[mrarroyo]

But most of our fellow citizens do not care much for what is going around them. Usually they fall in three categories:

1)The ultra rich who can pay for whatever including moving
2)The ultra poor who are worried where the next meal is comming from
3)The overwhelming mass of idiots (yes that is most of us) which are so ignorant and uninvolved in what is going on around. Heck most of us are just like cattle waiting to be slaughtered.

As you can surmise I truly believe that most of us need to get involved and help get things going forward.

 

[bnlsn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stewgriff I'll need a history buff for this, but doesn't the situation look a lot like the Balkans before World War II?

World War I actually

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

The overwhelming mass of idiots (yes that is most of us) which are so ignorant and uninvolved in what is going on around. Heck most of us are just like cattle waiting to be slaughtered.

this is nothing new and if you follow history it is damn near unbelevable how a few that are willing to impose their will on others and do things unthinkable for a normal person get away with it when the numbers say they should not.People WANT to be told what to do !
Sheep to the slaughter because it is easier than action.Reponsibility is a real b*tch and why so many shun it like a contageous disease while claiming the the opposite is true.Being a whimp is not even close to as bad as others knowing you are so lip service rages while rome burns

 

[saturnine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42 Here there is no excuse.If it is not force fed no one seems to have even the limited amount of "I want to know" to at the minimum go to one of our great repositories of learning and knowledge,the public library,and would instead rather spend the day trhinking about how to come up with enough loot to purchase a new computer or cell phone or maybe that "cool new game" they MUST have or the world will truly end.

Truth. I do believe a great number of members here, me included, fall under this category. People think they reach the pinnacle, but the pinnacle just keeps getting higher

I'm just getting into politics myself, so I have nothing worthwhile to add.

Thanks for keeping the conversation civil guys.

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

I'm just getting into politics myself, so I have nothing worthwhile to add.

if truth and straight talk meant public respect and a chance of getting elected i would run for local office myself but truth is no one wants it "straight" but would rather have the sugar plum pie in the sky a chicken in every pot version even though they KNOW it is all pure bull.No psychologist here man but I DO wonder about the why.
What makes folks so easily led ? Want so bad to belong to a group any group just to feel part of something rather than actually THINK then act on their won instinct on what is right ?
If it were just random events it would be meaningless but since the opposite is true it must go all the way back to some pack mentality where the "pack" needs the group and the "group" needs an Alpha Male because as individuals they may just sit in a corner of the cave and starve rather than venture forth alone and look for food

 

[mr.karmalicious]

Honestly, does everybody in the US always have to mention that "the Muslims" do this and "the Muslims" do that? And inserting "Islamic" in front of everything remotely negative? I, for one, feel that that's ridiculous. The fundamentalists sure as hell aren't Islamic, which Americans would know if they read the Quran instead of believing everything that ignorant fools (who have no place speaking about religion) tell them. The American public is SO ignorant when it comes to anything that isn't American/Christian, and it's ridiculous to see the kind of hate that goes on here just because people are different.

Furthermore, about the cartoons: yay, woo, freedom of speech is wonderful, and nobody has any right to censor the cartoonists. However, they made those cartoons with the sole intent of pissing off/offending Muslims. Are you telling me I would suffer /no/ consequences if I drew a cartoon of Jesus doing things that EXPRESSIVELY anti-Christian? I'm willing to bet I'd be shot, the way this country is right now.

Alright then.

EDIT: Oh, and rick, no offense intended (this time >

), but please use a bit more punctuation in your posts... I'm sure that I'd like to read what you have to say, but it burns my eyes to look...

 

[Todd R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nysulli this is so true, my fiance teaches 5th grade, and some retard is running their math and english programs, now don't panic, but she isn't allowed to teach long division, multiplication, or SPELLING. thats right, i've witnessed her 5th graders try as hard as they can to multiply 5x5, using all kinds of methods, from counting on their fingers, grouping tallies on a paper, etc. and still get the wrong answer, perfect example, she asked a kid, if someone gives you five nickles, how much money do you have, after a minute he said 30 cents!!!! the other biggie is spelling, i've read their papers, and its flat out horrible, now my spelling isn't great, but she can't grade or correct it, after all, thats what spell check is for isn't it? that being said, my fiance thankfully does teach spelling, multiplication tables and long division, even though it could mean her job if she was caught doing it, she just feels that strongly that her kids need to know that stuff all i know is these poor kids are doomed to failure, i honestly don't know how any of them are going to be capable of holding a decent job, especially when the type of jobs their parents think their gonna be fine getting in 10-20 years won't be here (low income school, 80% of her kids are from single parent households, and another 80-90% recieve school subsidized breakfest and lunch, and wouldn't eat if it weren't for those meals period) i just feel bad for them because they really have no idea how screwed they are in the long run, and their parents could give half a crap about it(the PTA should be called the TA, cause the teachers are required to be in it, and no parents show up, seriously, not a single one in a school of 700 kids)

What???
I find that really hard to comprehend. Where is this school?

That being said, remember one thing.....
It's the fault of the administrators, school boards, State & Federal Government that nonsense like this is going on.

My Wife teaches High School Science and Biology (now in her 11th year), so I get the inside scoop of what actually goes on, just like nysulli does.

Teachers try very hard to do their job, so when you criticize education please direct your anger towards the ones that deserve it, the administration.

Moronic rules and policies, lack of funding and equipment, larger class sizes, more requirements and duties every year, parents who don't care, kids who don't care, threats of lay offs, etc....all make the job more and more difficult every year.

The sad fact that is in the US, a school teacher is one of the LOWEST paying jobs that requires a Bachelors degree.

How about we forget building schools for some Iraqi kids, and spend the money on our own kids & teachers?

 

[saturnine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.karmalicious Are you telling me I would suffer /no/ consequences if I drew a cartoon of Jesus doing things that EXPRESSIVELY anti-Christian? I'm willing to bet I'd be shot, the way this country is right now.

Yeah, you might be shot and/or tortured, but Christians wouldn't be burning down buildings, causing riots and killing random people over a simple cartoon. Many Christians around the world feel persecuted, do you see them going around starting up another "Crusade"? I feel that there is a lot of built up tension in the Muslim world that needs to be let out, albeit at a different avenue than physical violence.

Mods, please delete this if you feel it is out of line.

 

[Todd R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saturnine I feel that there is a lot of built up tension in the Muslim world that needs to be let out, albeit at a different avenue than physical violence[/i]

Really!
They all need to get laid then go slam a few beers...

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

Muslim world that needs to be let out, albeit at a different avenue than physical violence

having a reason to wake up and then fill the day doing something useful would be a start.A large amount of people with nothing to do to fill their day other than hang out and complain about how bad things are can be guided easily to have a target for their ire.To blame someone else for things gone bad is also a well established human trait.
The flip side is folks with a job,a life,a family to support and monthly bills do not run around blowing things up.Just not enough hours in the day to both have a real life and also plot the end of humanity.

Owning a piece of the rock means you protect that rock instead of trying to blow it into sand

 

[scrypt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Guidry I'm glad I carefully read the thread before reacting to the first post and link. I hoped (rightly) that someone would say precisely this.

On that, you and I can agree (though I wouldn't have minded its being said a tad more precisely).

Quote:

Polls are becoming more and more just ways to confirm the biases of the poll sponsors. My proof is the long list of America bashers that ganged up in this thread to pile on these (suspect) poll results.

I agree with everything but the "America bashers" comment:

(i) Since most of the initial respondents live here, and since their tone sounds more familiar than not, it's quite possible they're talking about people as a whole, not Americans as some imaginary cretinous breed. If you substitute "the average person" for "the average American," the result is a criticism of human nature, not Americans per se.

(ii) Internal criticisms of America -- even the kind of generalizations some have made here -- do not usually constitute "America-bashing"; rather, they are a form of self-policing self-criticism. The founding fathers encouraged this (since it can lead to healthy change), especially in the form of voting. In my view, real advocates of freedom can't be hypersensitive.

(iii) I find it ironic that the third (and possibly most important) right listed in the First Amendment is the right to free speech, yet the idea that one shouldn't tolerate people "bashing America" is often characterized as ultra-patriotic. (I'm not saying that you yourself indulge in this fallacy, Jeff.) Based on the words of the Constitution ("Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press"), I'm compelled to conclude that refusing to tolerate, rather than accepting, people who merely voice negative opinions is inherently unpatriotic. By all means, disagree, but don't undermine anyone's right to free speech through intimidation. It isn't fair to brand another American a traitor simply because they're tactless.

(iv) Whether one bashes or brags about America is irrelevant. What matters is to avoid reacting to someone else's spin. Whether spin hides in the BBC's feigned objectivity (as we're fed a leading poll) or in Fox's amazing assertion that it is "spin-free" (as a list of daily slants and strategies to hammer home is dispensed to Fox's staff), the goal is to remain discerning and alert.

 

[Illah]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saturnine Yeah, you might be shot and/or tortured, but Christians wouldn't be burning down buildings, causing riots and killing random people over a simple cartoon. Many Christians around the world feel persecuted, do you see them going around starting up another "Crusade"? I feel that there is a lot of built up tension in the Muslim world that needs to be let out, albeit at a different avenue than physical violence.[/i]

This is a core difference between cultures. Now I don't excuse the bad behavior of the extremists, but realize that when 100,000 people protest it's really only 0.1% of those that are actually going to go out and suicide bomb and/or kidnap people. Most are just genuinely angered or are buying into mob logic. This isn't a Muslim/Arab trait either. The US race riots or even riots after NBA championships are just ways for people to get in on something bigger than themselves.

Now, regarding the 'pent up tension' - this is a major difference between cultures. Western cultures see time as moving in one direction, and the past is something to let go. The future is something to be treated like a crop. Sow good seeds today and reap rewards later, but there's nothing you can do about yesterday. Better to move on and look forward.

Not every culture looks at the world this way!

For example, Hindu's think of life as circular. The past is very important, and for those who belive in reincarnation someone else's past can affect their present.

The Arab/Muslim world places enormous weight in the past. It guides every aspect of their culture. It's intrinsic to them as a people. The western world has a left multiple scars on the Arab/Muslim culture dating back 1000's of years. Let's not debate who did what, that's beside the point. The real issue is those scars are there, and they're very real to a large portion of the world.

I've heard the Arab/Muslim concept of time referred to as a tapestry, with each new year adding layers the cloth, but at no point is the cloth ever looked at as 'behind' them. It defines them.

This doesn't mean there's no hope for the future. There are many moderate Muslims, and many have Westernized. I think the path to modernizing the very traditional Muslim world is through assistance, not conquest. Yes, there are many leaders there who won't be very helpful to anything associated with the west, but if we could work with the more moderate countries and demonstrate a better way of life then it would slowly creep in.

Many Muslim immigrants come to the US to escape the oppression - my fiance's family did. Her mom was a rebellios female doctor and that didn't fly in Saudi Arabia. They came to the US because they could afford to...but many are poor and are just stuck in that, just like poor folks in the US are stuck in housing projects. Like American poor who have a much greater tendency toward crime and ignorant ghetto-logic, those stuck in other countries are similarly defined by their environment.

--Illah

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

Like American poor who have a much greater tendency toward crime and ignorant ghetto-logic, those stuck in other countries are similarly defined by their environment.

It is NOT ghetto-logic ,a seriously insulting phrase to many BTW ,but zero prospects for the future and too much time due to no jobs available that pay enough to actually have a life.

poor folks are wharehoused in this and every single civilised country on the planet and the one thing they all have in common is a high crime rate and boredom because there is nothing else to do but get into trouble.

A full life,one crime free and peaceful usually goes hand in hand with financially solvent and when you are perpetually broke,the cost of living is higher than any job you have a shot at (if even this menial labor is available at all) and when you look around see it not getting better any time soon some people actually get pissed off and take it out on those they feel put them in that position to begin with.

It ain't pretty when you raise and entire neighborhood of predators then think you can walk there at night in safety wearing a Rolex......................

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.karmalicious The American public is SO ignorant when it comes to anything that isn't American/Christian, and it's ridiculous to see the kind of hate that goes on here just because people are different.

I assure you, most of them are ignorant of other Christian groups as well. Ask anybody what they know about "Greek Orthodox" and be prepared for the largest display of slack-jawed drooling you've ever encountered.

And the stat of people who don't know Judaism/Christian/Islam all worship the same monotheistic power is simply staggering. This has been common knowledge for 13 centuries!. And seemingly every other book written in the last 5 years was/is about Muslims/Islam. More people "know" aliens are in Area 51 and thats just a minor footnote in the long history of Science-Fiction.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink ....."

 

[ameyer17]

EDIT - removed because I don't want to get banned
Edit #2: people are idiots. let them lose their rights because they don't realize they're being taken away because they don't know they exist