[regal]

Shouldn't we be questioning why this has a tube and an opamp? For a proper I/V you would need either or, but not both for a good implementation.

 

[Turn&cough]

I just picked up a Bendix RB 6385 to replace stock 5670 tube on a soon to be acquired Paradisea. Then I read the following comment on another forum. I'm not sure what to make of it. Could it be that the WE396a is better suited than the venerable 6385?

"I owned the Paradisea for 6 months. I am extemely happy with it. I am using Squeezebox and FLAC for all my digital music. The setup is the original NAIM 5 integrated and NAIM Credo speakers. The Paradisea with WE 396 sounds richer yet as detailed and the NAIM CD 5. The Bendix Redbank 6385 sound very wierd. You get a kind of drunk and uneven sound with much base but noticebly less detail. Non redbank bendix and all other cheaper WE396 clones do not come even close"

 

[Turn&cough]

I e-mailed the fellow just to confirm if I had understood his original comment and got the following reply:

"I tested the following tubes in my Paradisea: WE396, Bendix Redbank 6385 and Bendix 2c51 (non-redbank, shorter version) and the Russian 6N3P-EV. The last 2, 6N3P-EV and Bendix 2c51 did not sound good at all. The Bendix Redbank 6385 sounded very strange, deep loud bass but extremely distorted (I tested 2 different tubes). The WE 396 gave the most accurate yet “analogue” sound and really sounded better than my matched Naim CD player. So I would go with the WE396 any day. The guy who makes the DACs seems to like them best too. Hope this helps."
This seems to go against what I had read from several other people who stated that the 6385 was the perfect tube for the Paradisea. I even read an article proclaiming it as "The King of Tubes" I guess I'll have to order a 396a and see for myself.

 

[Loftprojection]

Not for me! The 6385, imo and with my system sounds better then all other tubes I've tried. I also read the same for some other people, I think it was on audiocircle. That is how I discovered the 6385.

The WE396A, IMO is the best bang for the buck for the Paradisea if you want lush mids/voices. The National 2C51 can be found around the same price, mids do not sound as "tubey" with it but it gives a bit tighter bass and a bit more highs then the WE396A. If money is no object, the Bendix 6385 is the top tube for the Paradisea, not much compromise with this one. The Bendix 2C51 is also pretty good, very similar to the National 2C51. I've tried several others but they are not worth it, all somewhat equivalent to the original tube.

 

[happybob]

i just ordered a we396a from tubesandmore.com to try out myself, will let you guys know. tubesandmore.com seems to have the best price on the we396a, i was looking on ebay, but all of them seem to go for a lot more.

btw, i did a brief comparison between my paradisea+ and ps audio digital link iii earlier today. the paradisea+ is definitely more tubey/mellower sounding, but in terms of definition and detail, the ps audio is again in a different league than the paradisea+. i had posted earlier that the paradisea+ has higher resolution and detail than the musiland md-10 i returned. the ps audio is yet another level up. i'm hoping that with the we396a tube, maybe the gap will be a little narrower. but i agree with what a lot of people have posted in other threads, the parasdisea does sound very smooth and non-fatiguing. after a while, you forget about the detail and resolution and just listen to the music itself.

i'm not really a head-fi'er so most of my listening are done with speakers. the equipments i used to compare the paradisea+ and ps audio digital link iii include simaudio i-3 integrated amp, totem sttaf speakers, and yamaha cd changer connecting through optical out.

oh, one last thing regarding my torroidal transformer being loose. i emailed mhdt lab directly, and got a reply fairly quickly. i was told that the top and bottom screws/washers on the transformoer were left semi-tight intentionally during the assembly, and he would usually tighen them after the final testing of everything. in my case, he thought he might have forgotten to do the final tightening since he was in a rush to get it out. he recommended that i just open up the case and tighten it myself and said that even if i just leave it a little loose, it shouldn't affect the performance in anyway. anyway, just want to let you guys know that they do reply to emails fairly quickly.

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by happybob /img/forum/go_quote.gif the paradisea+ is definitely more tubey/mellower sounding, but in terms of definition and detail, the ps audio is again in a different league than the paradisea+. .

That's the rub and frustration when comparing "affordable" tubed vs. SS sources, almost every time. Unless you're prepared to pay out ungodly amount of money, you pretty much have to pick your poison and tweak your system around it to minimize the weaknesses.

 

[Turn&cough]

"affordable" is relative - when you consider that a Squeezebox, which has a decent Burr Brown DAC built in, costs about $300 or a Cambridge Audio 7.1 A/V receiver with 32 bit DACs built in for about $1100 or an Oppo HD upconverting DVD player can be had for $149. To me $600 for a MIT external DAC(SS or tube) plus extra $$$ for better OP amps, tubes, PS, etc to "minimize its weaknesses" is somewhat stretching the term "affordable".

 

[izquierdaste]

I just put an ad8599 in place of the opa2604 in the previous version and it makes a very nice improvement. There is noticeably more detail and refinement, but musicality is maintained. I used to prefer GE triple mica over WE 396a with the opa2604, but now I prefer 396a with the ad8599 opamp. I think the WE 396a/opa2604 is a bit too tubey for me since I also use a tube amplifier. Before dropping money on the newer version, I would recommend that those with the older version swap in an ad8599 to try out. Looking at the changes, I suspect the replacement of opa2604 with lm4562 is the biggest change from the original, soundwise. (Unless yours has a hum problem.) I don't think the cap or resistor changes would make a huge difference in sound, because the original was already using good caps.

 

[hew]

I prefer the Raytheon 5670 over the 396A largely because of better bass delivery while retaining many of virtues of the 396A.

 

[happybob]

well, i just received the tube i ordered from tubesandmore.com yesterday. i thought i was getting a western electric 396a, but it actually turned out to be a we396a alternative. the one they sent me was the sylvania 2c51, which had also been mentioned in some paradisea thread as good sounding. maybe not as highly recommended as the authentic we 396a, but it's slightly cheaper and also has a more laid back "tubey" sound like the we396a. When compared to the GE 5670w that comes with the dac, the music definitely sounds a lot more laid back (quite obvious). some people called it a more "tubey" or analog sound. i think detail and resolution wise, it's similar to the GE 5670w, but it can give you an impression of being less detailed due to its warmer tone. overall sounds even smoother than the stock GE tube.

again, i don't think the detail and resolution will get to the level of ps audio digital link III by tube rolling, even if you get the autentic we396a tube, or the even more expensive bendix tube. but if it's "tubey" sound you are looking for, now with the sylvania tube, the dac is "tubier" than ever.

if you find your current setup on the bright, fatiguing side, you will definitely want to give the paradisea a try.

 

[Turn&cough]

Quote:

Originally Posted by happybob /img/forum/go_quote.gif well, i just received the tube i ordered from tubesandmore.com yesterday. i thought i was getting a western electric 396a, but it actually turned out to be a we396a alternative. the one they sent me was the sylvania 2c51, which had also been mentioned in some paradisea thread as good sounding. maybe not as highly recommended as the authentic we 396a, but it's slightly cheaper and also has a more laid back "tubey" sound like the we396a. When compared to the GE 5670w that comes with the dac, the music definitely sounds a lot more laid back (quite obvious). some people called it a more "tubey" or analog sound. i think detail and resolution wise, it's similar to the GE 5670w, but it can give you an impression of being less detailed due to its warmer tone. overall sounds even smoother than the stock GE tube. again, i don't think the detail and resolution will get to the level of ps audio digital link III by tube rolling, even if you get the autentic we396a tube, or the even more expensive bendix tube. but if it's "tubey" sound you are looking for, now with the sylvania tube, the dac is "tubier" than ever. if you find your current setup on the bright, fatiguing side, you will definitely want to give the paradisea a try.

Are you saying you ordered a WE396a from these guys but they slipped you a Sylvania 2c51 instead?
Are you disappointed with the level of detail of the Paradisea? I was planning on getting a Paradisea soon but the last thing I need in my system is less detail and flabby bass.

 

[happybob]

yup. i'm going to call them on monday to find out why they ship me the sylvania 2c51 instead of the WE396a.

i wouldn't say the details and bass are lacking. in fact, you get plenty of both. remembered in my earlier post that when compared to the musiland md-10 i had, it has more of both. but when compared to the ps audio digital link iii, it does seem to have a little less bass and details. part of this i think is due to the more "tubey" sound and a overall wamer presentation. by changing the tube from the stock ge 5670w to a sylvania 2c51, the sound is even warmer (this is what people have reported also with we396a), but the details and bass are probably about the same as the stock tube. it's just a more laid-back sound, but still very full overall, with plenty of bass.

i think it comes down to what you need to complement your system. if you have a bright forward sounding system right now that you are looking to "warm" up a little, get a tube dac, on the other hand if you already have a tube based system or warm sounding speakers, a solid state dac might be a better bet.

 

[Towert7]

happybob, just out of curiosity, what other equipment are you using (not including the DAC)?

Personally, I went from the WE396A to the National396A, and i'm not sure if it was plecbo or what, but I thought the bass on the National was less flabby. If this is the case, they will make a very nice pairing with my Darth's.

I love how this dac can be tweaked so eaisly. Changing tubes is a piece of cake, and allows you to tweek the sound to your liking. What's more, you can even change the opamp if need be. By being able to change both of these, the possibilities are numerous. I get so much enjoyment with trying different tubes! Ye ha!

PS: happybob, very sorry to hear that you got shafted with the tube. That's lousey that they did that, and that they just *happened* to list the WE396A (being one of the most expensive variations).

 

[Towert7]

Just wanted to post the other two pictures I took of the insides of the Paradisea+.

This is with the WE396A tube in it.




Sure does have lots of colors.

 

[happybob]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Towert7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif happybob, just out of curiosity, what other equipment are you using (not including the DAC)?

as mentioned in my earlier post, i'm not really a big head-fi'er, i listened through my speakers.

System 1: Simaudio I-3 Integrated Amp, Totem Sttaf Speakers, PS Audio Digital Link III Dac, Old Yamaha CD Changer

System 2: NAD 701 Stereo Receiver, Totem Mite Speakers, Paradisea+ Dac, Computer Audio though ITunes and USB (music files in Apple Lossless or AAC).

The most direct comparison I did between the PS Audio Digital Link III and the Paradisea+ was done using my "System 1" above.