[Dark Helmet]

I've stumbled upon the post here, where "Uncle Eric" says that

"When it comes to headphones, you generally want an output impedance lower than the headphone impedance. This is called the 'Damping Factor'."

and also

"an output impedance higher than the headphone impedance loses control of the bass".

Afaik the z1 has a 100 Ohms resistor in the signal path just before the output, so output impedance will be at least 100 Ohms. Since I use earbuds with an impedance of 32 Ohms that does'nt sound too good.

So would it/could it be beneficiary to change that tiny thing (100 Ohms SMD resistor) to maybe 10 or 20 Ohms? Or have I misunderstood everything?

There is a guy at a russian forum here who has changed it for 10 (bullit no. 4), but he's doing all kinds of crazy stuff so I don't know if the resistor alone is meaningful..

That's not accurate. Look up what the output impedance is on the AK jr. And the Aune M1s. It should be 1 Ohm or less. A 32 Ohm bud wouldn't sound good on a device with an output impedance of 100 Ohms. I'm pretty sure the Z1 isn't 100 Ohms. Look up headphone output impedance on google. There is info from Nwavguy and it's very informative.

 

[knudsen]

That's not accurate. Look up what the output impedance is on the AK jr. And the Aune M1s. It should be 1 Ohm or less. A 32 Ohm bud wouldn't sound good on a device with an output impedance of 100 Ohms. I'm pretty sure the Z1 isn't 100 Ohms. Look up headphone output impedance on google. There is info from Nwavguy and it's very informative.

It's 100 Ohms, that's why I raise the question.

I tried bypassing it, and sound seemed fine but damn loud (I guess a factor 2.5 louder). So one has to do something else also, change the potentiometer to a higher resistance one or some other voodoo magic.

Some on the other forum use 10 Ohms (Heraleks who might be here also?)

 

[Dark Helmet]

Interesting. Here is an excerpt from this link.

"THE SHORT VERSION: All you really need to know is most headphones work best when the output impedance is less than 1/8th the headphone impedance. So, for example, with 32 ohm Grados the output impedance can be, at most, 32/8 = 4 ohms. The Etymotic HF5s are 16 ohms so the max output impedance is 16/8 = 2 ohms. If you want to be assured a source will work well with just about any headphone, simply make sure the output impedance is under 2 ohms."

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html

 

[macky112]

Interesting. Here is an excerpt from this link.

"THE SHORT VERSION: All you really need to know is most headphones work best when the output impedance is less than 1/8th the headphone impedance. So, for example, with 32 ohm Grados the output impedance can be, at most, 32/8 = 4 ohms. The Etymotic HF5s are 16 ohms so the max output impedance is 16/8 = 2 ohms. If you want to be assured a source will work well with just about any headphone, simply make sure the output impedance is under 2 ohms."

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html

True that, that's what I said a couple of posts back

 

[knudsen]

Interesting. Here is an excerpt from this link.

"THE SHORT VERSION: All you really need to know is most headphones work best when the output impedance is less than 1/8th the headphone impedance. So, for example, with 32 ohm Grados the output impedance can be, at most, 32/8 = 4 ohms. The Etymotic HF5s are 16 ohms so the max output impedance is 16/8 = 2 ohms. If you want to be assured a source will work well with just about any headphone, simply make sure the output impedance is under 2 ohms."

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html

I've read it too, guess we should all remove that 100 ohm resistor and teach em how its done As a novice I have no explanation other than nwavguy must not have heard of z1. Or it is crazily colored but we all like the color.

From the other forum:
Resistors 100 ohms at the output play two roles, reduces the need for capacity output capacitor for the lower cutoff frequency within reasonable limits and at the same time increase the load resistance of the resulting output of the amplifier, which reduces the need for current value DU headphone buildup -by simply allows to use in this circuit distortion-free wide range of op amp with large and small output currents.
In general, if your hearing sounds good, then so leave and do not worry

 

[Dark Helmet]

I've read it too, guess we should all remove that 100 ohm resistor and teach em how its done As a novice I have no explanation other than nwavguy must not have heard of z1. Or it is crazily colored but we all like the color.

From the other forum:
Resistors 100 ohms at the output play two roles, reduces the need for capacity output capacitor for the lower cutoff frequency within reasonable limits and at the same time increase the load resistance of the resulting output of the amplifier, which reduces the need for current value DU headphone buildup -by simply allows to use in this circuit distortion-free wide range of op amp with large and small output currents.
In general, if your hearing sounds good, then so leave and do not worry

I prefer to go with the last sentence.

 

[macky112]

I prefer to go with the last sentence.

"A CHEAP TEST: If you’re wondering if your current source is compromising the sound quality because of an unknown output impedance, consider buying the $19 FiiO E5 amp. It has a near zero ohm output impedance and has enough output for most many headphones under 100 ohms. If it obviously improves the sound, it’s likely your source has an output impedance that’s too high."
Well, as I stated a few posts back, get a Fiio A1 and do a simple test to remove and impedance related causes

 

[Nokizaru]

Wow, that would explain why my 50ohm vivo xe800 seemed to beat all the other earbuds I have on Z1shan (including RHA MA750, Carbo Tenores and Audeo)!

 

[golov17]

@ClieOS , any comments for guys?

 

[ClieOS]

@ClieOS , any comments for guys?

I have no experience on Z1 so I am merely making some educational guess based on what I have read on the last few pages: Assuming the output impedance is really 100ohm - a possible mod is to remove the output resistor completely, then go for a larger output capacitor (assuming 16ohm load, you will need 470uF at least). If removing the resistor makes the volume too loud, then change the gain factor the opamp stage to 1 (if it isn't already 1) or decrease the signal from the DAC by increasing the resistance between the DAC's output and the opamp input, or both. Last but not least, keep to a headphone friendly opamp (meaning good current output with low output impedance).

 

[locke1602]

Actually tested using the iphone 7 plus + CCK + Z1 as the DAC!! it works!!!!

Hi hellfire8888, can you play DSD64 on ip7 and pass to z1 by DoP?, i played dsd64 with onkyo hf player, it only covert dsd to PCM 48khz and sent data to DAC on Z1.

Thanks

 

[Nokizaru]

You need full version of Onkyo HF to stop it from "downgrading" music to 48khz

 

[randy183]

Interestingly, the DSD player (the Zishan player whith screen) had a firmware updated whith 180 EQ settings too.
So we could guess they used the same file in the Z1.

http://electronics.forumsee.com/a/m/s/p12-37981-0583276--the-zishan-dsd-s-corner.html
Something I find interesting about the EQ files is that if you open then with the text processor i.e., the parametrization was based on Rockbox EQ, which I find one of the best EQ systems. So by modifying these parameters in the text editor you can probably make your own EQ. This is very useful in order to have personalized EQ for your different cans, and probably you can modify the treble zone –notice that all of this 180 eq only modify the first 5th bars of the 10. This is a subject to investigate more, and made me think as well if external Rockbox playlists can be adapted to this player loaded in the same way that the eq.

 

[locke1602]

You need full version of Onkyo HF to stop it from "downgrading" music to 48khz

I'm using full version off Onkyo HF , when i connect ip with xDuoo XD5, Onkyo play with DSD ---- DSD , but with Z1, it only DSD ---- PCM

 

[silverfishla]

I'm using full version off Onkyo HF , when i connect ip with xDuoo XD5, Onkyo play with DSD ---- DSD , but with Z1, it only DSD ---- PCM

If I connect the Zishan to my Mac, my Mac (running Audinirvana) only shows the Zishan DAC running at 16/48.