[Planarman]

The cable I was talking about is a prototype of their IEM cable where they used 3.5mm connectors on each side, it's not for sale but I just wanted to mention about sound improvement, and perhaps hear what other cables people are using.  Also, you probably misread my comment, this cable has a lot of microphonics which is an effect of cable rubbing against your cloth and the noise amplified going into your earcup.  Most of this has to do with a jacket of the cable, and type and material of the connector housing (to dampen the noise). 

Oh I see. Thank you.

 

[Madmollusk]

  Got a longer version of Linum 3.5mm BaX cable (was using their 0.8m interconnect, while this one is 1.2m demo so I can have more "room") - it's simply amazing to hear a boost in sound quality while using it with PM-3, and it's not just a level of detail retrieval or authority of bass slam, but I'm hearing an expansion in soundstage (width, depth, and height).  This is just a demo unit they wanted me to take a listen to, and it's the usual thin Linum cable which is great for IEMs, but with PM-3 produces a lot of microphonics, plus needs a little better strain relief.  I gotta put some pressure on them to turn it into the final product with a better cable jacket and improved strain relief, so everybody else can benefit from its sound improvement!!!

Speaking of soundstage: I’m not sure if I’m a victim to the dreaded “expectation bias” phenomenon, but the Cayin C5 seems to have opened up the PM-3’s soundstage too. And now that the C5 has resolved my only PM-3 complaint, I can unequivocally say: the PM-3 amazes me in every way. Switching between the HE-500 and the PM-3, I can detect only subtle differences now (sonically speaking, these headphones, I swear, share a strong family resemblance). True, the HE-500 still projects a larger soundstage, but the size difference no longer seems in the least bit objectionable. I’m more convinced than ever: the PM-3 requires power and finesse to achieve its true potential. 

 

[twister6]

 

  Got a longer version of Linum 3.5mm BaX cable (was using their 0.8m interconnect, while this one is 1.2m demo so I can have more "room") - it's simply amazing to hear a boost in sound quality while using it with PM-3, and it's not just a level of detail retrieval or authority of bass slam, but I'm hearing an expansion in soundstage (width, depth, and height).  This is just a demo unit they wanted me to take a listen to, and it's the usual thin Linum cable which is great for IEMs, but with PM-3 produces a lot of microphonics, plus needs a little better strain relief.  I gotta put some pressure on them to turn it into the final product with a better cable jacket and improved strain relief, so everybody else can benefit from its sound improvement!!!

Speaking of soundstage: I’m not sure if I’m a victim to the dreaded “expectation bias” phenomenon, but the Cayin C5 seems to have opened up the PM-3’s soundstage too. And now that the C5 has resolved my only PM-3 complaint, I can unequivocally say: the PM-3 amazes me in every way. Switching between the HE-500 and the PM-3, I can detect only subtle differences now (sonically speaking, these headphones, I swear, share a strong family resemblance). True, the HE-500 still projects a larger soundstage, but the size difference no longer seems in the least bit objectionable. I’m more convinced than ever: the PM-3 requires power and finesse to achieve its true potential. 

 
Exactly!!!  Different types of drivers will respond differently to extra juice, but like you just discovered - PM-3 planar magnetic drivers bloom with extra power.  As I mentioned in my review, you can drive it "loud" to hear the sound even from a smartphone, but it will sound blah.  You can even hear a difference with HA-2 (by far my favorite pair up) when you switch from Lo to High gain while adjusting volume to the same loudness level.  The performance of the driver (from detail retrieval to dynamics and even soundstage) will improve with extra power.  C5 pair up is fantastic, especially when it comes to soundstage expansion, the strongest value added of that portable amp.

 

[lukeap69]

  let's not have this get out of hand. planarman is entitled to his own opinion. I personally don't agree, but that's totally chill
 
part of the joy of this hobby is exploring & finding the sound that suits you the best personally. really doesn't matter what other people think or rank headphones.

And we are also entitled to our opinion of his opinion! 

 

[AudioBear]

It's not about his opinion, of course he's totally entitled to love or hate whatever he likes and this is the place to say so.  It's how you say it that matters.  Saying that PM-3s are over-rated and over-priced in an aggressive manner is not the best way to win friends and influence people.  We've spent too much time discussing an outlyer with a minority opinion.  Perhaps that's what he wants, just to stir the pot a bit.  It has been bit of a love fest around here for the PM-3.  From my point of view, well-deserved. I think it's an amazing value that blows away phones costing considerably more.  Let's move on and ignore the static.  The PM-3 can't please everyone, we knew that.

 

[higbvuyb]

Everyone, please take a step back and we can go back to discussing these headphones.

Anyone know of any angled (90 or 45 degree) cables that fit the headphone end?

 

[miceblue]

Exactly!!!  Different types of drivers will respond differently to extra juice, but like you just discovered - PM-3 planar magnetic drivers bloom with extra power.  As I mentioned in my review, you can drive it "loud" to hear the sound even from a smartphone, but it will sound blah.  You can even hear a difference with HA-2 (by far my favorite pair up) when you switch from Lo to High gain while adjusting volume to the same loudness level.  The performance of the driver (from detail retrieval to dynamics and even soundstage) will improve with extra power.  C5 pair up is fantastic, especially when it comes to soundstage expansion, the strongest value added of that portable amp.

I don't think power output has anything to do with sound unless the amp is severely lacking in power to drive the headphones to sufficient levels. Rather, the design of the amplifier and what the signal goes through is what makes things sound different. I don't think anyone will say the FiiO E12 (880 mW, 5.3 Vrms, 165.8 mA max at 32 Ω) sounds better than the Objective 2 (613 mW, 4.49 Vrms, 136.2 max at 33 Ω). I certainly prefer the O2 to the E12 with the PM-3, and I still much prefer the HA-2 (220 mW, 2.65 Vrms, 82.9 mA at 32 Ω) or even JDS Labs C5 (31.8 mW, 1.01 Vrms, 31.5 mA max at 32 Ω) over the E12.

Most people would agree that a smartphone's headphone output isn't very optimised.


I really like the sound of the PM-3 through the LH Labs Pulse X Infinity (101.2 mW, 1.8 Vrms, 56.2 mA at 32 Ω) though and that has the least power output (lowest gain) of the aforementioned amps except for the JDS Labs C5.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIAqtblSmjQ[/video]



I've tried the Objective 2 against an Emotiva Mini X A100 (50 watts into 8 Ω) with a beta HIFIMAN HE1000 unit and in blind tests, the differences were extremely small.

 

[higbvuyb]

Gain is mostly relevant to where you set the volume knob (aside from clipping, which is obvious).
The power going into the headphone is strictly limited by the voltage input and the headphone impedance by Ohm's law. At the same voltage, the power is the same whether the gain switch is set high or low (unless the design is flawed).

You cannot give the driver 'more power' without it also being louder.

 

[lukeap69]

Found this on ebay - balanced cable for ALO/RSA connection
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Handmade-Dyson-Audio-SPOCC-Oppo-PM-3-Balanced-Cable-2-Meter-RSA-ALO-TRRS-/351456772442?hash=item51d474c15a

 

[rwalkerphl]

Found this on ebay - balanced cable for ALO/RSA connection

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Handmade-Dyson-Audio-SPOCC-Oppo-PM-3-Balanced-Cable-2-Meter-RSA-ALO-TRRS-/351456772442?hash=item51d474c15a

I have several cables from Jeff (including this one), and they are well made and good value.

 

[michaelgordon]

after it has a good 12 hours overnight playing music i think they sound a little better vocals seem more present and im getting detail ive not heard before.  I dont know if its me or something has changed in the actual headphone but i like them, i was enjoying listening to them so much so i have boxed up both my HP150s & HP200s in order to sell.  Now i just have to decide which amp to get.
 
from @twister6 review ive narrowed it down to the Cayin C5 or the HA2.  I can get the C5 for £110 or the HA2 at £249.  Anyone that has tried both, is the HA2 such a significant upgrade over the C5 that would justify spending more than double?
 
Also on the cable question.  What would be a decent cable.  Only have a Fiio X3ii but ill be looking to upgrade this to something else but not sure what i like the look of the astell&kern but they are very expensive.  What would be a decent cable that i can get here in the UK that wont cost a lot probably sub £30 or $50?

 

[twister6]

  after it has a good 12 hours overnight playing music i think they sound a little better vocals seem more present and im getting detail ive not heard before.  I dont know if its me or something has changed in the actual headphone but i like them, i was enjoying listening to them so much so i have boxed up both my HP150s & HP200s in order to sell.  Now i just have to decide which amp to get.
 
from @twister6 review ive narrowed it down to the Cayin C5 or the HA2.  I can get the C5 for £110 or the HA2 at £249.  Anyone that has tried both, is the HA2 such a significant upgrade over the C5 that would justify spending more than double?
 
Also on the cable question.  What would be a decent cable.  Only have a Fiio X3ii but ill be looking to upgrade this to something else but not sure what i like the look of the astell&kern but they are very expensive.  What would be a decent cable that i can get here in the UK that wont cost a lot probably sub £30 or $50?

 
Both C5 and HA-2 are great, but significant price difference is really justified by additional functionality.  C5 functionality is limited as analog amplifier, and if you want to match USB DAC and USB OTG and compatibility with PC/MAC, you have to step up to C5DAC version which cost more.  I don't have C5DAC, but read from some reviews its DAC performance is not necessary top notch.  I don't judge a product by other reviews, but it's something to keep in mind if you are comparing apples to apples of C5DAC to HA-2.  So basically, HA-2 will have more versatility in comparison to C5.  If you want to use PM-3 with your DAP LO (output of internal DAC, bypassing internal amp) - either of them will work fine as amplifier, but if you want to use it with your laptop - C5 will amplify HO output (double amplification of already crappy source), while HA-2 digital connection to laptop means D/A processing and amplification will be external to your laptop and performed inside of HA-2.
 
But as you know, in general "what is better" is very subjective because every amp going to color sound in some way and going to affect the synergy with your headphones, and can result in amp sounding better with one pair of headphones, but not as good with another pair of full size or IEMs, and vise versa.  That is a reason when people take an amplifier route, they end up getting different types for different sound signatures

 

[michaelgordon]

thanks
 
Been looking at other player and cayin look to be releasing a new dap soon the N5 will probably get this and the C5 as i wont use the dac function.  The fiio has this and i havent used it yet as have a nice home setup already.

 

[twister6]

 

Exactly!!!  Different types of drivers will respond differently to extra juice, but like you just discovered - PM-3 planar magnetic drivers bloom with extra power.  As I mentioned in my review, you can drive it "loud" to hear the sound even from a smartphone, but it will sound blah.  You can even hear a difference with HA-2 (by far my favorite pair up) when you switch from Lo to High gain while adjusting volume to the same loudness level.  The performance of the driver (from detail retrieval to dynamics and even soundstage) will improve with extra power.  C5 pair up is fantastic, especially when it comes to soundstage expansion, the strongest value added of that portable amp.

I don't think power output has anything to do with sound unless the amp is severely lacking in power to drive the headphones to sufficient levels. Rather, the design of the amplifier and what the signal goes through is what makes things sound different. I don't think anyone will say the FiiO E12 (880 mW, 5.3 Vrms, 165.8 mA max at 32 Ω) sounds better than the Objective 2 (613 mW, 4.49 Vrms, 136.2 max at 33 Ω). I certainly prefer the O2 to the E12 with the PM-3, and I still much prefer the HA-2 (220 mW, 2.65 Vrms, 82.9 mA at 32 Ω) or even JDS Labs C5 (31.8 mW, 1.01 Vrms, 31.5 mA max at 32 Ω) over the E12.

Most people would agree that a smartphone's headphone output isn't very optimised.

...

 
And that was exactly my point, not necessary saying that amp "A" with more power will sound better than amp "B" with less power

.  I'm just sharing my observation while testing hundreds of these audio products manufacturers entrust me to review from an "audio enthusiast" perspective (not audiophile perspective). 
 
Oppo markets PM-3 as a portable efficient device with low impedance and reasonable sensitivity which suggests you can drive it even from a smartphone.  And you can drive it from smartphone to sound loud enough, but the quality of the sound is not going to be on the same level as when driven with a help of an external amp.  With amplifier, I felt like it wasn't just pushing loudness level but driving it into some saturation region where these planar magnetic drivers started to shine.  Regarding different amplifiers with their power rating and internal architecture utilizing different opamps, buffers, types of caps, filtering, layout and signal routing, etc. - that cooking formula will result in a different synergy with different headphones, a science on its own you audiophile guys like to analyze in more details, which btw I personally really appreciate since I'm a total noob when it comes to amplifers, and have more experience with IEMs and DAPs.

 

[twister6]

  thanks
 
Been looking at other player and cayin look to be releasing a new dap soon the N5 will probably get this and the C5 as i wont use the dac function.  The fiio has this and i havent used it yet as have a nice home setup already.

 
N5 going to be a killer

  Should have a review unit sometime next month, will definitely use PM-3 in my testing.