[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by analogbox /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't own any formats, yet. But I like the way Toshiba's handling things over cheaper production costs and acquiring competitive movie titles. Their only weakness is the storage and that's the only thing BR fans go after HD-DVD, but just because BR has more capacity doesn't mean it should win. On dual-layerd HD-DVD, you can store up to 8 hours of all high-def contents. Now, that's more than enough for any studios to put their stuffs in. If they run out of 30G, they can simply throw in an extra disc. Now, that's too much. So, the storage theory doesn't make it disputable.

The idea is that BD is useful for data storage AND as a distribution media for the latest box office hit. One format and one standard for both uses. That's pretty compelling.

 

[roadtonowhere08]

I don't like the idea of more than two layers. Way too much that can happen with a bad batch of glue... for all of you who remember early DVD peeling. At the rate they press those things, forget it. Might as well go holographic and go nuts for the funding on a format that will have some SERIOUS legs.

 

[003]

This is bad news, BluRay is actually the superior format, plus people buy blu ray players, take the blue diode and make a wickedly expensive blue laser pointer with it.

I really hope blu ray wins...

 

[analogbox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif The idea is that BD is useful for data storage AND as a distribution media for the latest box office hit. One format and one standard for both uses. That's pretty compelling.

Portable media for data storage is a doomed market to begin with. Now days, we can buy hard drives that have hundreds of giga bytes for not much money. Not only that, we have all kinds of flash memory medias that just doubles the storage every year. It's been YEARS since I've last backed up my data on a CD. So, the data storage, too, doesn't win the argument.

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif The idea is that BD is useful for data storage AND as a distribution media for the latest box office hit. One format and one standard for both uses. That's pretty compelling.

At the prices that BD-R discs are going for, they're not a compelling argument at all. 500 GB hard drives are ~ $100. The same space in BD-R is $220 at 25 GB/disc and $11/disc.

Sure, prices will go down, but just look at where DVD-R DL is now. After god knows how long on the market, they're still $2/disc, which would run ~ $120. Blu-ray may reach that eventually, but won't go lower without Chinese manufacturing. Good luck with that in the near term.

Given the current hard drive cost advantage, disc based storage with Blu-Ray or HD-DVD is going to be a nonstarter.

 

[Redo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin /img/forum/go_quote.gif At the prices that BD-R discs are going for, they're not a compelling argument at all. 500 GB hard drives are ~ $100. The same space in BD-R is $220 at 25 GB/disc and $11/disc. Sure, prices will go down, but just look at where DVD-R DL is now. After god knows how long on the market, they're still $2/disc, which would run ~ $120. Blu-ray may reach that eventually, but won't go lower without Chinese manufacturing. Good luck with that in the near term. Given the current hard drive cost advantage, disc based storage with Blu-Ray or HD-DVD is going to be a nonstarter.

Mmmhmm, I hate disc storage too. Discs laying around are a pain in my rear. But the one thing I never buy is DL DVD's. A 3 pack costs like $10 or $14 still.

 

[flecom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy /img/forum/go_quote.gif 50 GB may be laughable to you, but 15 GB is even more laughable. Removable storage is always an order of magnitude smaller than hard disk storage, but Blu-ray is significantly better in that respect. And Blu-ray is available now. The 20 GB capacity of HD DVD-RAM is going to look even more antiquated when the standard is finished and the first drives start coming out in a year or so.

i agree, but toshiba has already announced there will be 51gb disks so im not too worried... although its still not a very useful medium for backing up large amounts of data since i already have 320gb tapes that work allright...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redo /img/forum/go_quote.gif You can upconvert all day long until the cows come home, there's no substitute for a 1920x1080 native source.

while i agree, the difference isnt THAT huge unless your looking for the differences... plus im more into getting the most out of my audio than my video...

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003 /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is bad news, BluRay is actually the superior format, plus people buy blu ray players, take the blue diode and make a wickedly expensive blue laser pointer with it. I really hope blu ray wins...

well, HD-DVD and BlueRay use the same diode, i know because i pulled one out of a PS3 stage... its a triple diode in one 6.5mm package... infrared for CD, red for dvd and VIOLET for BR/HD-DVD... its a 403nm laser, which would actually make it violet/near ultra-violet... not blue... i guess violetray didnt pass the focus groups?

lets not forget betamax was the superior format too

Quote:

Originally Posted by analogbox /img/forum/go_quote.gif Portable media for data storage is a doomed market to begin with. Now days, we can buy hard drives that have hundreds of giga bytes for not much money. Not only that, we have all kinds of flash memory medias that just doubles the storage every year. It's been YEARS since I've last backed up my data on a CD. So, the data storage, too, doesn't win the argument.

i dont see flash getting THAT big, but its definately possible as manufacturing costs drop that we can start making really LARGE flash disks...

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin /img/forum/go_quote.gif At the prices that BD-R discs are going for, they're not a compelling argument at all. 500 GB hard drives are ~ $100. The same space in BD-R is $220 at 25 GB/disc and $11/disc. Sure, prices will go down, but just look at where DVD-R DL is now. After god knows how long on the market, they're still $2/disc, which would run ~ $120. Blu-ray may reach that eventually, but won't go lower without Chinese manufacturing. Good luck with that in the near term. Given the current hard drive cost advantage, disc based storage with Blu-Ray or HD-DVD is going to be a nonstarter.

i agree, until the disks are <$1/ea its not really that viable for most people and probably wont see mass adoption till then... look at CD-r's... i remember when i was paying $12 for a blank cd and the only place you could get them was guitar center... with my gigantic 2x burner that cost me $800 lol

 

[Redo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flecom /img/forum/go_quote.gif while i agree, the difference isnt THAT huge unless your looking for the differences...

The difference is freaking massive for me. It's not even close. Sure I don't have the best upconverting players or processors, but we're talking about insanely massive differences.


The HD-DVD of Hot Fuzz is OUT OF THIS WORLD gorgeous. After watching that movie on HD, there's no way anyone can say the difference is small at best.

 

[unclejr]

Regarding data storage, it's like any type of investing, to me. I would certainly not feel comfortable just having my data invested in one backup medium. Even if I have mirrored RAID arrays and whatnot, I've had server setups where both the primary and the mirrored drives have failed. Hard drives are not fail proof, regardless of how cheap they are for storage. It just makes sense to have a secondary medium of storage, and no matter how small CDs or DVDs seem to be storage wise, good quality discs are still a viable backup medium. Yes, they're akin to floppies from back in the day for backups (painful backups, to be sure), but my CD backups from my first $3,000 4x RW (coupled with a 1 GB hard drive as a cache buffer, both SCSI, of course) have still survived. While I am sure some of my hard drives from the era have survived, finding an interface solution for them is not nearly as ubiquitous as the CD.

On the scale of things, optical storage solutions have not been too bad, though I do admit I did want Fujitsu's MO disks (same tech as MD, I guess) to make it, though i never invested in them for data storage. I always hated jaz and zip drives, though, and that seems to have been a fairly wise choice. And I never did embrace superdisk, and glad that I didn't!

Anyway, I think that hard drive alternatives are vital to archival of data. In my opinion, no individual entity should be trusting their data solely to even the most secure RAID array. I certainly wouldn't do it.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redo /img/forum/go_quote.gif The difference is freaking massive for me. It's not even close. Sure I don't have the best upconverting players or processors, but we're talking about insanely massive differences. The HD-DVD of Hot Fuzz is OUT OF THIS WORLD gorgeous. After watching that movie on HD, there's no way anyone can say the difference is small at best.

agreed!

 

[virometal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not only that, but it's probably penny-wise, pound-foolish. Continued uncertainty over the format war slows consumer adoption and purchases of both formats. Grab the kickback, lose broader sales for both formats. The studios would be making money hand over fist right now selling titles if they had only agreed on a single format years ago instead of this ridiculous format war.

Well said, and mirrors my feelings on the subject. It seems like common sense to me. The studio's take a hit now, side with one format in order to encourage mass adoption and get their precious DRM, higher price scale out the door in the future.

It would seem the retailers would want this too. Heck, everyone should want it. But the "bean counters" influenced this decision.

The statistics I've read infer that HD media is not exactly setting the world on fire, sales wise. Paramount might of looked at that and said, "screw it, we're taking the money while the taking is good."

After thinking about it, two things come to mind:

A. Toshiba/HD-DVD consortium is desperate

B. Paramount is not confident in the selling power of either format.

 

[flashnolan]

"Stay “Tru Blu” and keep supporting Blu-ray. Resist supporting an inferior technology for one or two movies, and enjoy the countless classics currently on and coming soon to Blu-ray."

Ok you heard him everybody. Stay Tru Blu!

 

[flashnolan]

"The director behind such films as 'Bad Boys', 'Pearl Harbor', and the recent 'Transformers' movie is upset by Paramount's decision to drop support for Blu-ray. On a post on his personal web forum entitled, "Paramount pisses me off!", Michael Bay says, "I want people to see my movies in the best formats possible. For them to deny people who have Blu-ray sucks! They were progressive by having two formats. No Transformers 2 for me!""

Thanks Paramount...

 

[Redo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashnolan /img/forum/go_quote.gif "Stay “Tru Blu” and keep supporting Blu-ray. Resist supporting an inferior technology for one or two movies, and enjoy the countless classics currently on and coming soon to Blu-ray." Ok you heard him everybody. Stay Tru Blu!

That article is fanboyism at its most extreme.

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashnolan /img/forum/go_quote.gif "The director behind such films as 'Bad Boys', 'Pearl Harbor', and the recent 'Transformers' movie is upset by Paramount's decision to drop support for Blu-ray. On a post on his personal web forum entitled, "Paramount pisses me off!", Michael Bay says, "I want people to see my movies in the best formats possible. For them to deny people who have Blu-ray sucks! They were progressive by having two formats. No Transformers 2 for me!"" Thanks Paramount...

Wait... Paramount's decision would have Michael Bay drop Transformers 2?

That's a net positive right there.