[Sonic Defender]

   
I know I don't even in high gain. Tidal works perfectly and with a black background...
 
Now what would be interesting would be to identify the headphones that exhibit hiss and is it from single ended or balanced?
I am thinking very low impedance / high sensitivity like SE846 or IEMs known for being sensitive to hiss like Empire Zeus???
Does this occur while streaming and also in offline mode?
That could help out rule out the app itself...
 
Maybe the issue shows in certain particular conditions is what I am wondering... I had issues with FiiO X7 and it was clearly EMI when streaming.

I suspect that might be the case for at least some. I'm streaming Tidal as I write and it is perfect, as you say dead silent background.

 

[davidmolliere]

   
I considered going down the iPod Touch / External DAC-AMP route, but then saw that lots of users were having a world of pain getting the iOS - CCK - DAC interface working so I don't believe that's necessarily better than Android either.

 
Indeed CCK makes things clumsy

 

[Zenifyx]

  No, it hasn't, many people have posted here that they have no issues with third party apps or streaming. The fact that some people experience the issues I am not debating, but your language use makes it sound like a known fact that this is a universal issue and it isn't. I run my Onkyo on high gain and have never noticed these reported distortion issues. I will again ask anybody else who cares to comment whether or not they are experiencing distortion with 3rd party players or streaming services.

 
I used the words 'documented extensively' and what you are describing in your post is a 'widespread issue/fault'.
The two have nothing in common.
 
Also, do re-examine your own words.
You have, on multiple occasions stated that 'very few people' have experienced these issues, and 'many people' have posted here that they have no issues with third party apps or streaming.
I searched through the thread briefly and I can find at least 6-7 people who have the issue and documented extensively on their setup/how to replicate the issue.
On the other hand, I could find no more than 5 people who have posted here that they have no issues with streaming whatsoever (and most of those posts are one/two-liners, with no mention of their setup or any attempt to replicate the issue) - granted, I may have missed some, but I don't think the actual number falls far from that number.
Thus I find your choice of words extremely ironic.
 
I do believe that while we should not exaggerate the issue, we should not downplay the issue as well.
What is most important here - is to portray the issue/fault as accurately as possible, so that forumers could make an informed choice when deciding whether or not to pick up this DAP.

 

[McCol]

I've had a good few hours today to have a proper play around with the Onkyo and various iem's.  Also spent a little time comparing to my Mojo/smartphone setup.
 
First thing to say is that the Onkyo is a lovely looking bit of hardware, nice solid feel and appears well built.  For a DAP the screen is excellent and the CPU never seems to lag, nice and zippy operation.  Did initially have some pauses when playing tracks but this was after software updates yesterday, restarting the DAP seems to have sorted this.
 
So far I have had no problems with either Tidal or Spotify.  No background hiss or interference.  I really like the stock player, seems quite easy to use and feels intuitive.
 
When I buy new equipment like others there are certain albums and tracks that I reach for first to compare to previous gear.  Amongst those are Bowie's Ziggy Stardust, The Smiths Meat is Murder and the The Velvet Underground's Loaded album.  I like these for various reasons but find they give me a good indication of whether or not I'll stick with new gear.
 
The DP-X1 sounds great with everything I've tried so far, not really one for trying to use long winded explanations of sound but suffice to say that the X1 ticks all the boxes.  Overall for me it sounds almost neutral but maybe veers towards adding a little warmth to my music which I like.  Reminds me of an old Nad stereo amp I used to use until recent years.  My IE800 really shine with the Onkyo, almost a perfect match although to be fair all my phones I've tried so far sound excellent.  These have all been in single ended mode.  I only have one earphone that is capable of balanced and that is my Angie's.  I tried them with the standard 3.5mm and was suitably impressed but was pleasantly surprised when using the balanced 2.5mm connection.  Everything seemed to open a bit more and I felt more detail was added to the overall sound.
 
 
Compared to my Mojo?  Well so far I would have to say that the Mojo probably edges it in technical terms, more detail to the music and just overall a better overall sound quality.  The Angie in SE on the Mojo was very similar to balanced on the Onkyo.  It's difficult to say the Mojo is better because it isn't really it's just different. The Onkyo draws me in with it's warm seductive musical quality but the Mojo can blow me away with it's detail and overall soundstage.
 
I'll be keeping both, the Onkyo means that I don't need to carry my Mojo strapped to my phone when out but will be keeping the Mojo for home use and no doubt will at some point use the DP-X1 as a transport for the Mojo. 

 

[Sonic Defender]

 
I do believe that while we should not exaggerate the issue, we should not downplay the issue as well.
What is most important here - is to portray the issue/fault as accurately as possible, so that forumers could make an informed choice when deciding whether or not to pick up this DAP.

I think some of those people you mention having stated they had problems have gone silent on the issue which as I said before means they may have realized they were over-reacting, maybe even mistaken. I do recall one of the original posters who felt he had a problem saying that after listening harder he wasn't sure if it wasn't just his imagination. Anyway, who knows, but I do think all issues should be talked about, but in general I notice when people complain or are distressed they seem to really use terms that make their experience sound like what everybody will experience and to that effect saying extensively documented is very easy to interpret as meaning common, and this issue is anything but established as common.
 
Regardless, I'm not trying to minimize the issues others may have, and I do empathize with those effected, I just like you, want clarity in the thread, and I don't think saying an issue is extensively documented as existing is accurate. And there were people, including myself who followed the steps one person reported to follow to get the fault to occur and we were unable to get the distortion issue to occur. That included downloading that Flac file where the poster said the distortion was very obvious using 3rd party apps and when I used Neutron I didn't hear anything, and I recall at least one other person doing the same with another app and saying they heard nothing. I still contend that there is little actual evidence of this fault so until that is made clear extensively demonstrated does not apply. You can say some people report this issue, but not extensively, that just hasn't been established.
 
I know you weren't deliberately trying to exaggerate, or mislead, and I'm not saying you have done so. I think you are just trying to be a good head-fier and help other members so I'm not attacking you, I respect your desire to help and inform others.

 

[Zenifyx]

  I think some of those people you mention having stated they had problems have gone silent on the issue which as I said before means they may have realized they were over-reacting, maybe even mistaken. I do recall one of the original posters who felt he had a problem saying that after listening harder he wasn't sure if it wasn't just his imagination. Anyway, who knows, but I do think all issues should be talked about, but in general I notice when people complain or are distressed they seem to really use terms that make their experience sound like what everybody will experience and to that effect saying extensively documented is very easy to interpret as meaning common, and this issue is anything but established as common.
 
Regardless, I'm not trying to minimize the issues others may have, and I do empathize with those effected, I just like you, want clarity in the thread, and I don't think saying an issue is extensively documented as existing is accurate. And there were people, including myself who followed the steps one person reported to follow to get the fault to occur and we were unable to get the distortion issue to occur. That included downloading that Flac file where the poster said the distortion was very obvious using 3rd party apps and when I used Neutron I didn't hear anything, and I recall at least one other person doing the same with another app and saying they heard nothing. I still contend that there is little actual evidence of this fault so until that is made clear extensively demonstrated does not apply. You can say some people report this issue, but not extensively, that just hasn't been established.
 
I know you weren't deliberately trying to exaggerate, or mislead, and I'm not saying you have done so. I think you are just trying to be a good head-fier and help other members so I'm not attacking you, I respect your desire to help and inform others.

 
I can assure you, the words 'extensively documented' in no way implies that it is common, just that it has been mentioned and hugely elaborated on.
And most of us had gone silent on the issue as there was no reason to continue, and we had stated all that we could, and documented the various conditions to possibly reproduce it. (Would you rather they spend pages upon pages of continually restating the issue?).
 
Do also note that 6-7 people having the issue is significant statistically, even in the grand scheme of things (I estimate about between 50-100 head-fiers actually own this DAP, and less than 20 have commented on issues/nonissues pertaining to this)
Whilst some people have not picked up on distortion with various setups, this is cannot be a marker to prove that it is a non-issue, as each ears/headphones will vary in terms of capability in picking up hissing/distortion noises.
This being said, it would be hugely incorrect to deny a fault exists simply because a few others were unable to reproduce the issue!
 
You may choose to believe that it is a hardware fault and only lies in some units, but I believe that the fault lies in the firmware level and thus can be fixed in a future FW update (simply because the stock player has no issues) - and I have always stated this as a belief, rather than as a fact.
I have also tried my best not to exaggerate on the issue, avoiding terms like 'many of us' or 'only a few', which can be vague and hugely misleading, in favor of actual numbers.
That being said, I would much rather help forumers make an informed decision, rather than lead them to believe that it would be a nonissue, only for it to be a dealbreaker when they finally have the unit in their hands.

 

[Sonic Defender]

I'm not sure what to say, if it was firmware by definition everybody would have the problem, and clearly not everybody does. I still feel the exact number of those who currently feel the problem exists for them isn't clear. I don't think anybody wants anything swept under the carpet or not discussed. I have no skin in the game, it isn't like I make money or gain prestige if people buy the Onkyo. My unit works fine, more than fine so again, that essentially rules out firmware unless there is something unique about my unit, which I doubt, but I guess isn't impossible. I know I am running version 1.26 so it is up to date.
 
I would think that perhaps as I am likely older than some in this thread (47) that maybe I can't hear the hiss or distortion due to some combination of hearing acuity and my headphones (PM3). I have to acknowledge that as a possibility. I think McCol and davidmolliier are younger and have used different headphones/IEM and they are not hearing distortion with Tidal. Anyway, it should be clear that it isn't 100% for sure a firmware issue whatever it is that some are experiencing.

 

[ebe2000]

I'm not sure what to say, if it was firmware by definition everybody would have the problem, and clearly not everybody does. I still feel the exact number of those who currently feel the problem exists for them isn't clear. I don't think anybody wants anything swept under the carpet or not discussed. I have no skin in the game, it isn't like I make money or gain prestige if people buy the Onkyo. My unit works fine, more than fine so again, that essentially rules out firmware unless there is something unique about my unit, which I doubt, but I guess isn't impossible. I know I am running version 1.26 so it is up to date.

I would think that perhaps as I am likely older than some in this thread (47) that maybe I can't hear the hiss or distortion due to some combination of hearing acuity and my headphones (PM3). I have to acknowledge that as a possibility. I think McCol and davidmolliier are younger and have used different headphones/IEM and they are not hearing distortion with Tidal. Anyway, it should be clear that it isn't 100% for sure a firmware issue whatever it is that some are experiencing.

It could also be a noisy electric circuit in the house. I have installed a transformer for my stereo setup and it made a huge difference.

 

[Whitigir]

It could also be a noisy electric circuit in the house. I have installed a transformer for my stereo setup and it made a huge difference.

Nowadays, interferences should be shielded very effectively for solid state , op-amp, and DAC chip alone...unless they self generate noises, and in this case, it should be deemed as hardware defection.

 

[sq3rjick]

Just picked up my DP-X1 from the post office (got through PriceJapan / EMS).  I remembered somebody earlier in the thread asking about being able to change the launcher, and there was some doubt if it could be done.  I just got it all setup and was able to put Nova Launcher Prime on there with no issues.  All of the "nice" things on the default launcher are actually widgets, so I was able to get all of those setup how I wanted them.  You can also get rid of the persistent google search bar if you go to a different launcher.
 
To get a different launcher, install one in the play store and then press the "o" button.  You'll be asked which launcher you want to use. Choose your new launcher, and you're good.  You can set it as one-time (to test it out) or set it to default.  You can always go back and clear out the defaults if you choose that you'd like to a different launcher or want to go back to the stock launcher.

 

[McCol]

I'm not sure what to say, if it was firmware by definition everybody would have the problem, and clearly not everybody does. I still feel the exact number of those who currently feel the problem exists for them isn't clear. I don't think anybody wants anything swept under the carpet or not discussed. I have no skin in the game, it isn't like I make money or gain prestige if people buy the Onkyo. My unit works fine, more than fine so again, that essentially rules out firmware unless there is something unique about my unit, which I doubt, but I guess isn't impossible. I know I am running version 1.26 so it is up to date.

I would think that perhaps as I am likely older than some in this thread (47) that maybe I can't hear the hiss or distortion due to some combination of hearing acuity and my headphones (PM3). I have to acknowledge that as a possibility. I think McCol and davidmolliier are younger and have used different headphones/IEM and they are not hearing distortion with Tidal. Anyway, it should be clear that it isn't 100% for sure a firmware issue whatever it is that some are experiencing.

Oh you flatter me, I'm almost 45 though.

 

[Zenifyx]

  I'm not sure what to say, if it was firmware by definition everybody would have the problem, and clearly not everybody does. I still feel the exact number of those who currently feel the problem exists for them isn't clear. I don't think anybody wants anything swept under the carpet or not discussed. I have no skin in the game, it isn't like I make money or gain prestige if people buy the Onkyo. My unit works fine, more than fine so again, that essentially rules out firmware unless there is something unique about my unit, which I doubt, but I guess isn't impossible. I know I am running version 1.26 so it is up to date.
 
I would think that perhaps as I am likely older than some in this thread (47) that maybe I can't hear the hiss or distortion due to some combination of hearing acuity and my headphones (PM3). I have to acknowledge that as a possibility. I think McCol and davidmolliier are younger and have used different headphones/IEM and they are not hearing distortion with Tidal. Anyway, it should be clear that it isn't 100% for sure a firmware issue whatever it is that some are experiencing.

 
What you mean to say is that not everybody observes it - just because one does not see the needle in a haystack does not mean the needle is not there.
For those who have no problems, it could possibly be a lack of acuity or due to the gear used. For eg. headphones are less prone to picking up hissing.
There's no definitive way to prove except by comparing 2 players or taking readings out of an oscilloscope.
Also, the stock player does not demonstrate any problem (which indicates that the issue may potentially lie on the software/firmware level)
 
Anyway, regardless of whether the issue lies within the hardware or the firmware, it is evident that an issue is indeed present - in at least some units. (and ironically, a hardware fault would actually be a more severe issue).
Hopefully someone who knows Japanese will bring it up to the guys at Onkyo and get a suitable response for us all.
In the meantime, I feel debating on wherein the issue lies would be pointless.

 

[Peridot]

 
I would think that perhaps as I am likely older than some in this thread (47) that maybe I can't hear the hiss or distortion due to some combination of hearing acuity and my headphones (PM3). I have to acknowledge that as a possibility. I think McCol and davidmolliier are younger and have used different headphones/IEM and they are not hearing distortion with Tidal. Anyway, it should be clear that it isn't 100% for sure a firmware issue whatever it is that some are experiencing.

 
However the recorded sample provided by earfonia shows a very obvious effect that I imagine would be audible to the vast majority of people without a significant hearing impairment. This was using USBAPP. I don't know whether the effect with Tidal was as pronounced for those affected, perhaps @Nonnynoo can confirm?
 
It's the second sample here - https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2Mi2rrmALKFdzAxVGpscHhWc1U&usp=sharing

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
However the recorded sample provided by earfonia shows a very obvious effect that I imagine would be audible to the vast majority of people without a significant hearing impairment. This was using USBAPP. I don't know whether the effect with Tidal was as pronounced for those affected, perhaps @Nonnynoo can confirm?
 
It's the second sample here - https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2Mi2rrmALKFdzAxVGpscHhWc1U&usp=sharing

Thanks, when I get home tonight I'll see if that was the sample I used or not. The one I used did not seem to demonstrate anything I noticed. maybe I love distortion?
 
Edit:
Okay, so no I hadn't heard the second file before, but that sounds like something electrical going on, so yes distortion. So now all that tells us is that for that one person, his unit exhibited that anomaly. Is this what others are hearing, or are they reporting something else? Just read more carefully that the player was USBAPP, which I have never heard of before. I'll have to read about it.
 
That is an odd phase, modulation artifact going on, very strange for sure. So if there is an issue with THAT particular Onkyo (until others confirm that is also what happens on their DP-X1) we can more easily suggest that it is hardware specific to that unit, or others. That sound would not be missed so it can't be firmware, or even hardware common to the DP-X1 or we would all experience it. There are so many things that might account for that, but it should be with the SoC correct? The Onkyo player is supposed to use the hardware DAC where 3rd party apps must use the SoC for DA processing. If that is correct then it has to be something in that path. Am I missing something here? Anyway, that still doesn't even remotely suggest a common fault, in fact it is pretty convincing evidence otherwise unless we are to believe that the issue only affects a very specific set of frequencies, which I suppose is possible.
 
I'm trying to be objective here so if I'm missing something please let me know.

 

[Whitigir]

Man...eventhough DP-X1 has it own "Cons"...but I am missing it dearly....very dearly....remember, you all are buying a product that is not globally released yet. It was released in "Japan" first because, Onkyo wanted to hear feed backs from their own people, own market, before releasing it to the global. Eventually, they will work out the bugs, and especially seeing how "frequently" they release OTA upgrades in firmware ? I think you are all good to go.

I wish Sony somehow would even upgrade firmware for Zx2..."twice"...they only did it once when it was released from Japan to global market, and done...until now...lol