[kadamian]

Guys, do ocharakus benefit from burn-in or is it just placebo? And what about amping? I've tried chord mojo but couldn't sense audible difference in quality

 

[kadamian]

some random thoughts after listening for 30+ hours:
 
+ uber-detailed and organic sound. non-fatiguing
+ fast and energetic sound
+ bass is very well-controlled, not overbloated. not for bass-heads
+ great, airy soundstage due to semi-open design
+ highs can be piercing, "s" and other "shhh"-sounds in vocals can be an issue but i have listened to VERY broad range of my tracks and i suspect it is more mastering issue e.g. poor or average master will NOT sound good on these earphones however when track is very well mastered the sound is godly
+ the sakura is totally unpredictable - i have songs that sound AWFUL on most earphones (mainly because of their prominent midbass which crawls to vocal area) but only sakura recreates them in such a fashion that i am literally rediscovering my music collection
+ after sakura the 846, jh rosie/layla sound veiled and "busy", not clear. bass sometimes overwhelms vocals. this never happens with sakura
+ which brings us to the most important trait of these earphones (which clearly distinguishes them from the 846, rosie, layla, 3003, ie800) - the sakura somehow presents each freq (bass/vocal/high) in its own domain, not overlapping with other freq's yet retainig very coherent sound. 
 
so, to conclude my 30+ hours listen i can say that sakura is like ety on steroids - it has better bass (i can literally feel the air), same amazing resolution/separation of instruments, "cocooned" freqs while retaining coherence (a problem with many multi-ba earphones) and, more importantly, airy soundstage: the ety has poor soundstage not only because of single ba driver but also because the deep insert with tri-flanges creates a "suckout" effect which compresses the soundstage (no airy feeling!) and renders long listening impossible. with sakura i can listen for hours (with comply tips)
 
now, of course, this earphone is not perfect:
 
- bass amount could be a bit more but it could be that i was accustomed to bass-heavy earphones
- dependance on mastering quality CAN be an issue - sometimes i have a feeling that male vocals sound thin but sometimes they sound godly. so this unpredictable nature of sakuras can render either a smile or sad in your soul
- they like to be driven - contrary to reports that mr. yamagishi designed them to sound great out any source, i am listening to the 846's on 50% of volume while sakura demands at least 75% of volume
 
right now i am trying to figure if amping can further improve already excellent sound reproduction - i have yet to try chord mojo via my iphone
 
 
here is a short list tracks that are meant to be listened on sakuras for you to take an approximate understanding which genre/mastering quality these earphones really "like". Links are to Apple Music:
 
1.  Soular Order - Drifting Apart  @AppleMusic: Drifting Apart
 
Great track for testing bass, treble and soundstage. Very atmospheric!
 
2. Zemfira - Live In Your Head  @AppleMusic: https://itun.es/ru/KyWPW?i=816252472
 
Great track from russian singer Zemfira. Very intimate, great mastering quality. Amazing reproduction of percussions, vocal and bass. Must listen!
 
3. Soulplace & Miloradovich - Her Loving Eyes (Tvardovsky "Slowdance" Remix) @AppleMusic: Her Loving Eyes (Tvardovsky 'Slowdance' Remix)
 
Another great electronic track to showcase bass and treble performance while maintaining coherence and clear presentation of both.
 
4. Richard Elliot -  Slow Burn @AppleMusic - Slow Burn
 
Sax, bass and something inbetween...Great moody track!
 
5. Oystein Sevag - Cobalt @AppleMusic:  Cobalt
 
A masterpiece violin solo breathtakingly presented by ocharaku. A must hear!
 
6. Fun' Lovin Criminals - Love Unlimited    @AppleMusic:  Love Unlimited
 
Great upbeat track. One of my test tracks because midbass is quite prominent so the majority of earphones leak the midbass into the vocals. Not the sakura! However, with sakura i can clearly hear the "s" sounds. I think it is because of not-so-good mastering quality.
 
7. Barry White - Baby's Home   @AppleMusic: Baby's Home
 
It's Barry White. That's all you need to know
God-level mastering quality. Must hear!
 
8. Vacant - Seeker  //  https://soundcloud.com/insight-music/vacant-trauma-ep-02-seeker
 
Great atmospheric dark ambient/future garage track. Bass/vocal/treble track. Great on Sakura!
 
9. Rob Dougan - Vale // https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drS-ZX37Dg8
 
Amazing orchestral piece from the composer of famous Clubbed to death (from The Matrix). Very engaging! Very good test for freq bleed as the orchestra plays in low region on background while violin plays its solo. Sakura present each instrument very clearly!
 
 
 
Will post again after 100+ hour mark.

 

[d3885u]

@kadamian

Do you have ever listened kaede?

 

[kadamian]

@kadamian

Do you have ever listened kaede?

no
 
getting sakura was a wild guess...and it worked!
 
frankly, i don't think sakura's sound sig will be that different from kaede. plus, sakura is the new flagship and i doubt that it is worse than kaede (and vice versa) just a slightly different sound signature, i suppose
 
would be great to hear kaede-owners' opinions, anyway

 

[recarcar]

They are more similar than they are different IMO. The sound signatures are just slightly different and the biggest departure to me is that the Sakura's treble response is just a tiny bit less energetic in the 7-10KHz region than the Kaede II. The 20-100Hz region may also be just a hair more elevated also but I could definitely see others not seeing it that way. 
 
The slightly changed FR in the treble region makes this earphone a little less picky about source material but not by much. Other than that they are nicely detailed, in terms of timbre they are very good with acoustic instruments, very nice instrument separation, and all the other qualities that made the Kaede such an interesting phone. 
 
I don't think one is better than the other, just very slightly different. They are just a tiny bit easier for me to listen to because of the slight changes, but they are still a bright phone and retain some of the funkiness in terms of FR of the Kaede II IMO. 
 
Because of the funny pricing of other flagship earphones, I think one could do much worse for their price or pay much more and get less or just different IME. But I think there are a lot of very good options for IEMs in the $100-300 range where you get very close to the SQ of the Kaede/Sakura but without the FR issues. 

 

[kadamian]

They are more similar than they are different IMO. The sound signatures are just slightly different and the biggest departure to me is that the Sakura's treble response is just a tiny bit less energetic in the 7-10KHz region than the Kaede II. The 20-100Hz region may also be just a hair more elevated also but I could definitely see others not seeing it that way. 

The slightly changed FR in the treble region makes this earphone a little less picky about source material but not by much. Other than that they are a nicely detailed, in terms of timbre they are very good with acoustic instruments, very nice instrument separation, and all the other qualities that made the Kaede such an interesting phone. 

I don't think one is better than the other, just very slightly different. They are just a tiny bit easier for me to listen to because of the slight changes, but they are still a bright phone and retain some of the funkiness in terms of FR of the Kaede II IMO. 

Because of the funny pricing of other flagship earphones, I think one could do much worse for their price or pay much more and get less or just different IME. But I think there are a lot of very good options for IMEs in the $100-300 range where you get very close to the SQ of the Kaede/Sakura but without the FR issues. 

i agree that "more drivers = better sound = higher price" is total crap

i wonder what will be the selling point in next years as driver count has already hit maximum possible threshold (14driver zeus i am looking at you)

nowadays literally everyone can put together knowles/sonion drivers and get 80% of ppl satisfaction - that and also the fact that ba drivers are largely the same in literally every ciem/iem made me choose smth special in "dynamic iem world"

 

[recarcar]

i agree that "more drivers = better sound = higher price" is total crap

i wonder what will be the selling point in next years as driver count has already hit maximum possible threshold (14driver zeus i am looking at you)

nowadays literally everyone can put together knowles/sonion drivers and get 80% of ppl satisfaction - that and also the fact that ba drivers are largely the same in literally every ciem/iem made me choose smth special in "dynamic iem world"

I am generally not a fan of BAs simply because most, though not all, don't have the timbral naturalness and cohesion of a good DD based earphone. Having said that, there are some wonderful multi BA earphones that I heave really enjoyed, but they almost always IME leave something to be desired in terms of timbre that have me coming back to DD IEMs. It's nice to see that there are more companies going the micro DD route as I think many of them sound great and are usually much cheaper to boot!

 

[James Reference]

I tried flat4's KAEDE TypeII before. It sounds unique, I never listen to anything like that before.
I think it's like a improved version of sony's EX1000

 

[AnakChan]

I think in comparing between the Sakura's and Kaede II's, it matters if one is comparing like-for-like as much as possible. e.g. I'd probably expect comparing a Sakura 30mm tube vs a Kaede II 28mm tube would yield a larger difference than comparing the Sakura 28mm tube vs the Kaede II 28mm tube. Naturally with the earlier Kaede (v1.0) had only one option - the 28mm.

I may try to go back to Fujiya today to compare my fully bedded in Sakura 30mm against the Kaedes again. Shockingly there's a 2nd hand Kaede v1.0 that costs more than a new Sakura. Those original Kaedes are actually appreciating in value.
 

Guys, do ocharakus benefit from burn-in or is it just placebo? And what about amping? I've tried chord mojo but couldn't sense audible difference in quality

 
To me the sound has changed a little but it's not like a massive change. The fundamental signature remains naturally but it's just more "smoothed out" - not so shouty, trebles are a tad smoother.

 

[recarcar]

  I think in comparing between the Sakura's and Kaede II's, it matters if one is comparing like-for-like as much as possible. e.g. I'd probably expect comparing a Sakura 30mm tube vs a Kaede II 28mm tube would yield a larger difference than comparing the Sakura 28mm tube vs the Kaede II 28mm tube. Naturally with the earlier Kaede (v1.0) had only one option - the 28mm.

I may try to go back to Fujiya today to compare my fully bedded in Sakura 30mm against the Kaedes again. Shockingly there's a 2nd hand Kaede v1.0 that costs more than a new Sakura. Those original Kaedes are actually appreciating in value.
 

Absolutely! Really wish I could have gotten a hold of the Aka Kaede II, but they were produced in a much smaller amount than the 28mm version if I am recalling correctly. I wouldn't doubt that the 2mm is what is making the Sakura's treble seem a little less energetic that the Kaedes I had, but looking forward to more impressions. 

 

[artwood100]

Damn reading everything here just make me more nervous. i've ordered the sakura and it will arrive on wenesday.
i previously owned a kaede 2 for 7 months and then sold it off , because of the piercing treble that the kaede has. 
i was really hoping that this sakura, can eliminate that problem, because aside from that treble i really like the acoustic accuracy on the kaede. 
i think its superb in that sense.

 

[recarcar]

  Damn reading everything here just make me more nervous. i've ordered the sakura and it will arrive on wenesday.
i previously owned a kaede 2 for 7 months and then sold it off , because of the piercing treble that the kaede has. 
i was really hoping that this sakura, can eliminate that problem, because aside from that treble i really like the acoustic accuracy on the kaede. 
i think its superb in that sense.

I wouldn't make too much of it. They may sound very different to your ears.
 
I basically did the same thing. I really liked a lot of aspects of the Kaede II's sound, but their unnatural treble and funny FR made me sale them. The AKA Sakura is very slightly more laid back in the treble to me than the non AKA Kaede II I had. You might experience it differently. I also ended it up picking the AKA version because of research related to treble reproduction and insertion depth. I took a flyer on these and so far they are just a tad more laid back and I think you might end up enjoying them a lot if you liked your Kaedes but want something with less peaky treble. 

 

[AnakChan]

One thing to note from Headfonia's Kaede II review is that it fixes a few things from the original Kaede. So to respecify the variables at play when we're comparing are :-

Kaede (I)
Kaede II 28mm
Kaede II 30mm
Sakura 28mm
Sakura 30mm
(Not including balanced versions)

Ok the following are live notes I'm writing whilst listening in Fujiya at the moment. My reference is the Sakura 30mm which has had about 170 hrs burn in by now. Comparisons are against demo & 2nd hand Kaedes in Fujiya with unknown burn in times. If you're not a believer of burn in then it doesn't matter.

Kaede II 28mm - sounds more tonally balanced than the Sakura's. My Sakura 30mm sound more upper mid forward. The Kaede II 28mm sounds more spacious & deeper imaging whilst my Sakura's seem to have more headroom. The Kaede II 28mm bass feels to have a little more resonance but also has a bigger sub bass impact than the Sakura 30mm though.
The Kaede II 28mm also seems to pick up hiss more easily than the Sakura 30mm. I tend to hear more distortion in the Kaede II than the Sakura's.

Kaede II 30mm (balanced) - seems a tad more aggressive version of he Kaede II 28mm. I would personally put it somewhere in between the Kaede II 28mm & Sakura 30mm. Tonally still very Kaede II 28mm like (i.e. More tonally balanced than the Sakura 30mm). Distortions are more easily heard on this than the Kaede II 28mm & Sakura 30mm.

Kaede I 28mm - again feels more tonally balanced with the Sakura 30mm sounding a little bit more upper mid forward. I would still say the Kaedes in any form are less aggressive than the Sakuras. Percussions on the Kaede I is just phenomenal. I feel cymbals are accurate on the Kaede I. The Kaede II 28mm feels more spacious than the Kaede I. The Kaede I has a little more internal reflections than the Kaede II.

I think I am slowly getting what Yamagishi-san is saying the Sakuras are the warmest of their Flat4 offerings. I was thinking of warm as in woolier bass but in this case I feel it's just more the trebles are less peaky & slightly less sensitive (I.e. Not picking up the hiss as easily as the Kaede's).

If I were to sum it up, I think the Kaede I was the most "liberal" of all 3 in terms of the resonance, treble sensitivity, etc. whilst the Salura's feel the most controlled (despite having the most aggressive tonal signature of the lot).

 

[d3885u]

Nice impression @anakchan

"The Kaede I has a little more internal reflections than the Kaede II."

Can you explain what do you mean with "internal reflection" is?

 

[kadamian]

Great impressions, AnakChan! I wish i could get a hold on those earphones, too!

As far as i can tell, sakura is also limited (500, i guess) so it is a matter of time when the last piece when be sold and it will mimic kaede I destiny price-wise (price spike because of scarcity, not because of sound quality).

Now if you say that sakura's treble is less peaky than kaede I/ kaede II i understand that i've made the right choice - would definitely don't want my sakura's treble to be even tad more peaky/prominent etc.

Btw, what about comparisons to AK T8ie? Can someone elaborate on these?