[MattTCG]

  Who cares how much R&D they made? If it doesn't sound as good as HD650/600s, then it's not worth it. I'm not saying it doesn't as I haven't heard it yet, just saying that bad R&D results in expensive yet disappointing products, such as Ultrasone Edition 10. Beats have a lot of money, Apple bought them, but hey they are still terrible.

 
Some would disagree...
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/time-rethink-beats-solo2-excellent

 

[HiFiAudio]

  Who cares how much R&D they made? If it doesn't sound as good as HD650/600s, then it's not worth it. I'm not saying it doesn't as I haven't heard it yet, just saying that bad R&D results in expensive yet disappointing products, such as Ultrasone Edition 10. Beats have a lot of money, Apple bought them, but hey they are still terrible.

 
That R&D comment is a bit off along with this nonsense about measuring up to the HD600/650's.

 

[MattTCG]

   
That R&D comment is a bit off along with this nonsense about measuring up to the HD600/650's.

 
I'm sorry but exactly when are comparisons to headphones that many of us own or are at least familiar with off topic or irrelevant? I would beg to differ with you on that one. People come here to read these threads and make decisions about spending their hard earned money. Surely using a comparison to something like the hd6x00 is useful information. 

 

[PerfectHiFi]

You may find my HD600 measurements interesting, which I'll throw up in my PM-2 review for comparison.

Where can I find your measurements published? I would appreciate to learn how you compare. Thanks in advance!

 

[HiFiAudio]

  I'm sorry but exactly when are comparisons to headphones that many of us own or are at least familiar with off topic or irrelevant? I would beg to differ with you on that one. People come here to read these threads and make decisions about spending their hard earned money. Surely using a comparison to something like the hd6x00 is useful information. 

It was the way it was said; "Who cares how much R&D they made? If it doesn't sound as good as HD650/600s, then it's not worth it."
 
Thats implying that they should sound similar or close, why?

 

[Smarty-pants]

Perhaps you misunderstood the meaning behind what I was saying, and that may be my fault. It's no secret the PM-1 and 2 are largely the same headphone, substituting leather with pleather and metal with plastic, generally. The difference largely or entirely comes down to the pads, and it is quite the difference while still sharing many of the same traits. What I was comparing was the sound of the PM-1 and PM-2 straight from the box, as they're otherwise basically the same package at face value. In that regard, I thought the stock PM-2 offered an audible improvement over the stock PM-1. Granted, you should be able to get the same or very similar sound on either by matching pads. It was not my intention to confuse, but to compare sound only as they came originally. In that regard, I consider the PM-2 above the PM-1. If made to sound the same by swapping pads, there enters the question of whether or not the nicer materials and pretty box are worth that in the end. That's a more abstract and difficult debate to tackle. I would pay $500 for the sound I get stock from the PM-2, assuming I stretched them out a bit for my fat head, and $300 for the sound I got stock from the PM-1. If the PM-2 had the PM-1's pads and they sounded the same, I'd pay, you guessed it, $300. And this is perhaps generous due to their looks and portability, plus I'm a sucker for a laid-back sound. Given the choice to have them sound identical, which they should be close with the same pads, I'll go with the cheaper option (PM-2 is still a luxurious looking and feeling headphone, and the weight might be lower...more comfortable).

As for some sort of proof or objective validation for my claims, I hope you will enjoy my review and analysis when I post it here in the coming week or two. Perhaps I should not have spoken until then, as to not unnecessarily rile people up. I have been building up a lot of interesting information that I hope folks will be receptive to here. I'll even have some good stuff for people that like to mod and tinker like myself. I think it will help you better understand my point of view. What will you have to offer to the discussion in tandem with or after that? Until then, I would enjoy hearing more about your detailed experiences with the two Oppo headphones, pad differences, and how that compares to other gear you like or dislike. I just ask that next time you hold off before prematurely throwing your face in your palm and offering nothing else, as that gives off a certain first impression that might not bode well for people who are actually interested in engaging in meaningful conversation.

I also welcome thorough, well thought out critiques and reviews, preferably from trusted experts, that may challenge what I think, if you have any specific examples to offer. And where as I never claimed most people did or should agree with me (though, I certainly haven't gathered that "about every review out there" disagrees with me, unless one narrows their scope of view), I'm certainly open to others' thoughts so that I can better understand where my preferences lie in relation to the rest of the public. I find it all genuinely interesting.

Now, I don't mean to get too off topic and generally loathe discussing pricing and product value on this site, by your logic, would you say that every headphone that sells well is priced appropriately relative to others in the market? Have you never considered a product to be overpriced for what you get despite it being popular with consumers? What about other market, industry, and community influences that shape how we view various products? BTW, is it still cool to hate on Beats or Bose as being "crap" and "overpriced" on these forums despite them being unimaginably popular with the general public? I hope I'm not too far off the mark when I say you've probably considered certain products, not necessarily headphones, to be overpriced despite them selling well, and perhaps you could never understand the market and industry's pricing models. If so, I am not sure what the hostility is over my opinion on pricing and value. We can disagree for our own reasons, and there is no shame in that. For what it's worth, at least one person I trust when it comes to impressions and measurements thought the PM-2 sounded good and was priced well despite really disliking the PM-1. No biggie.

I'm sorry I forgot to stamp my post with IMO all over it. Never said I was a definitive spokesman for all things audio. You are welcome to disagree with me, though I'd prefer an actual, meaningful discussion over impulsive facepalming.

If you are comparing the sound of the pads, then compare the sound of the pads, but that doesn't make the better made headphones less worthy than it's brother. The PM-1 are not defined by one set of pads, because it comes with 3 sets, and that is part of the whole point of why they cost what they cost.

You seem to be trying to create a scenario where you can criticize the Oppo models to be worth less than your favorite headphones but without using all of the features, accessories, sound, pads, etc... to do your comparison. You can make any product seem inferior when you manipulate the information in any certain way.

My initial "facepalm* response may not fulfill your need for an intellectual back and forth debate, but that is because your original assessment isn't worthy of discussing intellectually.
It was a highly opinionated conclusion that to most people is just obvious that it has ulterior motives away from just criticizing sound quality.
Beyond that I feel the rest of your post is just manipulative and not worth taking the time to respond to.
When the beginning of your assessment is so obviously flawed, the rest of it is simply moot.

 

[jh7000]

I no longer have the HD-600 to compare directly, but I know for sure Oppo wins in the following categories
1. Portability (I can play the oppo's right off my LG G2, and they sound good...)
2. Comfort  (I remember the HD-600 having too much clamping force)
3. Build Quality --- no contest really
4. Bass (both quality and slam)
5. Tune-ability (3 sets of earpads to adjust the sound to your liking)--- this may only apply to the PM-1 at this point..but I am sure the pads will be for sale to the PM-2 owners shortly...
 
 
I remember selling the HD-600s because of:
1. comfort
2. Lack of bass response

 

[hans030390]

  Seems your going way overboard on subjective pricing opinion and other things by making all those comments.   Here someone want to read about how the PM-2 performs not so much as a "implied biased critic" using your own odd economic views concerning the headphone value you reference from your beloved HD600's.  If you made verbose comparisons to listening and measurements that be one thing, but really its like you can't even conduct a simple review or feedback that is well organized and is a POA to judge.   I'm sure you can do this, but you need to not over talk or explain yourself here.

 
Don't worry, I'll have plenty of details to share in the near future that have nothing to do with pricing. Review isn't posted yet! As I said, I truly hate discussing pricing due to how it sends folks into a downward spiral, but I will fully explain my thoughts in time. I'll focus my upcoming review on the PM-2, of course, but with some comparisons to help better frame where it sits relative to other headphones. I made it clear I was not yet ready to post my full review here, but wanted to share some initial thoughts. Is that a problem for you? I think it would be best to wait and see what I have to say then before making such accusations, no?
 
Also, I haven't had the HD600s and until recently couldn't deal with their clamping force (had to stretch 'em out). I'm not sure a month or two is enough to call them "beloved," but I am certainly more than impressed with them. You are making too many assumptions about my thoughts.
 

 
Some would disagree...
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/time-rethink-beats-solo2-excellent

 
Hehe, I will say, I heard the new Studio wireless, and they were really not too bad. A surprisingly balanced sound. Don't worry, everyone...I'd still take the PM-2 over them. You may sleep peacefully tonight knowing that your Oppo is safe from Beats.
 
Quote:

If you are comparing the sound of the pads, then compare the sound of the pads, but that doesn't make the better made headphones less worthy than it's brother. The PM-1 are not defined by one set of pads, because it comes with 3 sets, and that is part of the whole point of why they cost what they cost.

You seem to be trying to create a scenario where you can criticize the Oppo models to be worth less than your favorite headphones but without using all of the features, accessories, sound, pads, etc... to do your comparison. You can make any product seem inferior when you manipulate the information in any certain way.

My initial "facepalm* response may not fulfill your need for an intellectual back and forth debate, but that is because your original assessment isn't worthy of discussing intellectually.
It was a highly opinionated conclusion that to most people is just obvious that it has ulterior motives away from just criticizing sound quality.
Beyond that I feel the rest of your post is just manipulative and not worth taking the time to respond to.
When the beginning of your assessment is so obviously flawed, the rest of it is simply moot.

 
Oh, I thought the point for their high cost was the pretty box, which does wonders for sound quality and other features of headphones (oh, wait, no, though I admit I almost bought a PM-1 on the box alone), and slightly heavier materials that make it less comfortable on your head over time. Would it make you feel better if I said some of the Oppo pads don't sound great and a couple (PM-2 and alt. PM-1 pads) sound pretty good? Still doesn't change how much I'd pay for that sound alone, given they more or less have the same features otherwise.
 
I'm not sure if you're reading closely or not, but I've mentioned that the Oppos have some distinct qualities that differentiate them from other headphones besides just sound quality, namely looks, build quality, portability, and so on. In particular, I can't plug my HD600 into my phone and get great sound quality, and the Oppos are more forgiving here. I even directly stated that's why I'd be willing to pay a bit more for them outside of just sound quality alone. I think you are trying to create a battle based on things I haven't said, just because I might not view the Oppos quite as highly as you do. Plus, as a I keep stating, I have yet to post my full review with comparisons. Patience.
 
If my post wasn't worth discussing intellectually, which I'm not sure what your basis is for thinking that other than me not agreeing with you or blindly applauding every headphone that I get to test, what have you had to offer that is worth discussing? You seem more eager to disagree with someone that might not share your opinion than have an actual discussion, which is telling. What do you think my supposedly obvious ulterior motives are, and why do you assume I have ulterior motives to begin with? Please be clear and provide evidence if you are going to make insulting accusations like that. Are you that threatened with the fact I might not view the Oppos as highly as you and, as you seem to claim it, everyone else in the world? I'm just out to share my thoughts and maybe help people looking to buy headphones, or, rather, will be doing so fully in the near future. If someone finds they generally don't agree with my thoughts, I encourage them to NOT follow my ideas! (Just know that I cry so hard if you don't!)
 
Again, I hope you will enjoy my full review in the coming weeks. I eagerly wait to see how you will respond to it and hope you will not continue to dismiss me simply for disagreeing with you. I am hoping what I have to offer will have everything "click" so that you understand exactly where I'm coming from, which I haven't given you enough to go off or yet one way or the other. Just giving you guys a bit of a teaser on my thoughts. Here's another hint: I actually like how the Oppos sound quite a bit. Fits my tastes well. And they have nice features. But I think they're a bit overpriced and inferior to some other, cheaper headphones, if you look at them from just a sound perspective (arguably the most important aspect of a headphone, otherwise we live in very different worlds). I know, I know, potential disagreement is a strong cause for alarm. I must be out to get someone, eh?
 

 
I remember selling the HD-600s because of:
1. comfort
2. Lack of bass response

 
Comfort was a big issue for me on the HD600 as well until I Hulked up and bent the metal part of the headband. Light as a feather on my head and around my ears now! I almost sold them until I did that. And I do have the PM-2 and HD600 on hand, and the HD600 has a subjectively more impactful bass response than the Oppo, though it's important one gets proper amping on both. (This isn't necessarily saying anything about their bass quality...will touch on that later.)
 

   
I'm sorry but exactly when are comparisons to headphones that many of us own or are at least familiar with off topic or irrelevant? I would beg to differ with you on that one. People come here to read these threads and make decisions about spending their hard earned money. Surely using a comparison to something like the hd6x00 is useful information. 

 
Thank you, Matt. I always appreciate your calm demeanor and open mindedness. That is exactly my intention, to provide useful information to help potential buyers pick the best headphone for their tastes and listening needs, and it won't always be any particular headphone. If only some would wait before getting out of their seats! I should have just waited until my full review, haha. Long story short, I want folks to know there will be some cases where I strongly recommend the Oppos over the Senns. All of my thoughts will be revealed in time.

 

[tinyman392]

I've been in and out of this thread quite a bit...  I do have to say that after reading through everything, I do agree with your assessment of the PM-2 @hans030390, though I personally feel the PM-1 is a little better...  Mainly due to the edgy treble and bass extension (for some odd reason, the PM-1 sounded like it had better bass extension, maybe it was due to fresher pads on the PM-2, IDK).  Personally can't wait to see more of an unbiased view on the Oppo headphones.  

 

[purrin]

I can definitely see folks preferring the HD600 to the PM-2. I've had discussions with some real people, and some of them do prefer the HD600. It also could be an ortho vs. dynamic headphone thing.
 
The PM-2 can be soft sounding (in bass dynamics, attack, etc.) depending upon amp. I had no such issues with PM-2 with Mjolnir or 4-45. Both amps have a ton of slam and don't blunt the attacks. The areas where PM-2 excels is bass quality (again, provided appropriate amp) and a treble - clean and well delineated. The HD600 mids quality is better and arguably has smoother treble. The PM-2 mids, regardless of pads, still have a slight veil to them. The PM-2 has a slight bump at 8-9k which wasn't an issue for me all at, but I think it was one for Hans. The HD600's upper mid bump at 3-4k is less desirable, at least for my tastes. Now that I think of it, I sort of get the "limp-dick" thing Hans attributed to the PM-1/2. The headphone tends towards being laid back, pleasant, soothing, forgiving. I totally understand if this isn't one's cup of tea.
 
Considering that the HD600 costs $360, I think Hans is being generous saying he feels the PM-2 should be priced at $500. No? Personally, I think everything is costing too much these days thanks to HF'ers talking up what they currently have/own/love as the bees-knees. But anyways, compared to HE-560, LCD-2 (which are better and worse in different ways), I think the PM-2 price is fair under the existing headphone universe.

 

[zerodeefex]

   

 
I'm curious, were you part of the Oppo beta and got a loaner or a keeper like a lot of folks have? You seem super knowledgeable about the oppo cans and have had them for a while!
 
I'm always curious about these manufacturer relationships. If you were in the beta, how did you get in? 

 

[hans030390]

  I've been in and out of this thread quite a bit...  I do have to say that after reading through everything, I do agree with your assessment of the PM-2 @hans030390, though I personally feel the PM-1 is a little better...  Mainly due to the edgy treble and bass extension (for some odd reason, the PM-1 sounded like it had better bass extension, maybe it was due to fresher pads on the PM-2, IDK).  Personally can't wait to see more of an unbiased view on the Oppo headphones.  

 
Hold on to your thoughts, as I think you will find my review interesting and perhaps enlightening in terms of what you hear. (And I do agree, the PM-1 has some better attributes...or, rather, the pads, assuming that's the only real difference...over the PM-2, but I overall found the PM-2 to have a better balanced response.)
 
Also, I will agree with purrin that the PM-2 gets pretty ballsy with a good amp. I like. HD600 can also be pretty ballsy, though, even on amps that make the PM-2 sound just a tad bit weaker otherwise. I think my initial issue with the PM-2's treble was exacerbated by the tight clamp. Smoother treble after I stretched them out and lessened clamp with my manly Hulk arms. And, yes, HD600 was hot at 2-4KHz for me, which I addressed with a couple simple mods. I try to keep in mind that most don't have problems here when commenting on the HD600. Anyway, that's why I tweaked both to better suit my tastes. I'll address those points and maybe more in my review. Lots of interesting things to cover, some for the DIYers and tinkerers like myself, all centered around the PM-2.
 
I'm going to refrain from posting much further or, at least, specifically addressing other posters in this thread until I have my review pieces collected and ready to publish. I just ask that everyone else sit tight and not get too worried about what I think until that point. Fair?

 

[JML]

I finally figured out why Head-fi has a blocking function...

 

[HarleyZH]

Got a shipping notification for my PM-2 coming from Florida through MyUS.  I should be able to give some impressions when I get them - compared to the HE500, LCD2R2, ZMF x Vibro and Alpha Dog in particular.

 

[PerfectHiFi]

I finally figured out why Head-fi has a blocking function... 

...and so did I !

However, one more PM-x order for Oppo, soon to come