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Out Of Your Head - new virtual surround simulator

Discussion in 'Computer Audio' started by project86, Nov 7, 2013.
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  1. FangJoker
    If I watched movies on the computer a lot then it would be a no brainer. But I watch most of my movies and TV shows on the TV. The demo samples were impressive for sure.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
  2. darinf
    Yes. Due to the processing requirements of Out Of Your Head and the fact that I didn't want to get into the hardware business, Out Of Your Head does require a computer.
    However, most computers have an HDMI output which will connect to most TV's. So that's an easy way to watch movies on your TV. You can either rip your movies to hard drives or a media server. Or you can watch disks as long as your computer has an optical drive. A computer or laptop works great as a media player.
    For live TV, it's a little tougher. Basically you have to have some kind of tuner connected to your computer. If you want to access all your digital cable channels, then you have to have a tuner which accepts cable cards and get a cable card from your cable provider. The similar holds true for satellite TV. You could get a Silicon Dust HDHomerun Prime tuner which works over ethernet or wifi. It's kind of like a network streaming tuner that accepts cable cards. For $129 it's a pretty slick solution for getting live cable TV on any computer in the house.
    I know that none of this is ideal, but at least there are solutions if you are willing to do a little work.
    I am waiting for the OSX version but I do have one question.  With the trial version I see that I will be able to audition each speaker preset for 2 minutes before it stops.  Have you given some thought to what will happen once the software is purchased and you add additional speakers to the existing library? Will I still be able to audition new presets?
  4. Indiehouse
    Looks interesting!
  5. Lohb
    Really interested to try this on OSX...any updated timescale on that ?
  6. darinf
    FYI, the two minute timer is reset every time you switch presets. If you switch presets before the two minutes is up, the timer will never "go off" and the sound will continue. So, to have more "continuous" listening, you can switch to another preset and back to your original preset every 110 seconds to get a longer audition of each preset.
    When new presets are added, the new presets will be downloadable separately. Or I may just have an updated version download where you would uninstall the current version and install the new version which would install the new presets. Or I may have both options. The preset files can be added or removed simply by copying the preset files to the Out Of Your Head install directory.
    The OS X version was supposed to be done a long time ago. But rather than just port everything to OS X, we decided to rewrite the core engine for easier cross-platform development. Hopefully this new core engine will facilitate the addition of iOS and Android support as well as make the Windows version perform better. Unfortunately this has delayed the release of the Mac version.
    I was showing an OSX version at the SoCal Head-Fi meet running on a Macbook Pro. But it was not a final release version. 
    If you contact me via my website, I can put you on a notification list. Otherwise, you can just keep an eye on this thread and I can let you know when the Mac version is available. (I am not sure I am allowed to announce the OS X version here though as a MOT.)
  7. SoundArtillery
    My dealer recommended OOYH to me after I recently purchased a pair of Audeze LCD-3s from him.  My setup consists of three amps a Burson Soloist, ALO "The PanAm" and ASUS Xonar STX.  I have a Wyred4Sound DSD-SE performing DAC duties generally, but I also sometimes use the onboard DACs of the ALO or Xonar for different comparisons.  My other phones include AKG k701 and Sennheiser HD800.  The latter two phones are well-broken in, the LCD-3 had about 135 hours on it at the time of this review.  
    To be clear, I had heard of  OOYH in the past, but just never got around to using it.  Truth be told, I was happy with my JRiver Crossfeed function to add a little dimension and spatialization to my music.  OOYH obviously adds way more 3D depth and actual location ques as if you were listening to actual speakers.  That said, I have cycled through all the speaker presets and cannot find a preset I care for.  Each one seems to significantly change, delete, amplify or squash instruments in the music.  This criticism is not of a subtle effect either and is hilarious since speakers made by Magico or Acoustic Zen are generally full spectrum and quite neutral.  If OOYH truly does mimic the systems of people with so-called High End rooms, then those owners need to do some serious re-tweaking.  
    Aside from changing the general character of the music, the sound quality of OOYH is tinny and clearly manipulated.  Perhaps the greatest test is the fatigue that quickly sets in when listening to OOYH.  It simply does not sound right or natural.
    Now, before anyone jumps on the small opinions above, please know I am a now a major advocate of taking the sound out of your head after listening to OOYH.  The problem for OOYH is that it caused me to Google Binaural Processing, 3D Headphones and other search queries in Google.  The results I discovered were more than I expected.  Wiping the slew of "soundstage expander" processors aside, I found TB Isone, Dolby Headphone X, Dolby Headphone and Redline Monitor - 112b.  Redline Monitor was very subtle and lacked the "holy crap! wow!" out of your head experience of OOYH.  Dolby Headphone X has yet to be released for PC Soundcards or other major products, but user testing seems very promising.  Dolby Headphone is an Excellent product for movies and games, but not music based on my experience with Xonar's implementation of Dolby Headphone using Asus standard drivers and the UniXonar drivers.  Dolby Headphone suffers from the same weaknesses as OOYH, but despite being an older product actually sounds way more natural in surround than OOYH.  There is an echoing effect that can be reduced with the right settings, but the overal listening fatigue is far less with music compared to OOYH.  
    Now, TB Isone is simply stunning.  It processes 24/192 and lower formats with ease.  It sounds natural and presents with no fatigue at all.  It is the first software product in a long time that has made me want to keep listening and re-listening to my music to hear how it will sound outside my head . . . and outside my head it sounds!  TB Isone is by far the best product I have ever heard for creating a natural musical sonic scape.  In some respect the instruments are better placed and more holographic compared to my actual stereo system.  The presets are great.  I like the Omnidirectional Program with the Hi-Fi Speaker setting, but tweaking TB Isone to your own ear is the best way to truly enjoy this program.  I can't recommend this program enough.
    That said, there is a downside, TB Isone is a VST plugin so it doesn't process all the sound from your computer.  The virtual sound card ability of OOYH is amazing and is something I am familiar with based on my previous experience with my 2-channel system and DIRAC room correction.  I love being able to play MOG through DIRAC and to my speakers.  I wish I could combine the superior sound quality of TB Isone and the virtual soundcard ability of OOYH.  That would be a perfect product.        
    UPDATE:  OOYH IS AWESOME!  User error is a bitch.  Sorry I ever doubted you Darin.  Keep kicking ass!
  8. darinf
    Thanks for the trying Out Of Your Head and for posting the review.
    I wanted to respond since there seems to be something that is not working properly on your system (not your fault). The sound output from Out Of Your Head does not normally sound as you describe. 
    I have had one other person who tried Out Of Your Head and had similar comments about the sound not being right. Interestingly enough, he also came to the SoCal Head-Fi meet recently and listened to my demo systems. After listening to my systems, he said to me that they sounded MUCH better than his system at home. He said if his system at home sounded like my systems at the meet, then he would definitely buy Out Of Your Head. We actually exchanged e-mails to try to figure out what could be different about his system, but ultimately it was hard for me to figure out what could be wrong without being able to see or access his system in person.
    So, my suspicion is that there is some setting or driver or other software in Windows that may be affecting the output of Out Of Your Head. Yes, if you can get good sound out of other software on your system, then in theory the sound you're getting from Out Of Your Head should be right too. But because Out Of Your Head is installed as a virtual sound card and most other audio software is not, there could be some interactions with Windows that does not affect the other software.
    I do always try to have users make sure that any effects or other settings are all disabled before running Out Of Your Head. I know this is obvious, but many systems can bypass all the Windows drivers by using ASIO and not be affected by any other audio software or drivers that are installed with sound cards, gaming software, etc. (I know, we really need to do an ASIO driver. We are working on that.) But I have noticed that many computers come with pre-installed audio "enhancement" software. Other software such as games, DVD playback software, etc. sometimes also install audio enhancement software. Even the ASUS Xonar STX lists the following software that is installed with the drivers:
    I am not saying that you didn't already disable all of that, but if you are using say ASIO from your media player to your DAC, then you would not hear the effects of the other software. But with Out Of Your Head you would hear those effects if they were turned on. (I know, we need to do an ASIO driver...) Just something to check, which I assume you already have.
    I have installed Out Of Your Head on a LOT of different Windows systems with a large variety of DACs and amps and headphones that vary widely in price and performance. But they all have full range sound which mimic the sound of the speakers and the rooms that were measured. If there frequency response is way off or not full spectrum, then something is probably wrong.
    One test I do is to ask people to listen to the pre-rendered mp3's and movie clips on my website. This way they can compare what the output should sound like even though you can only listen to the music and movies that I have chosen to record and post. However, if somehow the pre-rendered samples sound different in terms of frequency response, then clearly something is wrong. The actual output from Out Of Your Head should sound the same as the sound in the pre-rendered demos.
    Of course I am not saying that you or anyone is at fault. It's my fault since it's my software that is not working. But I invite you to contact me if you want to try to figure out where the problem might be. I would greatly appreciate it so I can fix this problem in the future to make sure people have an accurate trial of Out Of Your Head.
    Another point to address is that Out Of Your Head works for up to 7.1 channel surround sound. I know many of you do not watch movies and only listen to music on headphones, but for many, this is a clear difference with products like TB Isone. I think many people never watch movies with headphones since you can't hear all 5.1 or 7.1 channels normally. But with Out Of Your Head you can. I think for head-philes, many people like the sound of headphones and prefer to do critical music listening without any effects to get a pure sound. But still will enjoy Out Of Your Head for watching movies. 
    Thanks again for taking the time to try Out Of Your Head and posting your review.
  9. SoundArtillery
    Hey Darin,
    I really want this program to work precisely for the Movies!  I built a headphone home theater with a 120 screen, Epson HD Projector and buttkickers in the seating for bass.  With young kids it makes less and less sense to have a big system that can never be cranked when free time finally opens up at night.  The majority of the testing was done via the W4S DAC2-DSDse, which was selected on OOYH.  JRiver provided the playback and was setup to use OOYH via WASAPI.  I think this setup config would completely bypass the gaming side of the Xonar, right?  I will reinstall and give all this another test to be completely certain.
  10. kalston
    I wholeheartedely agree with this part. I have actually managed to get Isone to work like OOYH with a virtual soundcard setup and a DSP host (100% free solution), but it took a lot of work before I managed to get it working nicely (stutter/pop free with low enough latency so that I can use it for games - if latency is no concern I can easily get flawless playback but then again when not gaming I'm using JRiver with ASIO so it doesn't matter)
    Unfortunately I have not managed to do with this with surround sound (never managed to get a virtual soundcard outputting more than 2 channels so that I could then process them). So basically never managed to truly replicate what OOYH/Razer Surround does.
    That's why I'm still interested in OOYH (although I really don't feel that I need it for music/video playback but I will probably still buy it if an ASIO version is released). However the current version has too much latency for gaming. Darin mentioned an upcoming gaming version which I am eagerly waiting for but I am not too sure when we can expect that.
    I used Razer Surround for some time but I ditched it for the same reason I had to ditch OOYH : latency (although it was much lower and many people might not notice, it was still too much for me and distracting, and I can't even begin to imagine if I had a more responsive monitor to pair it with..)
    However I do not have the problems you have with OOYH - it sounds stellar on my setup. I prefer Isone (and Isone Surround) but that's just me and I still wouldn't put OOYH far behind or criticize its sound quality.
  11. SoundArtillery
    Hey Guys,
    So how's this for a turn of events . . . Darin got me thinking and I poured over the processes running on my computer.  Turns out I had drivers for an audio editing program with reverb running in the background.  For whatever reason this affected OOYH but not TB Isone.  With that program disable and uninstalled, OOYH is running beautifully.  I still think TB Isone may sound a little more natural but that characteristic is far outweighed by the uncanny stage OOYH injects into my listening space.  The surround effect is way more believable and dramatic that TBIsone.  I purchased OOYH and the Genelec Speaker Preset.  I couldn't be happier right now.  I listened until 2 am last night.  There were several times when I was just all out jammin hard and I thought "****, I better turn this down or the wife will be pissed . . . "  I was hard trying to convince myself that I was the only one who could hear the sound swirling about me.
    Thanks for the excellent product and the even better service.
  12. SoundArtillery
    Ok I've been listening to OOYH all day and my wife is about to divorce me.  I'm convinced, once you find the right preset . . . it's better sounding and more engaging than TB Isone.  OOYH is king.
  13. Argo Duck
    Well this is all good to hear (except for the divorce part, but some things are just more important :p).

    Looking forward to Mac version :popcorn:
  14. a-widodo
    I'd like to try the software but I have 32 bit Windows 7 instead of 64 bit. Is it possible to run the software with 32 bit windows?
  15. darinf
    We currently don't have a Windows 32-bit version. I may be able to compile a 32-bit version and test it. We have had very few requests (I think two) for a 32-bit version and early on we had problems with 32-bit Windows. I can revisit the issue and see if it's not too much work to do.
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