Giru
100+ Head-Fier
@MilitaryHifi : thanks for adding the info in one place buddy! Kudos!
Although I'd like to add a few things and suggest some corrections:
QUOTE1:
"This is the information I took from the different vinshine videos.
Pontus 2 is close to the original Venus
Venus 2 is close to the original terminator
Terminator 2 is close to the original Terminator plus
If denafrips finds a better way along the way they will change varients of components."
OPINION: Although Alvin himself mentions the above in his own words in the videos but I frankly think this is more marketing than fact. Before I purchased my own T1, I tried to listen to almost every r2r I could get my hands on. At this point I've heard almost all denafrips DACs except their 12th anniversary line and the new Enyo. My findings:
Pontus 2 is close to the original Venus - Probably true
Venus 2 is close to the original terminator - Straight up No
Terminator 2 is close to the original Terminator plus- Probably No
The original Venus was a nice DAC and I had liked it quite a bit, the Pontus 2 was quite similar and maybe only lacked in overall resolution; sounding a bit more fuzzy and laid back.
The difference between the Venus 2 and the OG Termi are not so subtle. The Venus 2 sounds more close to it's second gen elder brother, sounding quite fast, airy and more "U" shaped. The OG Termi on the other hand is wayyy more organic, deep, impactful and dynamic (special emphasis on the dynamic part). The OG termi also has a better sound-stage and a sense of sense of scale while the Venus 2 "appears" to sound more "clearer" owing to it's "airiness". To me almost all second gen models sounded sorta overprocessed and lacking that dynamism from the OG Termi, giving an increased "sense" of resolution while losing that magical "depth" and heft the OG termi had.
The T2 and the OG T Plus are also different sounding in the same sense. However the differences are more subtle here. Although to be frank I did not get as much time with the T2 to be able to defend my stand.
QUOTE2: "
My assumptions from what I learned:
Venus 2 12th I would assume edges original Terminator.
Terminator 2 12th surpasses the Terminator plus.
Terminator Plus 12th is the new flagship totl, if you want best of the best."
OPINION: Again the same thing; newer firmware or different parts doesn't mean "better" sound. This is all a bit too subjective and frankly I wouldn't go by the above at all and try to audition as many of these as possible.
QUOTE3: "
Direct FPGA processing of I2S • Shorter signal path guaranteed
(Signal paths only add distortion and noise and degrade performance and as such should be kept at minimum length) (Source hifi-advice)"
OBSERVATION: So there's a lot of confusion here: Apparently almost all Denafrips DACs (exccept the 12th anniversary ones) "process" their digital input signals (change protocol, reclock, reorder, etc), and apparently this is true even for it's I2S. The I2S is however supposed to go straight to the DAC section (as in case of most modern DACs) without any processing, this is the "shorter signal path" concept that Denafrips is referring to here (i think), where the internal DDC/Processing is bypassed and the singal is routed straight to the ladder or whatever.
I don't want to start some new controversy here so I'll just get down to the facts and my own observations:
- The OG T1s manual (courtesy audiophilestyle: https://audiophilestyle.com/s3/article-images/2021/0802/Denafrips Terminator User Manual.pdf) mentions on page 2:
"2.2 I2S INPUT:
Terminator i2s DAC works slave mode, the source i2s shall provide the necessary MCLK to work with the DAC. The i2s is not an industrial standard, DENAFRIPS cannot guarantee the compatibility with other i2s devices."
So apparently the I2S on the OG Termi is working in slave mode and hence it's simply taking in the signal and passing it on to the DAC section directly without any processing. The reason I say this is coz if the DD section of the DAC was processing (reordering, changing protocol, etc) of the I2S signal here it would've surely had to reclock it too as the source clock signal would not be in temporal sync with the restructured data. Again, I'm no expert here but this is just what I found after asking around and reading up when I was not satisfied with replies from official channels.
- My doubts were cleared when I started to play around with DDCs and external clocks. TLDR: the OG termi benefits a great deal with an external DDC and more so when that DDC has a good clock (internal/external). This is not the case with T plus or the T2. Infact the performance of the OG T1 scales sooo much with a good external DDC+Clock that it runs circles around the T2/T plus. I have tried the DI20 HE, Mutec MC3+ and GAIA. The T+ had subtle changes to the overall sound no matter which DDC it was paired with. The OG T1 however became a whole new thing with the DI20HE pairing and in a different league when supplied an external clock (afterdark, cybershaft and LHY clocks are one's I've heard till now; cybershaft pairing being the reason I got my T1).
(NOTE: I'm not sure about the performance of Denafrips DDCs in general, I didn't care for the GAIA and thought it made the sound a bit too crystalline/hard. The price was also very high for the marginal increase in performance. The differences were very small with T2/T plus)(I've heard the T2 only with the GAIA and not with the agd or mutec).
In conclusion, the OG T1 is still the better DAC and value IMHO. I was lucky to find a good used unit (albeit at a slightly higher price) but I'm happy with the sound after having heard the newer offerings from denafrips. It gives me the sound I want and the ability to scale using better clocks/DDCs ensures some amount of future proofing.
TLDR: Try to find a used OG T1. Get a good DDC and Clock, you won't be disappointed.
Although I'd like to add a few things and suggest some corrections:
QUOTE1:
"This is the information I took from the different vinshine videos.
Pontus 2 is close to the original Venus
Venus 2 is close to the original terminator
Terminator 2 is close to the original Terminator plus
If denafrips finds a better way along the way they will change varients of components."
OPINION: Although Alvin himself mentions the above in his own words in the videos but I frankly think this is more marketing than fact. Before I purchased my own T1, I tried to listen to almost every r2r I could get my hands on. At this point I've heard almost all denafrips DACs except their 12th anniversary line and the new Enyo. My findings:
Pontus 2 is close to the original Venus - Probably true
Venus 2 is close to the original terminator - Straight up No
Terminator 2 is close to the original Terminator plus- Probably No
The original Venus was a nice DAC and I had liked it quite a bit, the Pontus 2 was quite similar and maybe only lacked in overall resolution; sounding a bit more fuzzy and laid back.
The difference between the Venus 2 and the OG Termi are not so subtle. The Venus 2 sounds more close to it's second gen elder brother, sounding quite fast, airy and more "U" shaped. The OG Termi on the other hand is wayyy more organic, deep, impactful and dynamic (special emphasis on the dynamic part). The OG termi also has a better sound-stage and a sense of sense of scale while the Venus 2 "appears" to sound more "clearer" owing to it's "airiness". To me almost all second gen models sounded sorta overprocessed and lacking that dynamism from the OG Termi, giving an increased "sense" of resolution while losing that magical "depth" and heft the OG termi had.
The T2 and the OG T Plus are also different sounding in the same sense. However the differences are more subtle here. Although to be frank I did not get as much time with the T2 to be able to defend my stand.
QUOTE2: "
My assumptions from what I learned:
Venus 2 12th I would assume edges original Terminator.
Terminator 2 12th surpasses the Terminator plus.
Terminator Plus 12th is the new flagship totl, if you want best of the best."
OPINION: Again the same thing; newer firmware or different parts doesn't mean "better" sound. This is all a bit too subjective and frankly I wouldn't go by the above at all and try to audition as many of these as possible.
QUOTE3: "
Direct FPGA processing of I2S • Shorter signal path guaranteed
(Signal paths only add distortion and noise and degrade performance and as such should be kept at minimum length) (Source hifi-advice)"
OBSERVATION: So there's a lot of confusion here: Apparently almost all Denafrips DACs (exccept the 12th anniversary ones) "process" their digital input signals (change protocol, reclock, reorder, etc), and apparently this is true even for it's I2S. The I2S is however supposed to go straight to the DAC section (as in case of most modern DACs) without any processing, this is the "shorter signal path" concept that Denafrips is referring to here (i think), where the internal DDC/Processing is bypassed and the singal is routed straight to the ladder or whatever.
I don't want to start some new controversy here so I'll just get down to the facts and my own observations:
- The OG T1s manual (courtesy audiophilestyle: https://audiophilestyle.com/s3/article-images/2021/0802/Denafrips Terminator User Manual.pdf) mentions on page 2:
"2.2 I2S INPUT:
Terminator i2s DAC works slave mode, the source i2s shall provide the necessary MCLK to work with the DAC. The i2s is not an industrial standard, DENAFRIPS cannot guarantee the compatibility with other i2s devices."
So apparently the I2S on the OG Termi is working in slave mode and hence it's simply taking in the signal and passing it on to the DAC section directly without any processing. The reason I say this is coz if the DD section of the DAC was processing (reordering, changing protocol, etc) of the I2S signal here it would've surely had to reclock it too as the source clock signal would not be in temporal sync with the restructured data. Again, I'm no expert here but this is just what I found after asking around and reading up when I was not satisfied with replies from official channels.
- My doubts were cleared when I started to play around with DDCs and external clocks. TLDR: the OG termi benefits a great deal with an external DDC and more so when that DDC has a good clock (internal/external). This is not the case with T plus or the T2. Infact the performance of the OG T1 scales sooo much with a good external DDC+Clock that it runs circles around the T2/T plus. I have tried the DI20 HE, Mutec MC3+ and GAIA. The T+ had subtle changes to the overall sound no matter which DDC it was paired with. The OG T1 however became a whole new thing with the DI20HE pairing and in a different league when supplied an external clock (afterdark, cybershaft and LHY clocks are one's I've heard till now; cybershaft pairing being the reason I got my T1).
(NOTE: I'm not sure about the performance of Denafrips DDCs in general, I didn't care for the GAIA and thought it made the sound a bit too crystalline/hard. The price was also very high for the marginal increase in performance. The differences were very small with T2/T plus)(I've heard the T2 only with the GAIA and not with the agd or mutec).
In conclusion, the OG T1 is still the better DAC and value IMHO. I was lucky to find a good used unit (albeit at a slightly higher price) but I'm happy with the sound after having heard the newer offerings from denafrips. It gives me the sound I want and the ability to scale using better clocks/DDCs ensures some amount of future proofing.
TLDR: Try to find a used OG T1. Get a good DDC and Clock, you won't be disappointed.
