[4ktvs]

We went with the capacitive track pad because we really liked the idea of having no moving parts. Ive seen cheap buttons and switches fail many times and I thought the touchpad was a pretty slick solution. That said, I do own a pair of B&O H7s and I find myself accidentally making the "redial" gesture and calling people when I don't intend to... That is super frustrating. We are trying to program the gestures to avoid accidentally activating anything but a Kickstarter backer also had a good suggestion that we might implement: Providing a "lock" and "unlock" gesture so that you can handle them without any accidental gestures.

I think capacitive buttons would work better as getting touch gestures to work correctly all the time is very hard to do software wise. It's honestly what I thought the headphone used until looking into it more closely.

Hardware buttons also just tend to be faster and I enjoy being able to get something done the moment I want it done without waiting for delays.

I also 2nd the idea of a button for locking/unlocking the touchpad if it could be done. That would solve many of the issues people run into with it.

 

[Roll]

It is over, but one can still buy her as "InDemand/PreOrder" at

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ora-the-world-s-first-graphene-headphones-audio#/

 

[AlwaysForward]

Kickstarter quote:
"ORA Graphene Audio Creator 2 days ago
@Remy Bautistalee
Thanks for backing our project! We discuss this a bit on our Facebook Live video. We are considering adding an app that would allow additional features like EQ that are not available from the gesture controls track pad and we appreciate suggestions like this that can help us continue to improve our product and our user’s experience."

That's really exciting. If you do add EQ, can you make the EQ app work in Both USBC and wireless modes?

 

[Sinocelt]

I've done ribbon microphones for AEA.

Interesting. Could GrapheneQ be used to make a ribbon? Could it be used instead of Mylar in the capsules of condenser microphones?

 

[Roll]

Interesting. Could GrapheneQ be used to make a ribbon? Could it be used instead of Mylar in the capsules of condenser microphones?

Graphene Oxide Based Materials as Acoustic Transducers: A Ribbon Microphone Application Case Study

This paper costs $33 for non-members and is free for AES members and E-Library subscribers.

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=17467

Was mention on
http://positive-feedback.com/show-reports/aes-2014-show-report/

In Graphene Oxide Based Materials as Acoustic Transducers: A Ribbon Microphone Application Case Study, Peter Gaskell and others from McGill University look into using aluminum-coated graphene oxide film as a ribbon microphone element.

They find some physical advantages to the graphene but find that the high resistance is a major problem. Preprint 9144.

 

[Sinocelt]

Good find, Roll! I'd been able to find some information on graphene for condenser microphones, but not for ribbon microphones.

• Graphene electrostatic microphone and ultrasonic radio
• Multilayer graphene condenser microphone

Both articles were published in 2015 and focus on the ability of graphene capsules to extend into ultrasonic frequencies. The first study used a capsule that didn't extend into low frequencies, but the second used a capsule that extended nicely both ways.

Of course, extended, flat frequency response is only part of the what makes a good microphone (some microphones include an engineered bump, usually in the highs, but that's another kettle of fish). But another advantage would apparently be the high sensitivity of the capsule:

In conclusion, we demonstrate multilayer graphene microphones with a performance comparable to professional microphones. A microphone with a 60 layer graphene membrane displays up to 15 dB higher sensitivity compared to a commercial microphone, at frequencies up to 11 kHz. Finite element simulations confirm graphene microphone sensitivity and cutoff, and indicate that a microphone with a 300 layer graphene membrane would show similar sensitivity as state of the art condenser microphones, but with a frequency range extended up to 1 MHz, deeply entering the ultrasonic part of the spectrum. Our work paves the way for the use of widely available and inexpensive graphene in acoustics and touches upon the important ultrasound part of the spectrum, unreachable by the conventional state of the art microphones. Further improvements in graphene production
quality will be a crucial benefit to the design of large membrane multilayer graphene microphone and its applications.

 

[AlwaysForward]

I was just thinking about these and what if the drivers really are equal or superior to Beryllium. If they live up to that promise and are well tuned/built. And then kind of fantasizing about how ORA could make my "perfect" open back next. I know it's a little silly to talk about this when they haven't delivered the first set yet but the impressions seem to highlight Planar style characteristics in the sound, which sounds a bit like the descriptions of the utopia Beryllium drivers. Now the Focal has a really innovative design and I'm not saying this would be technically superior but if it's close, that's where the sweet spot would be.

Ok, so let's assume in a perfect world that these drivers at least equal Beryllium Performance for my little design brainstorm. And let's assume that ORA makes another pair that's open back. And let's also assume they keep an eye on innovation, value and construction quality.

So what would this ideal pair look like for me? They'd be kind of like what you'd get if the Focal Utopia/Elear & ORA had a baby with a few next gen tweaks:

To start, this would continue to have onboard electronics. Including wireless. But since this headphone is far in the future, let's imagine it's a 2018 headphone coming along right around the time Bluetooth implements lossless in it's native codecs. So we're starting off with an open back lossless wireless design. And the efficiency of the drivers could make this sound/perform RIGHT.

They'd keep the 300mw+ large onboard amplifier but focus on it as a perfectly matched custom amp for this design. They'd also put a high quality DAC onboard. Maybe the TOTL Sabre or something like that. And have DSP similar to the Audeze Cipher Cable with a perfectly corrected curve to start and then user EQ beyond that. This would all be bypassed in the analog input for people who want to use other sources. They'd maybe up the driver size to 50mm, just because it's a flagship.

So the end result would kind of be like a focal elear with lossless wireless and a complete self enclosed hi-fi rig.

If that could be done for under $1k to compete with the Elear while having improved sound and ultimate rig simplicity, it'd be one of the biggest shocks to wireless audio and hi-fi headphones.

It's all just a fun fantasy to write about but I could legit see it happening at the same time.

 

[gr8soundz]

I think it's fine to talk about these new drivers vs. Beryllium. Especially since Beryllium is so toxic. Even if I could afford the Utopia I doubt I'd want that stuff so close to my ears.

We don't know of any potential dangers with Graphene though. For instance, being another form of stronger Carbon, do Graphene particles have the same potential as Carbon fiber to cause cancer?

I was also thinking along the same lines of potential planar-like sound from such rigid drivers. Should be interesting years ahead assuming other manufacturers join in on the tech.

 

[AlwaysForward]

I think it's fine to talk about these new drivers vs. Beryllium. Especially since Beryllium is so toxic. Even if I could afford the Utopia I doubt I'd want that stuff so close to my ears.

We don't know of any potential dangers with Graphene though. For instance, being another form of stronger Carbon, do Graphene particles have the same potential as Carbon fiber to cause cancer.

I was also thinking along the same lines of potential planar-like sound from such rigid drivers. Should be interesting years ahead assuming other manufacturers join in on the tech.

Yeah that Beryllium comparison really has my imagination going with the idea of planar-like dynamics because dynamic designs have "impact" that Planars just can't deliver. Getting the best of both worlds would be super cool with all the other advantages this has over Beryllium like price and efficiency.

That's a good point about it being a new unknown material. Just did some searching on the carbon dangers and it sounds like you don't want to inhale the dust. Sounds like a pretty low risk when the carbon is molecularly bonded. If a driver exploded that could be bad but drivers don't really do that when they fail.

 

[daltonlanny]

By the way,
how exactly does GrapheneQ compare to Beryllium in stiffness to mass ratio, Youngs Modulus, damping, etc?

 

[Haris Javed]

That's all Cool and stuff, but any white papers by the manufacture on Mechanical properties of Graphene and how it betters the sound or increases efficiency? I did some work at my university with material physics, and no one focused on acoustical properties of graphene, it was always in context of electrical /electromagnetic properties - which can also lead to some mechanical properties that can be observed, but no one cared about sound - so I want to know what makes these headphones so special besides the use of Graphene. I know lighter / stiffer materials will change wave propagation, but I would like to see actual response model, what methods were used to calculate propagation through the driver - I guess I am asking for some PDE simulations (methods/models/parameters). This sounds like a break through in audio.

 

[Midgetguy]

That's all Cool and stuff, but any white papers by the manufacture on Mechanical properties of Graphene and how it betters the sound or increases efficiency? I did some work at my university with material physics, and no one focused on acoustical properties of graphene, it was always in context of electrical /electromagnetic properties - which can also lead to some mechanical properties that can be observed, but no one cared about sound - so I want to know what makes these headphones so special besides the use of Graphene. I know lighter / stiffer materials will change wave propagation, but I would like to see actual response model, what methods were used to calculate propagation through the driver - I guess I am asking for some PDE simulations (methods/models/parameters). This sounds like a break through in audio.

That's what people are hailing this new material as: a revolutionary breakthrough. I personally wouldn't understand any of of the stats it because I know nothing about material physics or audio stats, but I agree that getting some of this info would be good.....as long as it isn't breaching any sort of trade secret. Good to get info within reason. After all, this is their own material. There are some things they're going to need to keep from the public in order to keep their edge on the graphene market. It's not only about who's earlier to the market, but who has the best implementation and production structure. Ora's looking pretty strong so far. Let's hope they keep it up so that we may have hope of a future iteration, perhaps of an open headphone like @AlwaysForward is dreaming about

 

[AlwaysForward]

That's all Cool and stuff, but any white papers by the manufacture on Mechanical properties of Graphene and how it betters the sound or increases efficiency? I did some work at my university with material physics, and no one focused on acoustical properties of graphene, it was always in context of electrical /electromagnetic properties - which can also lead to some mechanical properties that can be observed, but no one cared about sound - so I want to know what makes these headphones so special besides the use of Graphene. I know lighter / stiffer materials will change wave propagation, but I would like to see actual response model, what methods were used to calculate propagation through the driver - I guess I am asking for some PDE simulations (methods/models/parameters). This sounds like a break through in audio.

By the way,
how exactly does GrapheneQ compare to Beryllium in stiffness to mass ratio, Youngs Modulus, damping, etc?

This goes pretty in depth starting at page 129: http://www.gotomylis.com/ (Download the PDF)

• On Page 132 "State of the Art" section: they get into the comparing Graphene Q's physical properties to Beryllium, Mylar, Aluminium, CVD Diamond & Titanium. They use Young's Modulus and something ORA calls the "Figure of Merit" in a comparison table.
• I'm guessing because ability to modify the density of the layers and thickness of the material is the reason they have a FOM range of CVD Diamond to past Beryllium for their FOM. I wonder where these headphones fall. Hopefully ORA can chime in on the FOM for the drivers.

 

[DixieLandBlues]

Question for Head-Fiers: Having just joined in via IndieGoGo, how many others here have taken a chance on per-ordering the Ora GQs, and now gets to savor the 7-8 month wait for that aural graphene goodness to arrive in the post?

 

[Haris Javed]

This goes pretty in depth starting at page 129: http://www.gotomylis.com/ (Download the PDF)

• On Page 132 "State of the Art" section: they get into the comparing Graphene Q's physical properties to Beryllium, Mylar, Aluminium, CVD Diamond & Titanium. They use Young's Modulus and something ORA calls the "Figure of Merit" in a comparison table.
• I'm guessing because ability to modify the density of the layers and thickness of the material is the reason they have a FOM range of CVD Diamond to past Beryllium for their FOM. I wonder where these headphones fall. Hopefully ORA can chime in on the FOM for the drivers.

Yes I am looking more into this - My semester starts again in Sept - I will also discuss this with other folks at the university. Couple of people with me are getting their MS or PhD in material science - I am working towards MS in Physics, so I am really interested in what is brought to the table here by ORA. Audio Industry is weird, you can have all the measurements in the world but people care more about the experience. Not sure if any of you remember this.

http://headfonics.com/2015/12/the-heron-5-by-arist-audio/

This was designed by people with PhD's and priced at 2K when new, but people thought it was OK