[shwnwllms]

So, going by their ad copy, they fixed NOS in the new version but not in the existing version? Sigh.

Looks like it replaces the existing version of each in their shop, so current owners are SOL ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I wonder if there will be a DSP board upgrade offered (like what was done on Termy OG)

 

[dcguy73]

Looks like it replaces the existing version of each in their shop, so current owners are SOL ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I wonder if there will be a DSP board upgrade offered (like what was done on Termy OG)

Hopefully Alvin will address this soon.

 

[roderickvd]

So, going by their ad copy, they fixed NOS in the new version but not in the existing version? Sigh.

Not so sure if that ad means NOS is fixed even in the new version. It shows a sine wave with a staircase. The pictures that "uncovered" that NOS wasn't really NOS showed an impulse response. Those are two different things. I am pretty sure the existing NOS will also show a staircase-shaped sine wave.

Another thing I would really like to see fixed is to not reclock I2S inputs, or at least give the option of not doing so. I am not sure if "I²S DIRECT INTEL® FPGA" takes care of that.

In fact the entire ad just doesn't really tickle me for an upgrade. It all seems a bit vague to me, touting terms and names they know that us audiophiles will latch onto but, none of it specific. I hope Denafrips and Vinshine won't venture into that path deeper, as I have always regarded both of them highly for being amazingly transparent on technicalities while not taking a stance on either objectivism or subjectivism.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Denafrips and just have high hopes!

 

[richardloh]

Hope dual AES not working issue of Tplus also had been resolved !

 

[kingoftown1]

Copper/Silver/Gold wire alloy sounds a lot like Mundorf Angelique (great for power supplies), but you'd think Denafrips would take advantage of the opportunity to name drop if that were the case. I wonder who else is making wire alloys like that.

Regardless of the source, that part of the update shouldn't fly under the radar.

 

[Giru]

Another thing I would really like to see fixed is to not reclock I2S inputs, or at least give the option of not doing so. I am not sure if "I²S DIRECT INTEL® FPGA" takes care of that.

I've read this somewhere else before too. Would you be kind enough to share the link of the forum/thread/webpage where this has been discussed in detail?

I have been considering upgrading my desktop dac (currently a single board DDDAC 1794 dac). I was quite intrigued by these modern fpga based ladder dacs and have been extensively auditioning some of these over the past year and a half.

The problem with auditioning denafrips (especially the non plus terminator) has been the difference in components in the same model of the dac. For example; the OG Termy has three/four variations:

Version 1 (oldest): the first one with the older dsp board,

Version 2: v1 + updated dsp board,

Version 3 (circa 2019): upgraded dsp, clocks (probably sporting a better tcxo) and red wima caps with the white mundorf ones

Version 4 (circa 2020): the final iteration with a whole new dsp board, wima and evox caps (instead of mundorf) and probably the same tcxo as the previous variant (I'm not sure about this).

I've heard versions 1, 3 and 4 from the above; #3 being the best of the three. The 4th was just way too U shaped in it's sound signature. The first iteration (oldest) was probably the most syrupy with a bit of a veil. 3rd to me sounded best; a composite of the 4th and the first. It is the most tonally rich yet balanced and organic of all the termies.

Ofcourse, denafrips went into a whole new direction with T2 and T+ (the best of the bunch). T2 is definitely more resolving and etched of all the non-plus termies. Fine detail is really apparent on this one. However it is also decidedly sharp and bottom heavy (kinda like the 4th termy version). The texture, tonaiity and the smoothness of the OG Termy (version 3 as stated above) is gone here. Anyway, T+ is a step above all, very detailed, slightly less organic but much more cohesive and spacious than any termy. These are my personal observations so ymmv. I take notes when I listen and try to listen to my 10 track test list as many times as I can on both speakers and headphones.

Anyway, I dunno what new sauce Denafrips has put in the 12th anniversary versions; I just hope they put the smoothness and texture of the OG Termy ver3 into the T+ and I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

 

[roderickvd]

I've read this somewhere else before too. Would you be kind enough to share the link of the forum/thread/webpage where this has been discussed in detail?

I'm not sure if I understand your question. It's a personal desire of mine, not something I read somewhere on the net. Although I am sure others share my desire and might have discussed about it.

 

[Giru]

I'm not sure if I understand your question. It's a personal desire of mine, not something I read somewhere on the net. Although I am sure others share my desire and might have discussed about it.

I meant where did you read that the I2S is reclocked in the Terminator?

 

[roderickvd]

Ah I see. I believe this is mentioned on the product pages, something like “reclocks all inputs”. In the end I emailed Alvin who confirmed.

 

[Giru]

Ah I see. I believe this is mentioned on the product pages, something like “reclocks all inputs”. In the end I emailed Alvin who confirmed.

Does this mean that external DDCs' augmented with better clocks (external or internal) will have no/minimum effect on the sound quality?

We did try the gaia with the t1 (v1) and there was a difference. However since we were comparing other DACs too, I had not paid close attention.

 

[roderickvd]

It depends on the original source. If SPDIF, sound quality may improve as the PLL in the DAC can have a smaller bandwidth (although I believe the Denafrips units use a hybrid PLL anyway) - but never better than the built-in clock. If asynchronous USB, it will bring additional galvanic isolation which may improve SQ (although the T1's is already isolated, so whether this is going to be audible is highly questionable) but throws away the external clocking. So if you have a really great clock, better than the one in the T1, that's when you want I2S with the option to disable reclocking or the PLL.

 

[newToAudio100]

Any Terminator plus owners on here game or watch movies with the t+?
I'm interested in the dac but I heard there is an input delay of a few hundred milliseconds. I'm just wondering if there is a way to eliminate the delay for games or movies when you need real time audio.

 

[S-S-MR]

Any Terminator plus owners on here game or watch movies with the t+?
I'm interested in the dac but I heard there is an input delay of a few hundred milliseconds. I'm just wondering if there is a way to eliminate the delay for games or movies when you need real time audio.

I use A/V sync correction setting for JRiver Media Center. I simply added the Input and Output Latency from the Denafrips ASIO driver and rounded to the nearest millisecond. Seems to work well for me.

 

[MilitaryHifi]

I'm in the market for a denafrips terminator. I wanted to get your opinion on which one would you get?

Pre-owned 2021 Denafrips Terminator plus
or
Brand new Denafrips Terminator 2 12th

If they were both around the same price? I'm torn on which one to get, seeing if anyone here would be able to help me with my decision. I do have a gaia, and thats making me lean towards the T2 12th, because of the new i2s Direct intel fpga.

Thanks for the help.

 

[MilitaryHifi]

DISCLAIMER: This information was gathered from Denafrips/Vinshine Site & Videos. I've no personal experience with any of the mentioned equipment.

Alright, I compiled this information to help other potential buyers. This was the information I gathered from different denafrips videos, Vinshine Alvin videos and spec list on the websites. I am currently in the market for a denafrips totl dac. Me being no stranger to buying from the preowned market, older gear for a substantial cheaper price. I always recommend purchaing older gear to save more money and have more funds for future pre owned gear.

With denafrips and a lot of the different audio companys, some make it harder then others to know exactly how outdated the older gear is compared to the new gear.

Lets begin.


Understanding denafrips uses trickle down technology.

Terminator originally released in 2017 for 4000

Terminator Plus released in 2020 for 6200

Terminator 2 released in 2021 1 year after for 4500

Terminator 2 12th released end of 2022 - start of 2023 for 4600

Terminator plus 12th released for 7141 end of 2022

Currently Terminator 2 12th is 4900

Currently Terminator plus 12th is 7500

Terminator 2 released in 2021, took all the upgrades from the Terminator Plus.

Taken from website:

Improvements of the Terminator II over the older Terminator:

Total segregation of Digital Signal Processing and R-2R Network Arrays (Analog) boards
Oven-Controlled Crystal Oscillators OCXO replace the TCXO clocks.
High-speed Digital Isolation. The silicon-dioxide (SiO2 ) isolation barrier with isolated power supply effective isolate the ground and block the noise from one end to the other
Redesigned Power Supply Unit (encapsulated underneath the DAC board)
Supercapacitors for Digital & Analogue circuitry for high energy storage to ensure supply of constant cleaned DC power to the circuitry
Clock Out eco-system to sync with DENAFRIPS DDC.


Now you ask, what are the differences between the Terminator II and the Terminator Plus?

The differences between the Terminator II and Plus, the Terminator Plus comes with premium offering of:

Aluminum anodized curvy front panel
Precision, hand-picked, premium OCXO
Hand-picked R-2R board

Terminator 2 12th/plus 12th upgrades from previous model Terminator 2/plus

Enhanced critical circuitry to further minimize the noise floor
Greater tonal density • Ultra High Resolution
Upgraded components, including ROE NOS Caps
High-purity gold-silver-copper alloy enameled wire o-core transformer(s) (Power Supply)
Complete redesigned power supply circuitry
Direct FPGA processing of I2S • Shorter signal path guaranteed
(Signal paths only add distortion and noise and degrade performance and as such should be kept at minimum length) (Source hifi-advice)

This is the information I took from the different vinshine videos.

Pontus 2 is close to the original Venus
Venus 2 is close to the original terminator
Terminator 2 is close to the original Terminator plus

If denafrips finds a better way along the way they will change varients of components.

My assumptions from what I learned:

Venus 2 12th I would assume edges original Terminator.
Terminator 2 12th surpasses the Terminator plus.
Terminator Plus 12th is the new flagship totl, if you want best of the best.

From vinshine/denafrips video, Denafrips understands that the power supply quality makes a huge difference in sound quality.
From denafrips site. As a firm advocate of high-quality power supply being the bedrock of superior sound.

With the new gold,silver,copper of the psu in denafrips, my research turned me too googling: gold silver and copper wiring audio power supply
That in turn led me to find Mundorf Angelique. This was the only wire I found when googling gold, silver, copper wiring for audio power supply.

Maybe thats why the price increase is higher now, because of the cost of the wiring for the psu, which seems like the most expensive component being its so heavy.


So all these notes were for me, to help myself with the costly buying decision on which denafrips terminator to get. I can't swing the Terminator plus 12th for 7500+, but the Terminator 2 is right in the price I can do. The Terminator plus preowned market is around the same price as the new 12th. So with all the information I know now. I would take the Terminator 2 12th over the Terminator Plus if they were the same price.

Hope this helps all the buyers with their future purchase. I was confused because of so many different models and revisions. Great that denafrips does trickle down technology, not so good for second hand buyers, haha, it gets very confusing.