[Smarty-pants]

You are misreading my post. I wasn't saying they scale well BECAUSE they are efficient.

My point was that they need less scaling because of their efficiency. ...and I did say they scale well.

The need for a powerful headphone amp is only necessary for squeezing the last few percentage points of high quality sound out of them.

You're welcome to disagree, just my opinion.

OK.
Got it, I think.
But do you also infer that the PM-1 will scale at proportionately smaller increments than a less efficient set of headphones along a gradient of rising amp power/quality?  It sounds like you are saying that there is less room for improvement with the PM-1 versus a less efficient planar.

Yes, I kind of am saying that, based only on my personal experience, which is limited since I have only heard the PM-1 with a couple of amps.
Perhaps they scale even better with an uber high end amp that I have not had the opportunity to use, but at the same time I can't imagine it would be worth the price
to spend a couple thousand dollars more over top of something like an Oppo HA-1 to squeeze out 1% more SQ.
For some people, they will spend any amount for any improvement, but I try to be more practical with my money.
Keep in mind I am not saying that they scale less as a negative, but as a positive.
In other words, they sound so good to begin with, that there's not much room for improvement.

 

[HiFiAudio]

Note:  Oppo obviously got more in today, and the PM-1 is back in stock.

 

[swspiers]

but at the same time I can't imagine it would be worth the price
to spend a couple thousand dollars more over top of something like an Oppo HA-1 to squeeze out 1% more SQ.

Indeed.

But that 1% can be really sweet...

 

[jerg]

Indeed.

But that 1% can be really sweet...

It could mean pushing from 98% to 99%, which is doubling the closeness to 100%.

 

[pataburd]

Thanks for the clarification Patrick.
Off topic but are you by any chance considering the HE-560?
Would be nice to read up your comparison of the two.

Don't know.
Is the 560 aimed inbetween the 500 and the 6?
Has anyone compared the 560 and the 6?  
[I should look for myself.]
Anyway, I am enjoying the PM-1 enough right now not to be in a hurry for such a comparison.
Between the PM-1 and the Mikros 90 I should be set for a while.

 

 

[pataburd]

Going cold turkey this weekend.  No PM-1.  Just a stock pair of the Mikros 90 [great little overachieving portable IMHO.]
Wanted to mention, though, that they have served up R&R, C&W, R&B, Folk, Jazz, International/World Beat, Classical and Pop all to my liking.

 

[keanex]

Yes, I kind of am saying that, based only on my personal experience, which is limited since I have only heard the PM-1 with a couple of amps.
Perhaps they scale even better with an uber high end amp that I have not had the opportunity to use, but at the same time I can't imagine it would be worth the price
to spend a couple thousand dollars more over top of something like an Oppo HA-1 to squeeze out 1% more SQ.
For some people, they will spend any amount for any improvement, but I try to be more practical with my money.
Keep in mind I am not saying that they scale less as a negative, but as a positive.
In other words, they sound so good to begin with, that there's not much room for improvement.

 
Don't even think about spending $1,000+ on a high-end amp if you think you're going to get any sort of positive results outside of placebo/minor sound changes.. Look, I love my HA-1 and if I wasn't given one, graciously by Oppo, I would have it at the top of my list to purchase eventually due to how excellent of a product it is and how excellent of a company Oppo is to work with. But to say that it's going to be a practical upgrade in sound quality if you have a decent SS amp is insane if you value your money. 
 
The HA-1 offers an excellent product and the flexibility, clarity and power of it makes it worth the $1,000 upgrade over other great cheap SS amps, but I'd wager that most who claim increased sound quality over, say, a Magni, would be hard pressed to find $1,000 worth of sound quality performance if they were in a double blind test.
 
I love the HA-1, but don't think about amps as a worthwhile price/SQ upgrade. They aren't.

 

[Thad-E-Ginathom]

...

...

...

Keep in mind I am not saying that they scale less as a negative, but as a positive.
In other words, they sound so good to begin with, that there's not much room for improvement.

 
That makes sense. It's curious that people don't see the lack of needing to spend much more money as an advantage!

 

[Ron12]

   
That makes sense. It's curious that people don't see the lack of needing to spend much more money as an advantage!

 
Well, hardcore audiophiles love chasing unicorns more than anything else I guess...

 

[Thad-E-Ginathom]

Oh yes, I'd forgotten the unicorns.

 

[pataburd]

 
I love the HA-1, but don't think about amps as a worthwhile price/SQ upgrade. They aren't.

  Some would say that they are.
  And there are the "most-bang-for-the-buckers" [like me, I guess].
  It's a matter of how much you are willing to spend to derive the best that the gear has to offer.
  That said, the PM-1 sing MUCH MORE sweetly with the Lehmann BCL than with the headphone out from the Linn Intek.
  Ignorance is not always bliss.
  

 

 

[JeffA]

The HA-1 offers an excellent product and the flexibility, clarity and power of it makes it worth the $1,000 upgrade over other great cheap SS amps, but I'd wager that most who claim increased sound quality over, say, a Magni, would be hard pressed to find $1,000 worth of sound quality performance if they were in a double blind test.
 
I love the HA-1, but don't think about amps as a worthwhile price/SQ upgrade. They aren't.

Value is relative. Having had the good fortune to be able to audition several DACs and amps in the >$1K price category, I can say with certainty that they provide sound quality upgrades that are easily recognizable in blind listening tests. My wife, who is always seeking to check my audio spending, also easily hears the differences. The improvements in clarity, the width and depth of the soundstage, and frequency extension are worthwhile. To me. So for those who are inclined to try more expensive gear (and I realize that expensive does not always mean better, but the better gear is more expensive), you will be rewarded. For those that think more expensive gear is not a good value proposition, I respect your judgment.
 
With respect to the PM-1, some views were expressed earlier in the thread that the PM-1 lacked the transparency and suffered from distortion problems that rendered it incapable of taking advantage of better amps and DACs. In essence, they claimed the PM-1 choked off the flow of better audio information coming to it. While I know from my own experience that the PM-1 is not the equal of the HD-800 in terms of transparency and lack of distortion, the PM-1 is still good enough to take advantage of better DACs and amps. It does scale up, but perhaps its ceiling is a bit lower than the HD-800 and some other "reference" headphones. But that is fine with me, because I don't think of the PM-1 as a reference phone. I consider it an excellent phone for particular applications. For me, it is a perfect phone in a second system, where comfort, ease of use, build quality, transportability, and great sound quality are considerations. When I want to do the pure audiophile thing, I use the HD-800 (fed by a very good DAC and amp).

 

[keanex]

  Value is relative. Having had the good fortune to be able to audition several DACs and amps in the >$1K price category, I can say with certainty that they provide sound quality upgrades that are easily recognizable in blind listening tests. My wife, who is always seeking to check my audio spending, also easily hears the differences. The improvements in clarity, the width and depth of the soundstage, and frequency extension are worthwhile. To me. So for those who are inclined to try more expensive gear (and I realize that expensive does not always mean better, but the better gear is more expensive), you will be rewarded. For those that think more expensive gear is not a good value proposition, I respect your judgment.

 
You know what, this isn't the appropriate thread for this. I thought we were in the HA-1 thread but we aren't.

 

[ogodei]

Listened to the Oppo PM-2 today at ChiUniFi.  The Oppo rep confirmed that it is being tweaked to bring out the high end more than the PM-1.  I personally heard little difference but it was in a meet room and not my music.  Jude listened a lot longer than I did, indicated he heard the difference and that he may prefer the PM-2 sound.  I don’t doubt the difference is there, I will just have to wait to get them into a quiet A-B setting to hear it.
 
Another thing with these: I couldn't tell the differences between these cans and the PM1s until the rep pointed them out.  Different material (not real leather) on the head band and ear pads; some plastic in the bezel was not as shiny as the PM1s; some materials in the cups were plastic rather than metal.  Overall, very small cosmetic differences.  If you like the PM1 look this is really the exact same thing.
 
The Oppo rep again confirmed the mid-to-late July release target for the cans. My prediction, Oppo is going to burn down the freaking house with these.

 

[JeffA]

  Listened to the Oppo PM-2 today at ChiUniFi.  The Oppo rep confirmed that it is being tweaked to bring out the high end more than the PM-1.  I personally heard little difference but it was in a meet room and not my music.  Jude listened a lot longer than I did, indicated he heard the difference and that he may prefer the PM-2 sound.  I don’t doubt the difference is there, I will just have to wait to get them into a quiet A-B setting to hear it.
 
Another thing with these: I couldn't tell the differences between these cans and the PM1s until the rep pointed them out.  Different material (not real leather) on the head band and ear pads; some plastic in the bezel was not as shiny as the PM1s; some materials in the cups were plastic rather than metal.  Overall, very small cosmetic differences.  If you like the PM1 look this is really the exact same thing.
 
The Oppo rep again confirmed the mid-to-late July release target for the cans. My prediction, Oppo is going to burn down the freaking house with these.

For some, like me, who already have invested in the PM-1 based on Oppo's repeated representations that the PM-2 would be voiced exactly like the PM-1 but be of a lesser build quality, it is disconcerting to think the PM-2 might sound better than the PM-1, at least to some ears.