[milkpowder]

You have de-veiled the HD650 though

The HD580/600 sounds far too shrill de-veiled/foamed.

 

[purk]

I have both and prefer the HD-650 w/ upgrade cable over the HD-600 w/ upgrade cable. I found the HD-650's midrange, details, and depth of soundstaging to be more superior to the HD-600. In my experience, the HD-650 also scale better than the HD-600. The HD-600 also sound a little grainny to my ears.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif You have de-veiled the HD650 though The HD580/600 sounds far too shrill de-veiled/foamed.

Yes... with my mods & set up... the HD580/600s can sound a bit bright with some music - very much like Grados can.

Even the HD650s with my mods and set up... can sound bright... though not really harsh.

Though... I don't think I'll be replacing the foam liners any time soon - I really like their brighter, clearer... less veiled... sound - "but... that's just me."

 

[mawk]

I've had my 600's for a couple of years. My dad bought some 650's a few months ago. He just left for Florida for a few months and said I could borrow his 650's while he's gone in order to do my own comparison. I post back when I have some experience.

 

[Gurra1980]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrecked_porsche /img/forum/go_quote.gif I listen mostly to chill out music(Buddha bar) and jazz(Norah Jones + Diana Krall)

Oh! You are gona LOVE Diana and Norah (my two favorites!) with the senns, my bet would be HD650 for them the sweet and smooth midrange is wonderfull with female vocalists. I'm listening to Diana Krall - "Just the way you are" right now with my PX100!! even they give me goosebumps

God damn! I must order a new pair of HD650 I miss them, how stupid was it to sell those!!

 

[wrecked_porsche]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrice While I would agree that the 650 does present a more refined upper range, I like the overall presentation the hd600 offers.

Can you please elaborate? Thanks in advance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrice I'll tip the scales for you now

Evil !

I shall go mad before I'm done with this decision.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pabbi1 I can vouch that the balanced Beta22 sounded great with the hd600, well as far as SS amps go... but, they also hold much love for tubes...

Evil! Evil!

I started this thread to ask which headphone is more detailed and I get a very expensive amp recommendation instead... Gotta love head-fi.

You guys are just awesome! LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by jh4db536 Sounds like front row seats and it's powerful.

Thank you for that, kinda gives me a rough idea...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jh4db536 Because it's not dark like the 650, i think it gives a MUCH better first impression.

How about later on? Do you notice more details in the HD650 upon more testing? Initial impressions are great, but if its just superficial or temporary, I'd much rather have a better headphone even if it means taking some time to appreciate its strengths.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jh4db536 It feels like you are back a few rows (but not strong & as far away vs a K701) and what comes with it is increased soundstage depth and ambience compared to the 600. The 650 darkness bothers me quite a bit...will it ever go away?

Thank you once again. I hate the K701 by the way.

The darkness that everyone speaks of bother me too, since I listened to the HD580 and I thought that was already bordering on darkness already. The dark sound might mask the details and give the impression of being quite slow thus leading to muffled messy sound with not much separation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jh4db536 I would really have a hard time choosing one over the other.

Heh... tell me about it... Unfortunately, I can only buy ONE...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 It really depends on your set up.

I have heard the MS1 and if its anything to go by, I do not like the grado sound at all, granted they do have details, but it sounds like all the singers and artists are standing right beside my ear and singing. There is no sound stage and depth to the music. I like the instruments to be coming from different directions as well as varying distances from me, and I'd like to be able to pick them out. I don't want all to be there at the same time/distance/loudness/direction.

That is what I'm struggling to find and to choose between the two HD6xx... which one has more of that(bold text)?

Temporary set up would be ibasso d1 dac into d1 mp or into microshar u107 amp, the microshar supposedly can drive headphones up to 600 ohms, so I'll make do with them until I can afford an meier opera in a couple of years. In the mean time, I see myself using my pure silver interconnect to tame the bass and bring out slightly more details as well as brighten the sound somwhat.

I notice a significant difference when using my pure copper or pure silver interconnect with my Darths. I imagine the Senns would be even more sensitive to that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by purk In my experience, the HD-650 also scale better than the HD-600.

The way I'm seeing it, this is the biggest pro for getting the HD650. Any future upgrade of upstream equipment might bring out more details when compared to the HD600. I'm in it for the long run, so I've got to think long term.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mawk I've had my 600's for a couple of years. My dad bought some 650's a few months ago. He just left for Florida for a few months and said I could borrow his 650's while he's gone in order to do my own comparison. I post back when I have some experience.

Thank you! Please, PLEASE post back here once you've done an A/B of them both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurra1980 Oh! You are gona LOVE Diana and Norah (my two favorites!) with the senns, my bet would be HD650 for them the sweet and smooth midrange is wonderfull with female vocalists. I'm listening to Diana Krall - "Just the way you are" right now with my PX100!! even they give me goosebumps God damn! I must order a new pair of HD650 I miss them, how stupid was it to sell those!!

Currently I can't last one whole album from Diana or Norah on my Darths. I always fall asleep halfway!

Too relaxing !

A BiG thank you to all who posted in this thread! More comments are welcomed!

BTW, I'm no where nearer to making a decision compared to when I first started this thread... but I'm maybe starting to feel that the HD650 is the way to go... *headache*

Reason for this is that the although the HD600 might be what I'm looking for, the HD650 has more upgrade potential in the future?

 

[thrice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrecked_porsche /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can you please elaborate? Thanks in advance. Reason for this is that the although the HD600 might be what I'm looking for, the HD650 has more upgrade potential in the future?

Well I like the way the HD600 balances high, mids and lows. The lows are strong with the mids being just slightly stronger and the highs float on top.

While the HD650 does tend to scale better as you get better and better sources/amplification I still find that the highs and lows are a bit too present for my tastes.

I can see going with the HD650 though if you're thinking more long term....they do scale well. The HD600 scales well too, but not as much as the 650. Honestly I think you'd like either... I like both personally, but can't justify owning both so I made a decision. Whenever I listen, I kept reaching for the 600 over the 650.

 

[pabbi1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrice /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can see going with the HD650 though if you're thinking more long term....they do scale well. The HD600 scales well too, but not as much as the 650. Honestly I think you'd like either... I like both personally, but can't justify owning both so I made a decision. Whenever I listen, I kept reaching for the 600 over the 650.

I wanted to believe the 650 scaled better (beta22, balanced Millett Max, Wheatfields HA-1 and HA-2, m³, you name it, SE or balanced), but just couldn't hear it. The HD600 are like that one pair of jeans I will wear until the seams all give out - so trusty, so well worn... never letting me down no matter what I ask of them. An exact commodity, trusted at every turn. Same for the 650? No, a bit of uneven performance in the bass, and, x2, just not as balanced. Grit? What I listen to all has _some_ grit - just a bonus for me.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrecked_porsche /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can you please elaborate? Thanks in advance. I have heard the MS1 and if its anything to go by, I do not like the grado sound at all, granted they do have details, but it sounds like all the singers and artists are standing right beside my ear and singing. There is no sound stage and depth to the music. I like the instruments to be coming from different directions as well as varying distances from me, and I'd like to be able to pick them out. I don't want all to be there at the same time/distance/loudness/direction. That is what I'm struggling to find and to choose between the two HD6xx... which one has more of that(bold text)? Temporary set up would be ibasso d1 dac into d1 mp or into microshar u107 amp, the microshar supposedly can drive headphones up to 600 ohms, so I'll make do with them until I can afford an meier opera in a couple of years. In the mean time, I see myself using my pure silver interconnect to tame the bass and bring out slightly more details as well as brighten the sound somwhat. I notice a significant difference when using my pure copper or pure silver interconnect with my Darths. I imagine the Senns would be even more sensitive to that?

With that set up... I would stick with the HD580/600s... if you're going to try Senns. I don't think you'll be pleased with the HD650s, unless you like a dark, veiled sound... or... unless you're going to invest in another set up to bring out their best.

The Senns have more soundstage, and separation than you experienced with the MS1s - actually, quite a lot if you mate them with the right set up. But... the HD600s are less demanding than the HD650s - and have a more balanced sound with lesser set ups. In general, they have a bigger, less bright sound than the Grados. The Senns begin to approach the brightness, clarity and detail of the Grados with the right set up, and have a similar warmth, but virtually none of the stridency, the Grados can sometimes exhibit.

Yes... Senns do respond to copper vs silver cabling - both ICs and headphone cable - as you would expect. In my experience the Cardas really improves the HD580/600s and the RAL Cryo-Silver really improves the HD650s - I really like the CT Cryosilver ICs with the Senns - greater clarity and detail - which they need.

 

[wrecked_porsche]

@thrice and pabbi1, the both of you make very valid points.
I think I'd like either one too. The slight edginess you guys mentioned/slightly more forward mids also match my taste somewhat.

I think both has its pros and cons, but wrt my original question, judging from all that replies I got and looking at the votes, they are roughly the same, and depend a lot on the upstream equipment. I think I would be happy with either one. I'll probably just have to ask my dad's friend to get whichever he can find in order to avoid making a decision myself

.

 

[MaloS]

Once you throw enough money into HD650, it shows its superiority at detail and instrument separation very clearly - got the cash ? (Well don't chuck your credit card at it, but get balanced source/amplification and quality cabling).

 

[wrecked_porsche]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 I don't think you'll be pleased with the HD650s, unless you like a dark, veiled sound... or... unless you're going to invest in another set up to bring out their best.

Meier Opera.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 but virtually none of the stridency, the Grados can sometimes exhibit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 In my experience the Cardas really improves the HD580/600s and the RAL Cryo-Silver really improves the HD650s - I really like the CT Cryosilver ICs with the Senns - greater clarity and detail - which they need.

What are the cardas made off?

 

[wrecked_porsche]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaloS got the cash ?

NO, not at the moment. Not even close!
In the future, when I become a millionaire, then yeah.

 

[indikator]

hello 650 owners, i just wanna ask, is the warm and dark sound of 650 mean that its high recess and more to the mid?

and i have read many that it is very scaleable HP, but i really wonder, does it really worth to pair with all crazy balanced amp like say B-52 not to mention SDS-XLR, an $350 headphone it is only......

btw the conclusion is, it is the same for 600 and 650? oh man another 100 bucks for just darker sound....

 

[purk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by indikator /img/forum/go_quote.gif hello 650 owners, i just wanna ask, is the warm and dark sound of 650 mean that its high recess and more to the mid?

Not really. The HD-650's treble is very nice, but might be too polite to some. I found the HD-650 to be very smooth and as detailed as the HD-600 but less grainy than HD-600's treble. IMO, if you want to improve the treble and overall performance on the HD-650, just add the upgrade cable to your Senn. I have many positive experience with the Zu Mobius, Equinox and Silver Dragon upgraded cable.

Quote:

and i have read many that it is very scaleable HP, but i really wonder, does it really the all crazy balanced amp like say B-52 not to mention SDS-XLR, an $350 headphone it is only......

The best I heard the HD-650 was with the SDS-XLR system (Audio-Aero DAC+Sony SCD-1, and Balanced Zu-Mobius). That system is definitely sound better than my Audio-Technica ATH-L3000 out of a single-end Single Power SDS.

You don't really need to spend more than 5Ks to bring out the best in the HD-650. All you need to do is to get the upgrade cable, have a good source, and pick up a used MPX3-6SN7 from the forum and you 75% there.

Quote:

btw to conclusion is, it is the same for 600 and 650? oh man another 100 bucks for just darker sound....

IMO, I could see someone prefer the HD-600 over the HD-650 in a entry to mid-level system, but I feel that the HD-650 do sound a good bit better in a higher-end systems. I personally think that the HD-650 is just more refined than the HD-600 especially in midrange, bass, depth of soundstage, resolution, and details. Some might prefer the HD-600's brighter presentation but you can invest in a set of upgrade cable to bring out more treble and enhance the overall sound quality. Definitely, it isn't cheap but the HD-650 + upgrade cable is the best buy under 1k in my book.