Onkyo A800 – "MASTER CLASS"

[Saberpunch]

For me my 300B combo sounds like a 100K setup. As you already discover tubes takes away the meat, it also control the bass and makes it even better and perfectly put more balance and depth into the A800.

Nice Onkyo A800 harem

 

[Saberpunch]

Hey guys,
I have a friend who wants to build a dedicated headphone amp for me, based on two 417a as Pre/Gain tubes, and two 45 for the output, they are intended to suite my low impedance and high sensitivity Audio Technica cans. (W11PN & W5000).

He has some rectifier tubes in mind, I forgot the model name :/

What do you think of this combo and particularly on the 45 tube as output ?

I would also like to know if you know any amp that uses the 45 as output tube, there are probably some for speakers, but I wonder if there were any for headphones

I remember there is a 300B amp, which his quite exclusive, or am I wrong ?

My guy is a true tube guy who is mainly influenced from Sakuma and Kundo from AudioNote Japan, he plans on utilizing as much transformers as possible and as less caps as possible (sakuma style).
He likes using 300B and 845 tubes but he said the 45 is more linear but has 1/3 of the 300B output, therefore is great for headphones (which requires a low wattage) but not that good for speakers.

The amps is planned to cost around 1300$, the cost is mainly parts cost.

I got too much into technical, which is not my strongest part, I leave it to my friend

I would really appreciate your comments.

Thanks

I recently got more interested on 45 tubes (mainly because I don’t hear too much about them). The above quote got me even more interested in 45 tubes. My gut is telling me my next investment should be a good 45 tube amp. They say the 45 tubes is a great combo for low impedance cans. So that might be great combo for Onkyo A800. Downside is the 45 tubes are apparently really rare. So if it breaks on me…

 

[protoss]

great combo for Onkyo A800

As long the A800 excels and soars, its a win win.

Cheers

 

[Saberpunch]

Back with some more updates on my Onkyo A800 adventure. The central theme will be about trying the new Caldera ZMF pads on the Onkyo A800! Mainly the thin perforated pads and the suede perforated pads. I felt too lazy to remove the Cowhide (slim) perforated pads from my L3000. I order new ZMF solid pads to replace them, so I will probably try the Cowhide (slim) perforated pads on the A800 after I swap pads on the L3000.

I played at least 1 hour and 45 minutes on play time on my favorite tags in Roon for both pads. For the final test, I just chose 6 songs and swapped pads after finishing those 6 songs. Sorry, I just felt like listening to Jmusic today. Felt lazy, so I use Brambleton - Pusha T 1st 20 seconds to get a feel for the sub-bass.

Songs Use:​

Party Rock Anthem - LMAO
未来の人へ Orchestra ver. - TRUE, FILMharmonic Orchestra Prague
Harmony of One's Heart - Kairi Yagi
Shadowbringers - FFXIV Masayoshi Soken
あのバンド - 結束バンド
青春コンプレックス - 結束バンド

Gears: Roon > Mojo Audio Mystique EVO > Nitsch Magni Piety > Onkyo A800​

Quick review:​

I honestly think the thin pads did everything better than the suede. At 1st, I really enjoy the suede pads because they were very comfy and vocals seem to shine a little more from my previous pads. When I switch to the thin pads, I instantly realize that the suede pads have been decreasing the sub-bass slam. I never really notice because a lot of the songs I listen to don't really have a slam and I've been using the Caldera for like the past 2 weeks while switching to the L3000 and A800 (suede pads). Electric guitar, bass guitar, and drums sound soooooooo much better on the thin pads. For the thin pads, the guitars have a more lasting effect (I guess a more echoing effect), especially noticeable in the first 2 minutes of Shadowbringers. Vocals sounded less veiled to me on the thin pads, that might be because vocals sounded way closer on the thin pads. With the suede pads, the vocals seem like the middle rows to me. Thin pads felt way closer, maybe the second front row. The A800 soundstage was never too impressive to me, so I like its more intimate soundstage with thin pads.

The A800 vocals, which I care about the most, shine the most using the thin pads. Going forward, I will probably use the thin pads for the Onkyo A800. I'll probably compare the thin pads with the cowhide (slim) perforated pads when my ZMF solid pads come in for my L3000.

Next Step:​

After comparing pads, my next step is to find a nice amp for the A800. Not to power it since it can run on anything, but to find my favorite combination with the A800. I upgraded my DAC to the Mojo Audio Mystique EVO and its been amazing. Roon help me hear the next level of potential of my DAC. Now I gotta find an amp to finish the combo! The Cayin HA-3A is good, but I felt like that amp is made to sound good for every headphone and does good on every headphone equally. So I want to find an amp that is specifically made for Dynamic Headphones and will push Dynamic Headphones to their limit. I don't care about the 45 headphone tube amps anymore since its really hard to find and the 45 tubes are pretty hard to find as well. The headphone amp I will look for is a really good SS amp and a rare tube amp. I want a tube amp to see if it gives the A800 a more holographic soundstage. The SS amp I'm thinking of getting next is the DSHA-3FN. I heard the ECP DSHA3F is the best SS for dynamic headphones, but terrible for planars. I emailed Ceetee to see if he could put a 6.3mm output to the DSHA-3FN (cause I wanted to try the L3000 on it) and he emailed me back in less than 40 minutes with the most detailed reply explaining why it's probably best to only use the 4pin XLR output. When I saw that reply, I am a believer in the Nitsch company. I could tell he is extremely passionate about what he doing and I hope he and his company become very successful because they deserve it. So I know the DSHA-3FN is going to be a great successor to the ECP DSHA3F. I also bought the Nitsch MagPie to see his company's first work and it's amazing.

Time to wait for the DSHA-3FN to drop, so for now... I will enjoy A800 with these thin pads and MagPie combo

For anyone reading this, try the Onkyo A800,​

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year​

 

[protoss]

@Saberpunch

A800 is very efficient. It needs an IEM-type amplifier: studio 6, Audio Technica beast, AT-HA5050H are great.

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-ca/headphones/accessories/amplifiers/at-ha5050h

https://www.aloaudio.com/shop/studio-six/



I find it perfect with jds lab element 2 or 3 on low gain.

Perfect on low gain and on a $10 dac, lol; that red light box is a tda 1543 chip $10 dac

 

[Saberpunch]

LOL, that AT-HA5050H looks like a BEAST! I was also looking at old AT amps like the AT-HA5000 and AT-HA2002 on ebays, but I never pull the trigger because I couldn't find too many reviews on them. They also will be hard to sell back to the market if I don't like them. The Studio Six amp might be pretty good. I see they use 6V6 tubes like the HA-3A (Previous amp I owned) and I like those tubes a lot.

I realized the A800 were super sensitive when I plugged to the HA-3A via 3.5mm. That was the first time I heard the hum from the tube amp. I bought a 4.4mm and 4pin XLR cable for the A800 and it was dead silent. I'm not too sure on the 4.4mm output, but the 4pin XLR output in the HA-3A output more power than the 3.5mm and it still got a black background with the A800. I could still turn the knob like half way. Now, the MagPie was a different experience. With the MagPie, I am forced to use low gain. If I use high gain, I can realistically only listen to like 1 or 2 dial up. Any further and I feel like it's going to break the headphones and my ears. But low gain on the MagPie is so sweet to the ears. The MagPie is a SS amp that is supposed to sound like tubes. I think it sound fantastic with the A800, but that might be because of my Mystique Evo DAC, I am not too sure.

Thanks for the recommendation as always Protoss, you really do know all the good stuff. I'm really happy with my Mojo Audio Mystique EVO, its a really good R2R DAC with a nice warm signature. But man... that AT-HA5050H looks so tempting LOL. Maybe if I could convince myself to spend $8000 on just a amp or sell my Mystique EVO for a 1 stop setup, just maybe...

For now, I think I still want to get the DSHA-3FN mainly out of respect for Ceetee. That man gave me a detailed explanation with a metaphor example that even I could understand on his amp and even a timeline on what he is planning to do from now all the way to February. I never met him, but that was a really professional email and he replied to me under an hour each time. I was too impressed, gotta try his next products. I know, I'm easy, and also the MagPie was really sweet amp. If the DSHA-3FN is a bust, I'll probably stick with the MagPie for the A800 for the SS amp. For the tube amp, that's up in the air, still trying to research on it more. Maybe I should stick with a 6V6 amp because the Onkyo A800 is a sensitive headphone.

Thanks again Protoss, Merry Christmas and have a Happy New Year!

 

[nagi8404]

By chance I found one of these unused in a box, I should try just for fun

 

[Saberpunch]

By chance I found one of these unused in a box, I should try just for fun

Nice!!! You should try the Onkyo A800 and tell us how you feel about them. To me, it’s my favorite headphone even compare to everything I own and use to owned.

***Headphones I Own***

*= I really like the headphone

AKG K240 Sextett EP
AKG K340 (Red Driver Version)
*Audio Technica L3000
*Audio Technica W10VTG
Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 250 Ω
Mezes 99 Classics Walnut Gold
*Onkyo A800 using mod (let me replace the cable) LQI Silver 3.5mm Cable, Youkamoo 4.4mm Cable, and NewFantasia Balanced Cable 4pin XLR
*Sennheiser HD580 Jubilee
*ZMF Caldera Kingwood LTD

***My Ex-Headphones (Don't Own Anymore)***
*Audeze MM-500
Focal Clear OG
Hifiman Edition XS
Hifiman HE-R9 JM Stealth Mod
Meze 109 Pro
*Sennheiser HD600 (2019 or later version)
Sony MDR-Z1R

 

[Saberpunch]

Dang… the AT-HA5050 is actually only $6000 USD, which is more appealing than $8000. I found one in the used market for $4000… which honestly make me want to pull the trigger right now!

The more I look into it, I think the AT-5050 is more what I was looking for! Is a tube/SS hybrid so the best for both worlds. It uses SE output so I can use my old AT Woodies L3000, W10VTG with it. People tested iems on it, so it would work great with the A800. There was one post that mention it’s on the same level the ECP L3 amp, so I guess they are saying this amp is on a legendary level? I might try to read more so I could try to twist my arm some more. I might have to make some changes to my amp plan this year…

AT-HA5050 Thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sneak-peek-of-audio-technica-at-ha5050h-pre-production-unit.749555/

US Link: https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/headphones/accessories/amplifiers/at-ha5050h

 

[nagi8404]

Nice!!! You should try the Onkyo A800 and tell us how you feel about them. To me, it’s my favorite headphone even compare to everything I own and use to owned.

Gonna be a very tough challenge since it'll be contended with HD800S, Elite, and 1266 φTC

 

[Saberpunch]

Gonna be a very tough challenge since it'll be contended with HD800S, Elite, and 1266 φTC

It’s not a challenge if it’s the A800
I’m not a fan of the newer headphones, that’s why I sold a majority of them. The first minute I listen to the L3000, I instantly sold my entire collection and I only really buy hidden gems nowadays. The only exception I gave was the Caldera, but mostly because I knew the Kingwood will be a nice collectable in the future and ZMF products looks really cool. The only headphone that blew my mind besides the L3000 was the Onkyo A800. The naturalness, vocal reproduction, timbre on string and percussions, the A800 feels unmatched. If I was looking for fast and clarity, I wouldn’t look at dynamic or planars headphones, I’ll look into electrostatic headphones, which I will one day.

For my taste, I like the warm stuff: A800 > Old AT Woodies (L3000 / W10VTG) > Everything else

For my test on classical music, I went to the live concert and immediately tested with the Onkyo A800 when I got home. My favorite test was Manuel De Falla - Nights in the Garden of Spain, Ludwig Van Beethoven - Pastoral, and Hector Berlioz - Symphonie fantastique. I’ll probably suggest you listen to a live concert in the middle row and then listen to a recording if you want to do a classical music test. It’s to keep the memory fresh on how the instruments should sound like.

I feel like this is a visual representation of the A800 vs other headphones:

A800: ========== > my ears
Other headphones: •••••••• > my ears

A800 has more body, weight, and soul to me compare to the other headphones.

 

[Saberpunch]

Also Merry Christmas @nagi8404
I noticed you are from Japan, so Christmas might be over on the other side of the world, but it just started in the States

 

[nagi8404]

@Saberpunch Merry Christmas to you too
Had a very nice Christmas lunch and then back to work the next day

I'm definitely replacing the cable on this thing, looks a lot like stax's flat cables.

 

[Saberpunch]

I'm definitely replacing the cable on this thing, looks a lot like stax's flat cables.

Replacing the cable is pretty hard. You’ll need a mod like mine or find a really specific cable. I forgot the requirements.

 

[nagi8404]

I read on the other A800 thread that it uses LCD1 wiring.
I'm sure any reputable cable maker can make it.

6.35mm tip -> 3.5mm left channel tip
6.35mm ring -> 3.5mm right channel ring
6.35mm sleeve -> 3.5mm sleeve on both left and right channels