[vkalia]

Anyone know which dealers would be carrying it?  I am buying one as soon as it becomes available.

 

[Headphoner]

I left that to my sound mixer friend. He tunes speaker systems in live venues for a living and knows how to deal with the sensitivity in the upper mids. I did sweeps in bits alongside him- an octave and a half wide at a time looking for bumps and dips. He did the final pass over the whole range at the very end.

~~I think I follow now. You spent most of your ear time looking for localized bumps and dips in the response, looking at limited frequency ranges one at a time. And then you and your friend evaluated the overall complete frequency range by ear, comparing it to, among other things, your considerable experience with live music.
 
Edit:  I forgot to add that, your methodology, as I understand it now (above), will not have problems from the Fletcher-Munson phenomenon.
 
I really appreciate all the time you spent evaluating the phones and all the time you spent writing about them.

 

[bigshot]

There are hundreds and hundreds of ways to combine various models of computers, players, amps, and DACs to get really really great sound. It is relatively easy for electronics to exceed our ability to hear and reach audible transparency. You can spend a small amount of money and reach transparency with cleverly chosen inexpensive gear... or you can spend a little more and reach 2 or 3 times audible transparency with Mac players... or you can spend a whole lot more and get 10 times transparency with separate high end amps and DACs. That's all fine. But if you're evaluating them with human ears listening to music in real world conditions, they'll all sound the same... transparent.

But the same can't be said for transducers. Headphones and speakers (and the rooms they inhabit) are the big wild card in any sound system- they are all over the map. People are used to making the electronics jump through hoops to correct for the peccadillos of the transducers. Achieving clean, balanced sound out of tranducers is a trick. Getting clean, balanced sound straight out of the box without having to buy a lot of outboard equipment is even rarer. That's exactly why the PM-1s are so remarkable. Open the nice wooden box, plug them into an iPod and you get phenominal sound. No need for anything else.

Cram five or six more tap dancing angels onto the head of that pin... but when the rubber hits the road it really doesn't matter. Don't mess with something that is perfect as we can ever expect to get in this imperfect world.

 

[HiFiAudio]

There are hundreds and hundreds of ways to combine various models of computers, players, amps, and DACs to get really really great sound. It is relatively easy for electronics to exceed our ability to hear and reach audible transparency. You can spend a small amount of money and reach transparency with cleverly chosen inexpensive gear... or you can spend a little more and reach 2 or 3 times audible transparency with Mac players... or you can spend a whole lot more and get 10 times transparency with separate high end amps and DACs. That's all fine. But if you're evaluating them with human ears listening to music in real world conditions, they'll all sound the same... transparent.

But the same can't be said for transducers. Headphones and speakers (and the rooms they inhabit) are the big wild card in any sound system- they are all over the map. People are used to making the electronics jump through hoops to correct for the peccadillos of the transducers. Achieving clean, balanced sound out of tranducers is a trick. Getting clean, balanced sound straight out of the box without having to buy a lot of outboard equipment is even rarer. That's exactly why the PM-1s are so remarkable. Open the nice wooden box, plug them into an iPod and you get phenominal sound. No need for anything else.

Cram five or six more tap dancing angels onto the head of that pin... but when the rubber hits the road it really doesn't matter. Don't mess with something that is perfect as we can ever expect to get in this imperfect world.

Saying that you don't need anything better then a iPod and PM-1's.    Maybe I'm missing something here... 

 

[Beagle]

Amping isn't just about volume. It is also about signal quality. The best amps are more transparent, have a lower noise floor, greater dynamic range, etc. Same is true of better DACs. If the Oppo sounds the same with an iPod or iMac as it does with high-end amps and DACs, that would indicate the Oppo lacks transparency (which is different from neutrality). Did any beta folks use the Oppo with highly regarded components? Any comparisons made switching among better components? Did the Oppo sound different when driven by Oppo's own amp/dac? (Oppo surely expects it to, right?)

 
 

  Saying that you don't need anything better then a iPod and PM-1's.    Maybe I'm missing something here... 

 
Rather worrisome, isn't it? As a rule, orthos need power and lots of it.

 

[bigshot]

[COLOR=282828]Saying that you don't need anything better then a iPod and PM-1's.    Maybe I'm missing something here... [/COLOR]

Think of it with a budget in mind... you have $1500 to spend... you can get lesser headphones along with an amp/DAC and a DAP or soundcard for your computer... or you can just get an iPod and the PM-1s...

If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on the iPod/PM-1 combo sounding better than doing it the hard way because really good headphones make all the difference and iPods are audibly transparent to human ears. The other way would probably be klunkier, more prone to problems and it wouldn't sound as good dollar for dollar.

If you already have a good headphone amp, go ahead and plug the PM-1s into it. It couldn't hurt I suppose. But you sure don't need to go out and buy one special to get the most out of the Oppos.

 

[bigshot]

Rather worrisome, isn't it? As a rule, orthos need power and lots of it.

The difference is that the Oppos have conductors in a spiral pattern on *both* sides of the diaphragm, not just one side. Double the conductors means MUCH higher sensitivity. It's a different sort of design than other orthos.

 

[jerg]

The difference is that the Oppos have conductors in a spiral pattern on *both* sides of the diaphragm, not just one side. Double the conductors means MUCH higher sensitivity. It's a different sort of design than other orthos.

Hifiman HE5, HE5LE, HE6, HE500, HE400, Audeze LCD2, LCD3, LCDX, LCDXC are also like that (dual-ended magnets with conductive tracings on both sides of the diaphragm membrane), the more you know. Their tracing patterns are all serpentine instead of concentric circle / spiral though.
 
I think what that might contribute to the higher sensitivity of PM1 (relative to other dual-ended planar magnetics I mentioned above) could be lower membrane tension, lighter membrane, more efficient tracing material, stronger magnets, more efficient tracing pattern (spiral instead of serpentine), smaller distance between membrane and magnets, or a combination of those.

 

[bigshot]

I tested them with a high end amp/DAC. I couldn't detect any audible difference once the levels were matched. I only spent a couple of hours on it though. There might have been a very tiny difference, but not enough to matter.

 

[bigshot]

I think what that might contribute to the higher sensitivity of PM1 (relative to other dual-ended planar magnetics I mentioned above) could be lower membrane tension, lighter membrane, more efficient tracing material, stronger magnets, more efficient tracing pattern (spiral instead of serpentine), smaller distance between membrane and magnets, or a combination of those.

You know a lot more about the design options than I do! I've never played with planars before. You're probably correct.

 

[Rob49]

STUPID QUESTION !!......but isn't the idea to pair these headphones with the Oppo HA-1 (  for best results...) ?

 

[swspiers]

  STUPID QUESTION !!......but isn't the idea to pair these headphones with the Oppo HA-1 (  for best results...) ?

Probably not, at least from Oppo's perspective.  They do not have a history of doing design in that manner.  If anything, the HA-1 is intended for the Audeze/Hifiman folk who need the juice. Oppo is a very objective company when it comes to design and specifications, although the BDP-105 is an over-designed monster with specs that far exceed what is needed for great sound.
 
In my experience, that is...

 

[HiFiAudio]

Think of it with a budget in mind... you have $1500 to spend... you can get lesser headphones along with an amp/DAC and a DAP or soundcard for your computer... or you can just get an iPod and the PM-1s...

If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on the iPod/PM-1 combo sounding better than doing it the hard way because really good headphones make all the difference and iPods are audibly transparent to human ears. The other way would probably be klunkier, more prone to problems and it wouldn't sound as good dollar for dollar.

If you already have a good headphone amp, go ahead and plug the PM-1s into it. It couldn't hurt I suppose. But you sure don't need to go out and buy one special to get the most out of the Oppos.

I do understand where you are coming from, just interesting to finally understand your perspective from the other side.

 
BTW no problems weight wise for extended periods?

 

[bigshot]

The reason that the beta test period took so long was that Oppo was taken our comments about comfort VERY seriously. They made several modifications to the clamping pressure, pads and balance throughout the testing period. At every step, it got more and more comfortable. The final shipping version is EXTREMELY comfortable, and the weight of these cans isn't at all excessive. I could easily forget I'm wearing them. If headphones are your main way of listening to music, that is very important. No compromises there.

 

[StanD]

 
Which amp and DAC was that? You're saying because you tried one amp/DAC combo and didn't find a difference, that no amp/DAC combos make a difference in the sound of the PM-1? Based on my experience, this makes no sense. Time to take a vacation from this thread.

Does the PM-1 have issues with FR, transients or distortion? If so, no Amp or DAC will fix that. If there are issues with FR, you might address that with an EQ, but in that case perhaps another set of cans would be in order, in fact that might be the best course if they exhibit sonic defects that bother the listener. Are they sibilant? If so the same goes for DACs and Amps. DACs and Amps are not supposed to color sound, other than a tube amp adding a small amount of even order harmonic distortion, but that's a matter of taste. IMO, other than myth, pairing is overrated. From what I've read, so far the PM-1's are worth consideration and in time we'll better know how this pans out. If I were more interested in DACs and Amps, I'd consider a visit to the forums that cater to such devices.
I have a concern based upon the pictures of the openings on the earcups facing the ears, which IMO are a bit on the small side of what I'd expect from Planars.  I'll wait to see how others post on the extended sub bass.