ORA GrapheneQ - The world's first Graphene driver headphone
Mar 10, 2020 at 5:26 PM Post #901 of 1,288
May I ask what amp or DAP you are using? I've only tried with the Questyle which IMO is excellent, but maybe my results would be different with another unit. Perhaps I'll give them a whirl with the Fiio M11 (also very good, but sounds flat and a bit bright with much less nuance compared to the Questyle).

Really loving these Oras so far though ...
I've really only tried them wireless, through an ES100, and a btr5. I actually just started using them wired out of my Samsung s9+ based on the recommendation of the guy above, and I think it's my favorite pairing so far. Unfortunately I'm maxed out on my phone volume. Id like maybe 1 or two ticks louder. I think synergy is very important for these headphones, the low distortion makes the differences in gear more readily apparent. I don't hate these headphones btw, I'm just on the search for the perfect sound for them. Might try more sources and maybe some pad swaps. I have a thx 789/ smsl su8 combo but honestly I rarely use headphones at a desk, most of the time it's through a phone. So another portable dac/amp, Bluetooth device, or dap is probably what I would cycle through
 
Mar 10, 2020 at 5:28 PM Post #902 of 1,288
RIP...

I handed my ORA's to a friend to test out and while adjusting the cups/band snapped the plastic sliders...

So before you lend your new ORA's to anyone, let them know that fit is an issue and not to try to extend or bend the sliders beyond their "max" capacity.
Rip. Sorry to hear that. He tried to extend the short headband sliders past the maximum? Unfortunately people not of this hobby tend to be rough with headphones, you gotta make sure they baby them
 
Mar 10, 2020 at 7:05 PM Post #903 of 1,288
I've really only tried them wireless, through an ES100, and a btr5. I actually just started using them wired out of my Samsung s9+ based on the recommendation of the guy above, and I think it's my favorite pairing so far. Unfortunately I'm maxed out on my phone volume. Id like maybe 1 or two ticks louder. I think synergy is very important for these headphones, the low distortion makes the differences in gear more readily apparent. I don't hate these headphones btw, I'm just on the search for the perfect sound for them. Might try more sources and maybe some pad swaps. I have a thx 789/ smsl su8 combo but honestly I rarely use headphones at a desk, most of the time it's through a phone. So another portable dac/amp, Bluetooth device, or dap is probably what I would cycle through
Got it.

I've never tried these wireless since I have found with other wireless cans and earphones that bluetooth can be a hit or miss proposition at best. Just yesterday using an older high quality, but non-bluetooth dap wireless via a 3rd party bluetooth transmitter to my Sony wf-1000 xm3 wireless iems I got a similar weird bass disconnected from the rest of the spectrum situation. I honestly could not believe how bad it sounded versus using my phone wirelessly directly to the Sony.

Do yourself a favor and try them wired with a high quality dap if you can.
 
Mar 10, 2020 at 7:37 PM Post #905 of 1,288
Got it.

I've never tried these wireless since I have found with other wireless cans and earphones that bluetooth can be a hit or miss proposition at best. Just yesterday using an older high quality, but non-bluetooth dap wireless via a 3rd party bluetooth transmitter to my Sony wf-1000 xm3 wireless iems I got a similar weird bass disconnected from the rest of the spectrum situation. I honestly could not believe how bad it sounded versus using my phone wirelessly directly to the Sony.

Do yourself a favor and try them wired with a high quality dap if you can.
Very strange how things synergize. On some things my fiio btr5 sounds kinda off and maybe not enough bass, while on other things it sounds amazing. For my Sony mdr1a, KZ ZSX iems, and using it as a preamp for my car stereo, they all sound amazing. It doesn't seem to like the Ora GQ though. I tried my fiio q1mk2 dac/amp it it also didnt sound great. Currently straight from my phone is the best pairing. I'm sure my desktop stack sounds good, but I like to listen to music on my couch and moving around. Maybe the qudelix 5k when that releases. Or if I can find a good dap for cheap. I'd rather not use a dac amp because then I can't charge my phone while using it. I wonder how tube amps would sound on the Ora?
 
Mar 10, 2020 at 8:29 PM Post #906 of 1,288
I just tested using the tone generator here https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

In regards to one of my previous posts regarding the artifacts that could be heard at high frequencies, from about 8k up (sounded kind of like rain is what I mentioned). I can confirm that those artifacts only exist in the built in wireless mode of the headphones. I only have a Samsung android so I can only test with aptx and not aptx HD, so I can not confirm if those artifacts go away with aptx HD. So it is either just the aptx codec being inferior to aptx HD, or whatever Bluetooth dac amp is implemented in the headphones.

Using the headphones wired out of my phone, es100, and btr5 the artifacts don't exist. It could be the resolving nature of these headphones exposing the lower quality Bluetooth codec. (es100 and btr5 both use LDAC and there aren't any artifacts)
 
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Mar 10, 2020 at 10:03 PM Post #907 of 1,288
I just ordered the Meizu HiFi DAC Pro since it is low profile, apparently sounds good, and has a Cirrus brand chip which my phone also has and I think pairs well with the ORA. (the Meizu uses the Cirrus CS43131 and my phone uses the Cirrus CS47L93) This should give me more power headroom than my phone. I will report back whenever that arrives
 
Mar 10, 2020 at 10:37 PM Post #908 of 1,288
Idk something about the bass isn't quite how I like it, it's hard to pinpoint. I'm thinking a pad swap might help it though. I'll admit I'm bass picky though. Something about this bass is large in quantity but lacking in punch. I think i experienced something similar with the Modhouse Argons, another set with bass that is large in quantity but imo lacks punch. I prefer the puncher bass on my Sony mdr1a, and even the bass on my emu purplehearts, even if they don't extend quite as low. I might by a pair of fenestrated pads for the Ora to see how it sounds though

2questions I’m curious about if the quantity is in range for ya:

1: do you have high quality subwoofer(s) at home?
2: which headphones have the bass performance you prefer?
 
Mar 10, 2020 at 11:10 PM Post #910 of 1,288
2questions I’m curious about if the quantity is in range for ya:

1: do you have high quality subwoofer(s) at home?
2: which headphones have the bass performance you prefer?
It seems like source has had an impact on how these sound, so I'm testing for good synergy with different things. I have a sony core series subwoofer in my surround sound. The Sony mdr1a has similar bass quantity but more punch and impact to the bass. The emu Purplehearts don't extend quite as low as the Sony but the bass they have has a nice pleasing reverberance to it. The hifiman sundara has a similar pleasing bass sound, even if it's not a subbass monster. I didn't like the bass on the Modhouse argons and meze 99 neo as example of headphones with bass I didn't like. I also didnt like the Sennheiser hd58x much in general.

But these headphones are growing on me I must say, I may try more sources and pads.

Oh and I forgot to say (because it's an iem) I looooove the way the KZ ZSX sound. Practically perfect bass quantity and punch for my tastes.
 
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Mar 11, 2020 at 12:12 AM Post #911 of 1,288
I feel it may be appropriate to share my musical experience and perspective here for readers of my positive initial impressions:

I’m a musician, I’ve been playing guitar for 20 years. I was very serious for a decade or so. I’ve spent countless hours around real instruments and studios. I worked at a guitar center for 5 years and was exposed to extensive formal training in that time. I’m an incredibly ambitious individual & can confidently say that my learning during that time came equally from the networking and community I met along with my day to day. I’ve spent time as a live music “Audio Engineer” but I’m close enough to truly trained engineers to not qualify myself on that spectrum.

I have been exposed, nonetheless, to countless real world experiences that inform my approach to evaluating audio that often is diametrically opposed to the narrative from the audiophile community.

One of my “tone mentors” used to tech for EVH himself, as a point of reference. I really believe that while I lack formal audio engineering training that I have had enough feedback-rich experiences and specifically contrasting feedback that I have well informed opinion of sound reproduction; From end to end, not just as a consumer. From mic selection and mic placement to rooms & pre-amp coloring, to board and mixing and how monitors affect the final mix.

IMHO, sound reproduction is a very complex and interesting topic. Ultimately, we will never be able to truly hear what(musician) sounded like in a room on a particular day. We just have whatever is left from the capture & post process. Which, anecdotally, is often like photoshop. For musicians.

I found the “audiophile community” right around when I began my journey into exploring electronic music. To my ears, much of the feedback and options is “uncalibrated.”

While I’m no Bob Katz, I feel he and I have a similar take on the LCD4/Utopia comparison. Inn my opinion, For the Ora, this matters; most of “the community” prefers the Utopia over the LCD4. At the same price. This is purely an impression from reading countless impressions and real world experiences interacting with audiophiles and comparing the two in real life, right there in-person.

My current takeaway somewhat mirrors that of Sean Olive: most headphones simply lack Sufficient bass (https://twitter.com/seanolive/status/1223707631824424960?s=21) and that the conversation has spun out of control without real world support. It’s an echo chamber of sorts; terminology that’s developed to ascribe and prescribe performance values in a self-referential manner.

This is not to put Mr Olive on a pedistal. My Roomate is a highly accomplished musician, much more than I. We both felt the AKG N5005 didn’t live up to expectations on paper. Though we both agree that the Audeze isine series and Bose Soundsport (yes) strike closer to the truth in our ears. And we also agree that these “sound great in excess of internet expectations”

Given the above and my early experience with these headphones, it really does make me question where I fit in the audiophile spectrum... if that’s a thing.

We should also consider @robert-Eric’s background:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/regaskell as a world class expert here. Sean Olive may be more accomplished in headphone response research but they have enough overlap to qualify as more similar to each other than the average listener. Experience or no.

This is where Josh Valour’s review comes back into the conversation. He is a very likable person and seems to be a clear thinker. My read is that his opinion of sound is largely compromised of reference experience within “the hobby” and may lack the real world experiences reflected in my narrative.


A point of clarification I’d like to make: mids are the center & soul of music. While they are not the focus in this tuning, they are far from lacking. Many popular headphones place emphasis on mids yet sacrifice low/high performance.

All of this is to point back to my current impressions: these are too bass heavy for someone who went through the traditional audiophile journey. I have a personal hypothesis that most headphone enthusiasts are seeking something more like bookshelves or towers that start rolling off significantly earlier than 20hz.

These are certainly not perfect. The best headphone sound I’ve heard is an LCD4 with Reveal. But for the price of admission and what I’m hearing acoustically out of my phone, these are mighty impressive.
 
Mar 11, 2020 at 12:50 AM Post #912 of 1,288
I feel it may be appropriate to share my musical experience and perspective here for readers of my positive initial impressions:

I’m a musician, I’ve been playing guitar for 20 years. I was very serious for a decade or so. I’ve spent countless hours around real instruments and studios. I worked at a guitar center for 5 years and was exposed to extensive formal training in that time. I’m an incredibly ambitious individual & can confidently say that my learning during that time came equally from the networking and community I met along with my day to day. I’ve spent time as a live music “Audio Engineer” but I’m close enough to truly trained engineers to not qualify myself on that spectrum.

I have been exposed, nonetheless, to countless real world experiences that inform my approach to evaluating audio that often is diametrically opposed to the narrative from the audiophile community.

One of my “tone mentors” used to tech for EVH himself, as a point of reference. I really believe that while I lack formal audio engineering training that I have had enough feedback-rich experiences and specifically contrasting feedback that I have well informed opinion of sound reproduction; From end to end, not just as a consumer. From mic selection and mic placement to rooms & pre-amp coloring, to board and mixing and how monitors affect the final mix.

IMHO, sound reproduction is a very complex and interesting topic. Ultimately, we will never be able to truly hear what(musician) sounded like in a room on a particular day. We just have whatever is left from the capture & post process. Which, anecdotally, is often like photoshop. For musicians.

I found the “audiophile community” right around when I began my journey into exploring electronic music. To my ears, much of the feedback and options is “uncalibrated.”

While I’m no Bob Katz, I feel he and I have a similar take on the LCD4/Utopia comparison. Inn my opinion, For the Ora, this matters; most of “the community” prefers the Utopia over the LCD4. At the same price. This is purely an impression from reading countless impressions and real world experiences interacting with audiophiles and comparing the two in real life, right there in-person.

My current takeaway somewhat mirrors that of Sean Olive: most headphones simply lack Sufficient bass (https://twitter.com/seanolive/status/1223707631824424960?s=21) and that the conversation has spun out of control without real world support. It’s an echo chamber of sorts; terminology that’s developed to ascribe and prescribe performance values in a self-referential manner.

This is not to put Mr Olive on a pedistal. My Roomate is a highly accomplished musician, much more than I. We both felt the AKG N5005 didn’t live up to expectations on paper. Though we both agree that the Audeze isine series and Bose Soundsport (yes) strike closer to the truth in our ears. And we also agree that these “sound great in excess of internet expectations”

Given the above and my early experience with these headphones, it really does make me question where I fit in the audiophile spectrum... if that’s a thing.

We should also consider @robert-Eric’s background:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/regaskell as a world class expert here. Sean Olive may be more accomplished in headphone response research but they have enough overlap to qualify as more similar to each other than the average listener. Experience or no.

This is where Josh Valour’s review comes back into the conversation. He is a very likable person and seems to be a clear thinker. My read is that his opinion of sound is largely compromised of reference experience within “the hobby” and may lack the real world experiences reflected in my narrative.


A point of clarification I’d like to make: mids are the center & soul of music. While they are not the focus in this tuning, they are far from lacking. Many popular headphones place emphasis on mids yet sacrifice low/high performance.

All of this is to point back to my current impressions: these are too bass heavy for someone who went through the traditional audiophile journey. I have a personal hypothesis that most headphone enthusiasts are seeking something more like bookshelves or towers that start rolling off significantly earlier than 20hz.

These are certainly not perfect. The best headphone sound I’ve heard is an LCD4 with Reveal. But for the price of admission and what I’m hearing acoustically out of my phone, these are mighty impressive.
Im not an old rich audiophile who's been through the paces on crazy loudspeaker setups etc lol. I honestly thought I preferred bass more than I do when I first entered the hobby. That's the reason I ordered the Modhouse Argons and shyed away from stuff like the Hd650, I didn't want rolled off bass, I assumed I loved bass. I still don't really like the bass of the hd650, but dear lord the bass of the Argons are just too much. I definitely prefer the ORA bass over the Argon bass. The argons would give me bass fatigue. Something about those bassy closed planars had massive bass quantity but simultaneously lacked slam. Idk it was weird.

The Sony Mdr1a and ORA have similar bass quantity and extension, but a different presentation. The mdr1a has more of a punch and the ORA has a softer punch with more of a rumble. The ORA bass actually seems well suited for movies I've found. Bassy parts of movies give me a rumble feel that honestly reminds me of when I watch movies in a movie theater. I've also been playing some video games with the ORA and I think they fit them very well.

I honestly didn't think I would like the hifiman sundara because of reports of a subbass rolloff etc but when I demoed it in person there was an extremely pleasing feeling to the bass. It was hard to describe, I really liked it, even if it wasn't as bassy as some other things I tried.
I've discovered bass quality definitely takes precedence over quantity for the most part, and that it really is a balancing act. When you hit the goldilocks zone though it sounds amazing.

PS: Thanks for the phone reccomendation I prefer how these sound out of my phone over the built in wireless, and out of my es100 or btr5. I just ordered a Meizu dac Pro that also uses a Cirrus chip so hopefully I can get more power while maintaining good synergy
 
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Mar 11, 2020 at 2:47 AM Post #913 of 1,288
Im not an old rich audiophile who's been through the paces on crazy loudspeaker setups etc lol. I honestly thought I preferred bass more than I do when I first entered the hobby. That's the reason I ordered the Modhouse Argons and shyed away from stuff like the Hd650, I didn't want rolled off bass, I assumed I loved bass. I still don't really like the bass of the hd650, but dear lord the bass of the Argons are just too much. I definitely prefer the ORA bass over the Argon bass. The argons would give me bass fatigue. Something about those bassy closed planars had massive bass quantity but simultaneously lacked slam. Idk it was weird.

The Sony Mdr1a and ORA have similar bass quantity and extension, but a different presentation. The mdr1a has more of a punch and the ORA has a softer punch with more of a rumble. The ORA bass actually seems well suited for movies I've found. Bassy parts of movies give me a rumble feel that honestly reminds me of when I watch movies in a movie theater. I've also been playing some video games with the ORA and I think they fit them very well.

I honestly didn't think I would like the hifiman sundara because of reports of a subbass rolloff etc but when I demoed it in person there was an extremely pleasing feeling to the bass. It was hard to describe, I really liked it, even if it wasn't as bassy as some other things I tried.
I've discovered bass quality definitely takes precedence over quantity for the most part, and that it really is a balancing act. When you hit the goldilocks zone though it sounds amazing.

PS: Thanks for the phone reccomendation I prefer how these sound out of my phone over the built in wireless, and out of my es100 or btr5. I just ordered a Meizu dac Pro that also uses a Cirrus chip so hopefully I can get more power while maintaining good synergy


Great points. Maybe you do love bass and your experience with headphones has tuned your perception of sound reproduction? The feeling of subwoofer driven bass that actually rumbles and slaps is unique and reserved for moving-air that pressurizes a room. We have things like sub-packs and what-not available for on the go but... yuck. Yes, I think watching movies is a great test for headphones. Most people have spent 1000+ hours over many years in Dolby/THX tuned theaters watching them and have a clear understanding of what it should sound like in a good room, on a good system. If Harman has a target, it's to tune the frequency to be closer to that than bookshelf nearfield experiences, to paint a contrast and anchor a perception.

I've never heard the Mdr1a. It seems to measure quite well on RTINGS. I can see how they would have similar bass. I wonder if the qualities in your description can be attributed to frequency response & thd. The low-mid dip vs low-mid rise seems small but can cause quite a contrast. Play around with it on an EQ. The effect of dipping around there makes bass sound more isolated and "punchy"

The Sundara is an outstanding headphone. Top to bottom. I felt it significantly outperformed many headphones 2-3x the price, due to it's frequency response. Every single instrument comes alive on those things. I do prefer DSP-shaped Audeze overall but that thing sounds truly excellent right out of an amp.

That Meizu measures pretty well! I might check it out! Let us know your thoughts/impressions!
 
Mar 11, 2020 at 11:48 AM Post #915 of 1,288
RIP...

I handed my ORA's to a friend to test out and while adjusting the cups/band snapped the plastic sliders...

So before you lend your new ORA's to anyone, let them know that fit is an issue and not to try to extend or bend the sliders beyond their "max" capacity.

I wonder if he tried folding them? Many headphones can be folded in half or the cups folded. And the fact that the cups rotate flat on the Oras, I can easily see if someone who doesn’t know any better sees that the cups rotate and they assume that the cups can be folded in too. Then SNAP!

CB612DB9-4EB7-4B4D-B37F-9FF72DE23FE6.gif
 
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