[darinf]

  Has anyone had experiences, good or bad, using OOYH/Jriver on a tablet running into a DAC?  I was looking at the Surface line.  I have an old atom based netbook, but it just chokes on Jriver, so adding OOYH isn't an option. 
TIA,
Mark

Hi @mhpsd ,
 
First, even with a tablet running Windows, most of them have an Atom or similar processor and run 32-bit Windows. Those types of tablets will not work with Out Of Your Head. (As you have found, JRiver often doesn't run well either.)
 
However, there are a few tablets or laptops that can be configured for "tablet mode" that will work with Out Of Your Head.
 
The Surface Pro line (not the Surface or Surface RT), works with Out Of Your Head. 
 
I have two Surface tablets. One is a 1st generation i5 and the other is a Surface Pro 3 i5. I would not recommend the first generation Surface Pro. While it does work, it's right at the edge of the computer's limits when playing a 1080p movie with 7.1 audio and Out Of Your Head.
 
The Surface Pro 3 does much better and works well.
 
I don't know how the Surface Pro 2 compares. But since the Surface Pro 1st gen works, I suppose the Surface Pro 2 should work too. However you may still find that the sound may get interrupted when you are doing other things on the computer at the same time that audio or video is playing through Out Of Your Head. Things like web browsing or even using menus, etc. can cause glitches in the sound.
 
For just audio, and no video. I would imagine the Surface Pro 2 should be fine, especially if it's just two channel audio.
 
Another thing to look at that might be available cheaper would be a "2-in-1" type laptop that can be folded back to operate in "tablet" mode. I understand that those types of laptops can be thicker and heavier than the Surface Pro's, but I think you can get a higher performance computer for the same money. Having more than one USB port can also be helpful if you are using a USB DAC. Otherwise, on the Surface Pro you have to use a hub to use more than one USB device.

 

[krismusic]

Thanks for posting. All I can say is "the best laid plans..." Way back when, I thought the iOS version was not far away, but we decided to shift our focus to a low latency version. Hence the iOS version was pushed back. I cannot even speculate on the availability of the iOS version at this point. We are working on it, but I just don't know how long it's going to take to get past a lot of technical hurdles for mobile devices.

The other issue with mobile devices is that there is really no multi-channel content available. It will be fine for two channel content, but none of the content providers provide 5.1 or 7.1 content on mobile devices. In theory you could provide your own content by ripping DVD's or Blu-Ray's to your mobile device, but even then, there aren't many, if any media player apps that support multi-channel audio. (Do you know of any? I would love to find some.)

We'll keep you posted when the iOS version is coming. Keep an eye on our website or sign up for our newsletter. I won't be able to announce it here.

Sorry if this is necroposting. I would be very happy with even a two channel version that runs on my iPhone.

 

[thekorsen]

This has probably been answered a million times, but I'm new to how digital 7.1 audio works. When I try using this program alone, it only shows L and R channels being used, and I'm assuming that's due to the input being stereo and inherently only having 2 channels. I'm guessing that means I'd need another program to take a stereo source -> convert it to 7.1 and be able to appear as a output device -> select that device as the input for OOYH -> use OOYH as the listening device. Or I'm completely confused about how all this works. If that is how it works, any good free 7.1 program recommendations? Most of my music is stored on spotify, so I'd need a way to play from that and it seems like 7.1 output isn't a option.
 
The prospect of this has me excited though, if it could be developed even further into something like a Smyth Realizer that uses your own PC for head tracking & head + speaker measurement based processing, then use your own dac/amp for playback, I'd easily drop twice the asking price on this software!

 

[darinf]

  This has probably been answered a million times, but I'm new to how digital 7.1 audio works. When I try using this program alone, it only shows L and R channels being used, and I'm assuming that's due to the input being stereo and inherently only having 2 channels. I'm guessing that means I'd need another program to take a stereo source -> convert it to 7.1 and be able to appear as a output device -> select that device as the input for OOYH -> use OOYH as the listening device. Or I'm completely confused about how all this works. If that is how it works, any good free 7.1 program recommendations? Most of my music is stored on spotify, so I'd need a way to play from that and it seems like 7.1 output isn't a option.
 
The prospect of this has me excited though, if it could be developed even further into something like a Smyth Realizer that uses your own PC for head tracking & head + speaker measurement based processing, then use your own dac/amp for playback, I'd easily drop twice the asking price on this software!

Hi @thekorsen ,
Out Of Your Head does not do any channel up-conversion (or down-conversion for that matter). It plays back the same number of channels as the source material. If you play 2 channel audio, then you hear the audio from the Out Of Your Head front Left and Right speakers. If you have a 7.1 source, you will hear audio from all 8 virtual speakers.
 
Generally, the easiest sources for more than 2 channel audio is from DVD's or Blu-Ray's. You can use a built-in optical drive on your computer, or buy a cheap USB optical drive.
 
However, some software like JRiver has built-in DSP to take 2 channel files and up-convert them to 5.1 or 7.1. The results are dependent on the source material, but you can try enabling that functionality in the DSP audio settings of JRiver. There are other plug-ins for FooBar 2000 that can also do the channel up-conversion.
 
Regardless, the signal path for 2 up to 8 channel audio is:
 
Media player app --> Out Of Your Head Virtual sound card --> Out Of Your Head app --> DAC (USB or built-in) --> amp --> headphones
 
Regarding the functionality of Out Of Your Head, since we don't have any hardware, making your own measurements is only possible if we do custom measurements for you either in Southern California or have us fly out to you. Yes, this is not ideal, but it's possible. Another option is to use a Smyth Realiser to do your own measurements. Then you can e-mail us the measurement files and we can convert them for use in Out Of Your Head. We will also be supporting the new Realiser A16 measurement files once it's available.
 
For head tracking, we don't have a software solution yet. Honestly we have found that many people don't use the head tracking once they get used to the sound of their Realiser or Out Of Your Head. Head tracking can be helpful initially, but once your brain is acclimated to the virtual speakers, the head tracking is not required.
 
Thanks for trying Out Of Your Head,
 
-Darin

 

[thekorsen]

 

Spoiler: Snip

Hi @thekorsen ,
Out Of Your Head does not do any channel up-conversion (or down-conversion for that matter). It plays back the same number of channels as the source material. If you play 2 channel audio, then you hear the audio from the Out Of Your Head front Left and Right speakers. If you have a 7.1 source, you will hear audio from all 8 virtual speakers.
 
Generally, the easiest sources for more than 2 channel audio is from DVD's or Blu-Ray's. You can use a built-in optical drive on your computer, or buy a cheap USB optical drive.
 
However, some software like JRiver has built-in DSP to take 2 channel files and up-convert them to 5.1 or 7.1. The results are dependent on the source material, but you can try enabling that functionality in the DSP audio settings of JRiver. There are other plug-ins for FooBar 2000 that can also do the channel up-conversion.
 
Regardless, the signal path for 2 up to 8 channel audio is:
 
Media player app --> Out Of Your Head Virtual sound card --> Out Of Your Head app --> DAC (USB or built-in) --> amp --> headphones
 
Regarding the functionality of Out Of Your Head, since we don't have any hardware, making your own measurements is only possible if we do custom measurements for you either in Southern California or have us fly out to you. Yes, this is not ideal, but it's possible. Another option is to use a Smyth Realiser to do your own measurements. Then you can e-mail us the measurement files and we can convert them for use in Out Of Your Head. We will also be supporting the new Realiser A16 measurement files once it's available.
 
For head tracking, we don't have a software solution yet. Honestly we have found that many people don't use the head tracking once they get used to the sound of their Realiser or Out Of Your Head. Head tracking can be helpful initially, but once your brain is acclimated to the virtual speakers, the head tracking is not required.
 
Thanks for trying Out Of Your Head,
 
-Darin

 

Thanks for responding so quickly!
 
Ah, that makes sense. Hum, so if I want to use spotify I'd need to add a 2 to 8 chanel upconverter between the media player (as spotify) and the OOYH virtual soundcard in the audio chain...but that might do more harm than good since it's not how the track was intended to be listened to.
 
Oh wow, so head measurement based calculations are already part of it? That's awesome! So if I did get properly done measurements and got them converted by you for use in OOYH it would produce very similar results to what the Realiser would do, just without head tracking (assuming the same speaker measurement is used on both systems)? Or does the Realiser perform a different set of calculations that may produce noticeably different effects?
 
I can also see the head tracking becoming a gimick after a while like you mentioned. It still seems like a fun illusion and probably helpful for understanding the illusion at first, but maybe more trouble than it's worth. And unnecessary in VR applications where audio automatically changes with head movement...and oh man VR with this kind of audio processing?... Drooling.
 
On a note relevant to using the software itself, I'm experiencing an issue with loud poping. While using the gaming effect it doesn't seem to come up, but in every other effect, some worse than others (home theater seems to be the worst offender) it seems to consistently happen on low frequencies (percussion mainly). The poping is a lot louder than the rest of the sound and is ear piercing, making using any effect but the gamer one a painful experience. I'm curious if I have something configured wrong. The dac I'm using is a Fiio e18 and I could post my computer specs of needed.

 

[darinf]

  Thanks for responding so quickly!
 
Ah, that makes sense. Hum, so if I want to use spotify I'd need to add a 2 to 8 chanel upconverter between the media player (as spotify) and the OOYH virtual soundcard in the audio chain...but that might do more harm than good since it's not how the track was intended to be listened to.
 
Oh wow, so head measurement based calculations are already part of it? That's awesome! So if I did get properly done measurements and got them converted by you for use in OOYH it would produce very similar results to what the Realiser would do, just without head tracking (assuming the same speaker measurement is used on both systems)? Or does the Realiser perform a different set of calculations that may produce noticeably different effects?
 
I can also see the head tracking becoming a gimick after a while like you mentioned. It still seems like a fun illusion and probably helpful for understanding the illusion at first, but maybe more trouble than it's worth. And unnecessary in VR applications where audio automatically changes with head movement...and oh man VR with this kind of audio processing?... Drooling.
 
On a note relevant to using the software itself, I'm experiencing an issue with loud poping. While using the gaming effect it doesn't seem to come up, but in every other effect, some worse than others (home theater seems to be the worst offender) it seems to consistently happen on low frequencies (percussion mainly). The poping is a lot louder than the rest of the sound and is ear piercing, making using any effect but the gamer one a painful experience. I'm curious if I have something configured wrong. The dac I'm using is a Fiio e18 and I could post my computer specs of needed.

 
Just to be clear, you do not need to have all content be 5.1 or 7.1. Out Of Your Head works really well on 2 channel content. Many Out Of Your Head customers use it only for 2 channel content. Just getting two channel music to have the same sound-stage as listening to speakers is a huge difference. that doesn't help and we can figure out 
 
Yes, if we do measurements or you have measurements done with a Realiser, then the sound of the custom preset in Out Of Your Head will be very similar to the sound from a Realiser. Most people can't tell the difference.
 
For the popping issue, I think you might be experiencing clipping. The best way to eliminate the clipping is to lower the output volume from your media player app. The media player app has to be set so that it adjusts the output volume internally. If it uses the Windows mixer to adjust volume, then that will not work since Out Of Your Head bypasses the Windows mixer.
 
If your app does not have an internal volume adjustment, then you can adjust the input levels down in the Out Of Your Head Control Panel. Just note that the levels in the Out Of Your Head Control panel are saved separately for each speaker preset. But this way you can adjust the presets that are clipping more separately from the others. 
 
But contact us directly via the contact form on our website if the adjustments don't help. We can figure out what's going on.
 
-Darin

 

[thekorsen]

Spoiler: Snip

Originally Posted by darinf /img/forum/go_quote.gif
   
Just to be clear, you do not need to have all content be 5.1 or 7.1. Out Of Your Head works really well on 2 channel content. Many Out Of Your Head customers use it only for 2 channel content. Just getting two channel music to have the same sound-stage as listening to speakers is a huge difference. that doesn't help and we can figure out 
 
Yes, if we do measurements or you have measurements done with a Realiser, then the sound of the custom preset in Out Of Your Head will be very similar to the sound from a Realiser. Most people can't tell the difference.
 
For the popping issue, I think you might be experiencing clipping. The best way to eliminate the clipping is to lower the output volume from your media player app. The media player app has to be set so that it adjusts the output volume internally. If it uses the Windows mixer to adjust volume, then that will not work since Out Of Your Head bypasses the Windows mixer.
 
If your app does not have an internal volume adjustment, then you can adjust the input levels down in the Out Of Your Head Control Panel. Just note that the levels in the Out Of Your Head Control panel are saved separately for each speaker preset. But this way you can adjust the presets that are clipping more separately from the others. 
 
But contact us directly via the contact form on our website if the adjustments don't help. We can figure out what's going on.
 
-Darin

 

Yeah, I know just using them in 2 channel works but I just wasn't sure if up converting stereo to 7.1 was a worthwhile endeavor or a common practice. Again, never played with speakers outside of a pair of altec lansing speakers I got when I was in middle school. The glory days when I was blissfully ignorant of amazing audio, when my wallet could rest easy. 

 
I'll definitely have to find a place to get my measurements on the east coast for this. Hopefully the next NY canjam will have a place to do it.
 
That volume fix did the trick, no more ear piercing poping! Thanks for the help on that one and thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions!

 

[thecrow]

darinf thanks for the info re the popping/clipping.
I had the same question last night. I'll try that out too

As feedback i really appreciate the trial offer as it is, as opposed to just a 14 day one.

Its great having it in play (for those who havent bought it yet) to try again as you buy new gear to use

 

[edwardsean]

  Yeah, I know just using them in 2 channel works but I just wasn't sure if up converting stereo to 7.1 was a worthwhile endeavor or a common practice. Again, never played with speakers outside of a pair of altec lansing speakers I got when I was in middle school. The glory days when I was blissfully ignorant of amazing audio, when my wallet could rest easy. 

 
I'll definitely have to find a place to get my measurements on the east coast for this. Hopefully the next NY canjam will have a place to do it.
 
That volume fix did the trick, no more ear piercing poping! Thanks for the help on that one and thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions!

Hey. I regularly use OOYH with 2 channel tracks and I'm deeply impressed with it as an audiophile level solution for stereo material. However, it is also truly brilliant with 5.1/7.1 sources for movies. I also have a clutch of music recordings that were mastered to 5.1. Some of it was done well and some of it was not converted as successfully. Sting, "Live in Berlin" is really well done. 
 
Having said that, like yourself, I really would like to upmix 2-channel to 5.1/7.1 to take full advantage of OOYH. I've been working on it for a while and so far have not found a chain I like. The JRiver upmixing feature is really artificial sounding, though you might want to give it a shot. I've trying out professional upmixing plugins like Auro, Penteo, and Illusonic. For me the bottleneck has been finding the right host software. I need something that can handle multichannel audio and stream Tidal. So far I don't know of anyone that's successfully assembled a good upmixing chain. 
 
If anyone has please do post it here. That would be great!

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I am not sure if everyone knows this, but the Netflix desktop app outputs most of its program material in Dolby True HD 5.1 channels, likewise Amazon Prime. Just use an HDMI cable to send the video output to your HD monitor, and set the Windows setting for sound to OOYH as your default sound.  Netflix and Amazon will then send the 5.1 channel audio program to OOYH with near zero latency, and OOYH will output directly to your DAC/Amp and then to your phones in glorious multi channel sound.  With good phones it sounds like a really good home theatre rig.  (love those spaceship flyovers!) No need to even use JRiver.

 

[thekorsen]

Spent the day using the 7.1 surround in OverWatch...oh my, I felt really bad for anyone who tried to sneak up behind me or get the drop on me by falling off a ledge above. Instant pinpoint location...on a TH-X00!?!? Absurd, these headphones always had a fog that made locating anything a blur, but now they seems more accurate than my alpha primes were when I had them. If that's the effect this has on these, I'd shutter to think how it will affect the HD800s I'll be getting next week. Expectations blown away.
 
I also had the chance to listen to dark side of the moon on Dolby digital 4.1, the soundstage and instrument separation was insane on certain configurations. Toggling the bypass on and off made one thing abundantly clear; this is truly the next step in headphone audio. The flavor on a lot of the effects just seemed a little off though, made it hard to believe the price tag on some of those models and how they held up compared to lesser priced siblings...but its unfair to judge on my measly current audio chain. 
 
I think its fair to say I'll be buying the full version...just need to patch up the hole those HD800s left in my wallet first. 

 

[phoenixdogfan]

A lot of that may depends on how close each of the presets are to your individual HRTF.  Everyone hears differently based on the shape of their heads, the shape of their pinnae, the topography of their ear canals, how sound reflects off their torso, et al ad nauseam.  All in all it means everyone hears each of those presets differently. As a result. some of the presets might not work for one person, but might sound convincing to someone else. I personally find that some of the very expensive speakers don;t work for me. On the other hand, the Magico Q7 presets are a home run for me.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

With the advent of the HD 800S, any number of online retail outlets are offering the original HD 800 at steep discounts. I picked up my pair at Amazon for $1k even.  I've since seen them as low as $850 brand new.
 
And if you do the  SD mod which costs around $25 and takes around 5 minutes, you will pretty much have what the "S" version gives you for $800 less.

 

[mhpsd]

  Please keep us all posted on how well its working especially with Netflix and 7 channel material.

My wallet took a hit and I am awaiting an i7 Surface 3.  I'll check it out with Netflix.  What material do you use for 7.1?
Mark

 

[phoenixdogfan]

MKV blue ray and DVD rips.