machines around, of course--like many of you, I have several. But I wanted my main computer to be one or the other.) It was only once I found the Mac equivalents and/or substitutes for all of the apps I use regularly (thanks in large part to one of my co-workers, and friends/family on Mac) that I decided to go Mac.
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Ooh, fun thread. Yes, I will definitely contribute to that discussion, as I've found some wonderful apps for my purposes.
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With my Windows machines, the LP2475w can be overly saturated looking. I think it has something to do with color management/tuning. On my MBP 17, however, it's fantastic. I don't have a calibrator, but I did download some other ICC profiles others posted, and there is one in particular that I like. (I know that's not ideal calibration by any stretch, but it looks better to me than stock, and, well, I'm not a pro graphics or photo person, so that solution worked great for me.
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I strongly suggest anyone considering a unibody MB or MBP visit an Apple Store location to see for yourself that the glass makes for a new caliber of glossy.
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Thanks, Kai! Yes, I want to stop looking back, too.
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Yes, again, no Rev A units for me anymore.
As for the unibody's strength, I saw this the other day: Apple - Support - Discussions - Bent my macbook
...
In the above link, someone posts about his unibody MBP bending under the stress of being picked up by one hand. Whereas that's not generally a good idea, I was surprised that happened. I figured the unibody chassis pretty much impervious to such bending. Oh well, it still seems like it would be stronger than the average laptop chassis to me.
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Yes, you did give me many points to consider ahead of the decision. I'll have the 17" MBP at CES. See you in Vegas, bro.
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I don't have enough experience comparing the two to comment on this. The LP2475w has CCFL backlighting, as does my Dell FPW2405, and both look very nice (the LP2475 being quite a bit nicer to my eyes). I'll say all of the MacBook Pros I've used (and I have used four throughout this so far) have all had LED backlight, and all were brighter than my previous laptops' displays.
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The following link is to a screen test that I think is supposed to help test for the flicker:
http://www.csse.uwa.edu.au/~lucas/background.html
(I can not say with any authority what the above linked test image does or does not prove.)
I think what some are saying is that the LED backlights of some displays might have a flicker that is not clearly visible (in terms of noticing an actual flicker), but that is present enough to possibly cause fatigue and eye strain. I was afraid this was what I was experiencing; but, again, this 17" MBP has LED backlighting, too, and I'm not experiencing the fatigue/eye strain I was getting with the unibody MBP. This leads me to assume that it was probably the glare (which is what I'd now bet it was), and/or it could also be a difference in the LED backlighting between the two displays.
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First of all, bangraman, it's nice to see you here again. Regarding the audio quality: it's better than I've been able to squeeze from any of my previous laptops. I've had excellent results with the optical digital out directly to DACs so far. And, trust me, if you read my original post in this thread, you'll see I'm certainly no Mac fanboy--yet.
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Regarding build quality: Yeah, I'm not sure where I'm at yet, in terms of an opinion of the build quality of these MacBooks. I loved the unibody chassis, and thought it very sturdy feeling--but then there's that link above where the guy bent his chassis by picking up his unibody MBP with one hand. The 17" MBP concerns me to some degree, especially given its rather thin display and the sheet aluminum outer shell of it. I have concerns about deforming the back of the screen (I'm not sure how founded or unfounded these concerns are), which is something I never worried about with my much more plasticky Dell Inspiron 9300. Mind you, the Inspiron 9300 was also considerably thicker and heavier than the 17" MBP, and seems tougher to me. Whereas I didn't hesitate to keep my Inspiron 9300 in my LowePro CompuTrekker Plus AW backpack, I am concerned about the idea of traveling with the MBP 17" in that bag, because when that pack is set down on its back, the weight of the camera gear in the main compartment is resting almost entirely on the closed laptop's lid. With the 17" MBP's thin aluminum outer shell, my concerns about denting it under such weight during travel (especially when your bags in the overhead compartments are subject to merciless stuffing and knocking) had me picking up an aluminum hard-side carrying case for it (while not lightweight, my first concern is minimizing the chance of problems and downtime).
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My experience with Dell over the years has been, overall, very positive. There have been a couple of glitchces, both notable ones being with one model (the Dell Inspiron 8500). That was, in my opinion, a dud of a laptop for me. My first problem with that 8500 was damaging the hard drive by putting pressure on the palm rest with my palm as I was adjusting my body position while laptop computing on a couch--why they put the drive right under the palm rest, and with rather poor reinforcement above it, I have no idea. The pressure was light enough to not permanently leave any deformation on the outer case or the reinforcing bits underneath--again, just a horrible design, in my opinion. The second problem involved the worst and best of my experience with Dell. The 8500 display went out. On-site technician came to try to fix it at least three times, with no luck. (The technicians were perplexed--as was I--as they replaced pretty much the whole thing, piece by piece.) Their response was to give me a new Inspiron 9300 (which, at the time, was pretty state of the art) as a no-cost replacement, which I found to be a more than satifactory outcome; and I'd used that 9300 until my decision to switch to Mac from PC, and what also became my unibody MBP debacle.
The only problem I can recall having with the Inspiron 9300 in the three years or so I used it was a fan that started making some noise. An on-site technician fixed it lickety-split. I felt this was a great track record for the 9300 (for me), especially in light of the fact that I did anything but baby it. Unlike this 17" MBP, that Inspiron 9300 never saw the inside of a hard-side case.
| Originally Posted by Planar_head /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the story, Jude. I think I'll point anyone whose considering a Mac here, because it is so down to earth.... |
Thanks, Planar_head!
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| Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Congrats on the switch Jude. Pity nobody warned you never to buy the first revision of any new Mac. Though new revisions aren't announced (unless it's a spec upgrade) Apple silently make changes to the models in response to issues that arise. I'm sure if you'd done this a few months later, you'd have had none of the issues. |
I think you're probably right. Again, there were differences on the third unit (versus the first and second). I think the first was made in late October, the second in early November, and the third in early December. It doesn't appear, however, they've yet fixed the external display issue that it seems many are experiencing (at least not as of today from what I've seen).
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| Originally Posted by AuroraProject /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've been loving my 17" MBP for just over 2 years now. Still runs like it did on day 1, when it dies I will buy another one in a heartbeat. |
Ah, that's what I want to read. I hope I can say the same in a couple of years.
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| Originally Posted by vagarach /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....And glossy displays, who decided they were good, now the whole damn industry uses them. In the future will there ever be an Apple computer without a glossy display? |
This is what I worry about, too, given where Apple is going. New MacBook--glass. New MacBook Pro--glass. New 24" Apple Cinema Display--glass. But, again, I'll worry about that in a couple/few years. Hopefully, by then, they'll have come to their senses.
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| Originally Posted by rlpaul /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't get why Apple insists on Glossy displays - they're glare nightmares. They look all shiny and cool in the store, but they're a real PITA in working conditions. I have the previous generation MBP 15, when they were offering glossy displays as an option, and I could never figure out how they became so popular. |
And, again, non-glass glossy displays are simply not as mirror-like as these flat glass ones, and the glare is quite a bit worse with the glass to my eyes. I'm on one of my Dell laptops right now with a glossy screen (because I'm upstairs, away from my MacBook Pro), and, again, it's still far less reflective to me than the glass screen. (I'm on the Dell Inspiron 9300 that I used for about three years prior to going Mac.)
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| Originally Posted by oogabooga /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, sadly Currawong is quite correct. Apple's QC on new products has been poor as of late.... |
Since these were my first Macs, I can only say that my experience has me promising myself to stay away from any totally new Mac model in its first few months (or even longer).
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| Originally Posted by oogabooga /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....Jude - way to go on the 17"! I've seen that matte, HD quality screen - it's amazing!... |
Thanks. I am definitely happier with this screen. In addition to being easier on my eyes, it's 1920 x 1200, which my Dell Inspiron 9300 also is, and makes it somewhat easier to manage multiple windows.
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| Originally Posted by oogabooga /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....BTW, it's not Dell's amazing NBD on-site coverage, but Apple does have ProCare, which is supposed to give you priority service on repairs, etc. I had a Latitude before my Mac and I did use their NBD onsite a couple of times. I also had a cavalier attitude to drinking coffee by my laptop |
Thanks for pointing me to that. I read the terms, though, and I don't think that there's much added value (for me anyway) with ProCare. As you stated, it's definitely not on-site. I think I'd take the ~$300 I'd spend on ProCare over the next few years, and apply that toward a backup MacBook.
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| Originally Posted by elrod-tom /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is just TOO funny... I bought a MAC Mini just last Saturday, along with an Apogee Duet. I am also waiting for my Wadia digital input board (not much longer I'm told ), though I'll be driving the Wadia mostly with the iTransport. I think we'll have the pieces for a pretty good Detroit area meet before much longer here. |
Yes, Tom, we must. When I get back from CES, let's start talking about it. I want to get my Wadia 301's input board in before we do it, though, if possible. (I'm going to see if I can find the time to drop my 301 off at Wadia prior to leaving for CES to see if they can install the input board in it while I'm gone.)
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| Originally Posted by noremedy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, this sounds like a freak and unlucky incident. - I made the switch recently from PC to Mac - hiccup free. However, i purposely bought an old MBP 15" when the MATTE screen was standard, I knew all i was likely to miss out on was DDR3 ram, which i hear is buggy anyway? Anyway I am glad you got it solved, and am glad to hear you kept your cool with that arrogant sounding p**** in the store. |
Unfortunately, the external display issue seems to me to be possibly more common than freak.
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| Originally Posted by RYCeT /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....The only problem I have is to access my files on osx from my desktop pc. I'm not an apple fanboy however I loved my macbook. OSX is so much better than windows. I still have a pc desktop. At first, I thought of using my macbook to run xp and I did install xp pro on bootcamp and fusion. I rarely open my xp on bootcamp or use fusion. OSX handles my needs just fine, for everything else, I just use my pc desktop. For laptop purposes, I'll buy another macbook in a heart beat.... |
I made up my mind that I wouldn't even consider making the switch to Mac OS if I was going to have to maintain both OS's on my main laptop--it was one or the other, lest my life simply get more complex instead of more productive. (I was okay with the idea of keeping the Windows machines around, of course--like many of you, I have several. But I wanted my main computer to be one or the other.) It was only once I found the Mac equivalents and/or substitutes for all of the apps I use regularly (thanks in large part to one of my co-workers, and friends/family on Mac) that I decided to go Mac.
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| Originally Posted by RYCeT /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....So Jude, the next thing you should do is check this thread http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f90/wh...e-os-x-394065/ Enjoy your OSX experience. |
Ooh, fun thread. Yes, I will definitely contribute to that discussion, as I've found some wonderful apps for my purposes.
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| Originally Posted by FrederikS|TPU /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....BTW how is that HP LP2475w treating you? Got one too and I use it both with my laptop and big PC. I had a little problems getting the colors to be true but after that it has been smooth. |
With my Windows machines, the LP2475w can be overly saturated looking. I think it has something to do with color management/tuning. On my MBP 17, however, it's fantastic. I don't have a calibrator, but I did download some other ICC profiles others posted, and there is one in particular that I like. (I know that's not ideal calibration by any stretch, but it looks better to me than stock, and, well, I'm not a pro graphics or photo person, so that solution worked great for me.
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| Originally Posted by woof07 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow. You really have me second-guessing my very-near-future unibody MBP purchase. I like glossy screens, personally, and the LED-backlit screens I've seen in the past (notably the Dell XPS models) were phenomenal.... |
I strongly suggest anyone considering a unibody MB or MBP visit an Apple Store location to see for yourself that the glass makes for a new caliber of glossy.
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| Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Congratulations on the switch Jude! I am closing in on my 5 year anniversary of my own switch (FreeBSD on Dell -> Mac OS X on PowerBook G4), and have never looked back. |
Thanks, Kai! Yes, I want to stop looking back, too.
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| Originally Posted by MusicallySilent /img/forum/go_quote.gif Jude, you have now witnessed the difference between Rev A and Rev (much later letter) which has almost been perfected I had a debate for a few days between lower unibody 15 or lower previous gen 15 (could get it for 1400 at microcenter pre tax) I have decided on the previous for basically what you have discussed, 100s of people are having problems with such a new product so I would much rather get something that has been perfected for 2 years. In reality the only things that make me want unibody are chassis strength and h.264 chip, also my urge to have the newest technology. But that mini display port and glass screen deter me every time. I am making the jump to mac (with bootcamp for inventor and a few games) later this week, and I hope I have good luck. |
Yes, again, no Rev A units for me anymore.
As for the unibody's strength, I saw this the other day: Apple - Support - Discussions - Bent my macbook
...In the above link, someone posts about his unibody MBP bending under the stress of being picked up by one hand. Whereas that's not generally a good idea, I was surprised that happened. I figured the unibody chassis pretty much impervious to such bending. Oh well, it still seems like it would be stronger than the average laptop chassis to me.
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| Originally Posted by Edwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif LOL, sorry I couldn't better talk you out of getting a Mac, Jude. Contrary to popular belief, LED backlighting is not superior to cold cathode tube lighting. LED's have their benefits, but superior lighting is not one of them. LED's offer more light for less energy, but they are single spot light sources, so lighting is often uneven. It requires a larger diffuser and more LED's, which negates the space saving and energy saving benefits. Also, the part that is hard on the eyes, is the process in which most LED's are dimmed. PWM. Pulse Width Modulation. Basically, the LED's are flickered on and off to reduce the appearance of their brightness. But some people can actually see this effect. The best way to check for it, is to wave your hand in front of the screen. So, for LED bases displays, they look the best with the screen brightness cranked all the way up. My Fujitsu P1610 has LED lighting, and the dimming circuit is not done with poorly executed PWM, but the inverter makes an annoying high pitched whine when I dim the screen. But I'd rather have the high pitched whine I can only hear when it's in a very quiet room, vs. eye strain inducing PWM. Anyways, glad to hear you like your new 17" Macbook. Are you bringing it to CES? -Ed |
Yes, you did give me many points to consider ahead of the decision. I'll have the 17" MBP at CES. See you in Vegas, bro.
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| Originally Posted by woof07 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I disagree with that, Ed. CCFL backlighting is prone to hotspots and screen bleed, much more so than any LED screen should be, and especially with age. |
I don't have enough experience comparing the two to comment on this. The LP2475w has CCFL backlighting, as does my Dell FPW2405, and both look very nice (the LP2475 being quite a bit nicer to my eyes). I'll say all of the MacBook Pros I've used (and I have used four throughout this so far) have all had LED backlight, and all were brighter than my previous laptops' displays.
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| Originally Posted by M0T0XGUY /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not so sure about that. I've compared several 20"-24" LCD's side by side, and LED backlit models consistently remain the brightest, sharpest, and most accurate in terms of color. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've also never noticed a flickering picture regardless of the brightness setting; and I'm typing on a new Macbook as we speak. |
The following link is to a screen test that I think is supposed to help test for the flicker:
http://www.csse.uwa.edu.au/~lucas/background.html
(I can not say with any authority what the above linked test image does or does not prove.)
I think what some are saying is that the LED backlights of some displays might have a flicker that is not clearly visible (in terms of noticing an actual flicker), but that is present enough to possibly cause fatigue and eye strain. I was afraid this was what I was experiencing; but, again, this 17" MBP has LED backlighting, too, and I'm not experiencing the fatigue/eye strain I was getting with the unibody MBP. This leads me to assume that it was probably the glare (which is what I'd now bet it was), and/or it could also be a difference in the LED backlighting between the two displays.
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| Originally Posted by bangraman /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which is interesting, since what's inside is basically a bog standard low-end soundcard with the same (or in some cases even worse) electronics between the codec and the sockets certainly in terms of analog output as any number of other notebooks. (digital isn't actually that hot either, but that's another argument and really not that important as it *is* quite convenient) One aspect of Mac 'fanboyism' is that many people imbue Apple gear with superior function for no logically discernible reason. I see it everywhere since I started using them again in earnest.... |
First of all, bangraman, it's nice to see you here again. Regarding the audio quality: it's better than I've been able to squeeze from any of my previous laptops. I've had excellent results with the optical digital out directly to DACs so far. And, trust me, if you read my original post in this thread, you'll see I'm certainly no Mac fanboy--yet.
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| Originally Posted by bangraman /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....And Jude, your experiences aren't unique. That's the other problem... the actual build quality of Apple equipment, not just the surface look & feel which they are masters of. The two issues for me ended up also undermining the theoretical advantage of a Boot Campable Mac (which isn't actually that convenient or compatible, and virtualisation isn't for everyone who has 'heavy lifting' Windows uses). As much as I depend on my iPods, I have to say I have a more ambivalent relationship with the Macs. |
Regarding build quality: Yeah, I'm not sure where I'm at yet, in terms of an opinion of the build quality of these MacBooks. I loved the unibody chassis, and thought it very sturdy feeling--but then there's that link above where the guy bent his chassis by picking up his unibody MBP with one hand. The 17" MBP concerns me to some degree, especially given its rather thin display and the sheet aluminum outer shell of it. I have concerns about deforming the back of the screen (I'm not sure how founded or unfounded these concerns are), which is something I never worried about with my much more plasticky Dell Inspiron 9300. Mind you, the Inspiron 9300 was also considerably thicker and heavier than the 17" MBP, and seems tougher to me. Whereas I didn't hesitate to keep my Inspiron 9300 in my LowePro CompuTrekker Plus AW backpack, I am concerned about the idea of traveling with the MBP 17" in that bag, because when that pack is set down on its back, the weight of the camera gear in the main compartment is resting almost entirely on the closed laptop's lid. With the 17" MBP's thin aluminum outer shell, my concerns about denting it under such weight during travel (especially when your bags in the overhead compartments are subject to merciless stuffing and knocking) had me picking up an aluminum hard-side carrying case for it (while not lightweight, my first concern is minimizing the chance of problems and downtime).
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| Originally Posted by oogabooga /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....I'll share a positive HP tech experience - my cousin sent his 17", middle-of-the-line laptop in for service. HP fixed it but misplaced it, so they sent him the top-of-the-line 17" model gratis, then found his laptop a week later and sent that back to him too. Dell was great before (I used their NBD onsite a few times in 04-05 with my Latitiude), but I agree in that I've heard nothing but bad things about Dell in the past two years. |
My experience with Dell over the years has been, overall, very positive. There have been a couple of glitchces, both notable ones being with one model (the Dell Inspiron 8500). That was, in my opinion, a dud of a laptop for me. My first problem with that 8500 was damaging the hard drive by putting pressure on the palm rest with my palm as I was adjusting my body position while laptop computing on a couch--why they put the drive right under the palm rest, and with rather poor reinforcement above it, I have no idea. The pressure was light enough to not permanently leave any deformation on the outer case or the reinforcing bits underneath--again, just a horrible design, in my opinion. The second problem involved the worst and best of my experience with Dell. The 8500 display went out. On-site technician came to try to fix it at least three times, with no luck. (The technicians were perplexed--as was I--as they replaced pretty much the whole thing, piece by piece.) Their response was to give me a new Inspiron 9300 (which, at the time, was pretty state of the art) as a no-cost replacement, which I found to be a more than satifactory outcome; and I'd used that 9300 until my decision to switch to Mac from PC, and what also became my unibody MBP debacle.
The only problem I can recall having with the Inspiron 9300 in the three years or so I used it was a fan that started making some noise. An on-site technician fixed it lickety-split. I felt this was a great track record for the 9300 (for me), especially in light of the fact that I did anything but baby it. Unlike this 17" MBP, that Inspiron 9300 never saw the inside of a hard-side case.
Shike
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Yeah? What limitations?
If you say DRM, I'm going to hit you with a stick since that's utter BS.
| Originally Posted by SACD-Man /img/forum/go_quote.gif Vista for example has so many limitations and that's why I refuse to upgrade from XP. |
Yeah? What limitations?
If you say DRM, I'm going to hit you with a stick since that's utter BS.
olblueyez
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Hey for all you die hard XP fans, Vista SP1 is out fellows, it works like a charm.
Andrew_WOT
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19" Vaio? Must be something new, afaik the biggest one is 18.4", I own one and it's a beautiful machine, has optical output, and screen that made me wet my pants when I saw it first time. They use 3 LED RGB technology in the Premium line of AW (piano black finish).
| Originally Posted by oogabooga /img/forum/go_quote.gif Two of my friends have used the smallest (10.8") and largest (19") VAIOs, and while they look amazing, they were so functionally useless that both switched to another computer (ironically both Macs) after 6 months or so. |
19" Vaio? Must be something new, afaik the biggest one is 18.4", I own one and it's a beautiful machine, has optical output, and screen that made me wet my pants when I saw it first time. They use 3 LED RGB technology in the Premium line of AW (piano black finish).
oogabooga
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He called it a 19" - bought it over a year ago. It was one of the first laptops with a Blu-Ray drive, and has two hard drives in RAID 1 and a built-in TV tuner. We couldn't get Linux installed on it for the life of us. Screen did look amazing though - it was HIGH-res (icons in Windows were tiny)!
| Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif 19" Vaio? Must be something new, afaik the biggest one is 18.4", I own one and it's a beautiful machine, has optical output, and screen that made me wet my pants when I saw it first time. They use 3 LED RGB technology in the Premium line of AW (piano black finish). |
He called it a 19" - bought it over a year ago. It was one of the first laptops with a Blu-Ray drive, and has two hard drives in RAID 1 and a built-in TV tuner. We couldn't get Linux installed on it for the life of us. Screen did look amazing though - it was HIGH-res (icons in Windows were tiny)!
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