Orgy of Capacitors: The Cap Thread
Jul 31, 2009 at 4:54 PM Post #196 of 796
Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Soundcard /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Hello Jon, can you say what are the differences between an "entry" PiO from Ampohm - the Ampohm PiO Aluminium Foil - and the Obbligato Oil caps ?

(BTW, does Obbligato have more than one range of oil caps ?)



The black Obbligato caps are the "oil caps," but they are not paper-in-oil like AmpOhm tin or alum PIO. I believe they are polypropylene-in-oil, and I haven't tried them, only their non-oil film caps.
 
Jul 31, 2009 at 5:53 PM Post #197 of 796
Eh well, if anyone's heard them perhaps they can comment.

If not, does anyone have any "general experience" with polypropylene-in-oil types ? If so how would you say they sound "in general" compared to true PiO caps ?
 
Aug 3, 2009 at 3:27 AM Post #198 of 796
Jupiter Beewax Paper HT Capacitor

img1121z.jpg


While I have always liked the Juper Beewax capacitor’s sonics, the original version’s construction quality left a lot to be desired, especially its reported weakness in hot environments. It really did feel like a candlestick wrapped in paper and was not recommended to be used near hot tubes or resistors; however, its presentation was very pleasing and non-artificial, devoid of any plasticky signature or hype.

Fortunately, the Jupiter capacitor has been redesigned using a reinforced and improved beeswax paper as well as a non-drip casing rated for higher operating temperatures. The older version was not recommended for temperature greater than 110 F, but the new version is reported safe up to 176 F. In addition, all the new versions come with solid-silver leadout wires terminating the aluminum foil, whereas the older version came with either copper or silver wires. It really appears to be a completely new design, as one can see from the picture below of the old and new design in the same uF/voltage value.

img1122.jpg


The big question is, were they able to reduce the size and reinforce the construction, yet not lose any of the sonic charm of the original? I’m happy to report “yes” to that question along with some other observations. The old and new sound very, very similar, so much so it’s splitting hairs. Both still have a warm, dense, natural midrange with a lot of nice texturing and richness that’s not distant or cool. While not super-defined like teflons, the bass has that woody, unforced roundness many people seek for acoustic bass, and the overall gestalt builds the music from ground (bass) up. While those who love the treble presentation of teflons and polystyrenes may complain the Jupiter is not as sparkly and obviously airy, there is still a lot of treble information and detail present, especially up to mid-treble. Poor recordings that’s simply intolerable can find a measure of forgiveness with the Jupiter.

Is there any sonic difference with the new version? Well, it’s nothing to write home about, but the new version may have a touch smoother low-treble/upper-mids while the old version may be slightly more lively. While I do believe this smoother presentation in the upper-mids of the new version is due to more high treble extension, I would hesitate to bet any significant amount of money on anyone being able tell them apart reliably. Another confounding factor is that the old version I have has copper leadouts while the new ones all come with silver. It’s possible this alone could account for some of the perceived difference.

I have written before about how bypassing the old Jupiter with ERO KP1832 Polypropylene film and foil capacitor improves the hall ambience and air, and this still holds true for the new version. Listening closer this time, the improved upper harmonics also seems to make the bass appear tighter, which seems counter-intuitive but easily demonstrable by covering one’s tweeters and observing subjective loss of bass tightness. At any rate, Jupiter plus a good film and foil bypass remains one of my favorites for those who want a natural, earthy sound combined with detail.
 
Aug 4, 2009 at 3:46 PM Post #200 of 796
Yes, they're very nice.

Excuse the speaker's appearance, was using the books to determine which angle worked best for the TM section.

FYI, the CAST is a 6.8uf, VSF is 60uf, and the MR is 4.1uf.

Duelund%20CAST.jpg
 
Aug 12, 2009 at 10:16 PM Post #203 of 796
Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Soundcard /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Eh well, if anyone's heard them perhaps they can comment.

If not, does anyone have any "general experience" with polypropylene-in-oil types ? If so how would you say they sound "in general" compared to true PiO caps ?



In "general," IME polyprop in oil tends to have more apparent high-treble "air" and subjectively sounds faster than true PIO, which fight back with more dense tone and richness.

Another dark horse that flies under the radar are mylar-in-oil caps. Some of these things sound *VERRRY" interesting..
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Aug 14, 2009 at 4:53 AM Post #204 of 796
Should have looked 2 posts up. Whoops.

I approve of the Duelund keg size caps. They look like they need a fuse so I can set them off.
 
Aug 15, 2009 at 2:06 AM Post #206 of 796
Russian K75-10 Hybrid Paper and Polyethylene Terephthalate In Oil Capacitor

img1153.jpg


This Russian military capacitor is quite intriguing in its reported construction and in appearance that resembles a small grenade. Its dielectric is claimed to be a hybrid of paper and polyethylene terephthalate, which is essentially a type of mylar, saturated in oil. There is some debate as to which Russian "oil" capacitor is the best, and while K40Y is widely recognized and used, some report K75-10 is the premium oil capacitor out of the Russian military.

I can report that K75-10 sounds extremely unique, quite different from K40Y PIO and any other true PIO one cares to mention, including Vitamin Q, Jensen, and AmpOhm. It has a very saturated, colorful, textured, and detailed midrange that is thick and juicy. While PIO's are known for their natural and smooth midrange, K75 seems to add some jest, pop, and color to the proceedings, yielding an apparently more detailed and forceful presentation. Treble and bass is pretty good, especially for an oil cap, but the leading edges are not razor-sharp and precise like premium film caps. Since the midrange is so involving and palpable, the lack of equal force in treble makes it seem a bit dark overall, but as one increases the volume, this becomes less of an issue, and poorly-recorded music is much more tolerable at higher volume.

The sound is rather addicting in its presentation and can even be called delicious in what it does well, kind of reminiscent of biting into a ripe peach. The line dividing "colorful" and "colored" is thin, and while K75-10 likely leans a bit to the latter, I quite enjoy its substantial sound and prefer it to the thin, plasticky sound many other capacitors represent.
 
Aug 19, 2009 at 3:15 PM Post #208 of 796
hello
this has been agrat read and intresting thread,and jon l discriptions on the capacitors i have has been spot on,so well done there.
i would like to say i have found a great combination regarding caps,if not alittle expensive!
ive been using ampohn 2.2uf pio caps,there great but like alot of pio caps i found the treble slightly recessed and the focus not very tight,and in my system my mid-bass seemed to also be alittle shy.
anyway i bypassed this cap with a mundorf silver in oil that i had lying around...the result....ive been up all night digging out the cd collection and going thro them as if there all new to me....in my system and to these ears im well impressed,tighter focus,massive dynamics and a solid mid-bass but still with the magic of pio.
i was just wondering if there is a ideal size value to use as a bypass cap on a 2.2uf cap,im using 0.47 which i realise could be alittle bit big for the job,but as thats all i had around,thats what i used!!
any views on values regarding bypass values?
once again,great work/effort jon l
all the best
smithie
 
Aug 19, 2009 at 5:03 PM Post #210 of 796
Quote:

Originally Posted by denging /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Could anybody here explain to me where exactly do the russians military apply their exotic capacitors? Hi-end mil-spec stereophonic misile radar?


I'm just guessing here, but I believe the usage are more on Radar, Sonar and Submarine equipment. Bybees are one example of something that was coined for the stated purpose. =)
 

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