New! WNA MKll Head-amp kit.
Oct 3, 2005 at 3:54 PM Post #631 of 764
Hi all,
I’m attaching some photos from my preamp. It has been running for a week now and I’ve done some test with rail splitter op-amp. The LM6171 is the winner to my ears here. I’ll start with some test in the amp section this week (right now it’s working with the OPA627).
Comparing the MKII with the PSU that you can see on the photo with the MKI (capless modified for LM6171 version, using AD8065) with a more conventional PSU (one WNA Cascode Power Supply for both channels) the MKII is in other league. The clarity and tonality are superb and dynamic is just impressive. OPA627 sounded dark and lack dynamic in the MKI but I’d a very good surprise in the MKII as here I had a very different picture. The AD8065 was much better in the MKI… if the improvement once I mount the AD8065 in the MKII is similar this will be like a dream come true!
 
Oct 3, 2005 at 10:18 PM Post #633 of 764
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paco
Hi all,
I’m attaching some photos from my preamp. It has been running for a week now and I’ve done some test with rail splitter op-amp. The LM6171 is the winner to my ears here. I’ll start with some test in the amp section this week (right now it’s working with the OPA627).
Comparing the MKII with the PSU that you can see on the photo with the MKI (capless modified for LM6171 version, using AD8065) with a more conventional PSU (one WNA Cascode Power Supply for both channels) the MKII is in other league. The clarity and tonality are superb and dynamic is just impressive. OPA627 sounded dark and lack dynamic in the MKI but I’d a very good surprise in the MKII as here I had a very different picture. The AD8065 was much better in the MKI… if the improvement once I mount the AD8065 in the MKII is similar this will be like a dream come true!



Nice Paco! Very nice indeed! Let us know how you find the 8065 in the MKll
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Oct 3, 2005 at 10:41 PM Post #634 of 764
Quote:

Originally Posted by spendorspain
And now a question for the "WNA-meister"
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, i.e. Pink Floyd.



Jeez I must use my reading glasses, I thought that read "WANK-meister"
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Thanks for the compliment Jose but I'm probably closer to the latter than the former... I'm just your average punter with a soldering iron..... there's no black magic involved in soldering a WNA kit together, the meister is Snowy (Dr. White) I'm just a mere twit with an obsessive compulsive soldering disorder
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Quote:

Originally Posted by spendorspain
Thank you for your previous answer, but I'd like more information about these diodes (I1, I2, D1 and D2), if I order them from other supplier than Rapid. I'm unfamiliar with diode terminology (I've seen references like 1N4148, 1N5711, 1N4007, etc., black or glass bodies, constant current, zener and other types, different values, ratings...), so any explanation and specific references would be welcome.


Really..... what is there to say? D1 and D2 are 1N4148 signal diodes housed in a DO-35 package (a penny each) Bog standard 1N4148

47330801.jpg


I1 is a 3.5mA Current regulating diode in an axial package.
I2, I3 and I4 are 5.6mA Current regulating diodes in an axial package.

47260001.jpg


Just make sure they are inserted with the correct orientation on the board (the black line on the diodes goes to the white line side of the PCB) this is clearly marked so you won't have any problems figuring out orientation.

Not much else I can say on the WNA diodes Jose, it's all explained in the manual along with part types.

All the best.

Mike.

CRD description here
1N4148 description here
 
Oct 4, 2005 at 6:22 PM Post #635 of 764
Hi, head-fiers.

Thank you very much for the info, Mike. However, when I registered in Rapid to order from them, I've seen that the minimum order for outside UK mainland shippings is GBP 500 (!!)
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I can't believe it. It's a huge amount that it is impossible to reach for an average DIY builder...

My first impressions of AD8610 aren't promising. It seems a dull and grey performer compared to LM6171 plus output caps... In your opinion (subjective, of course, but very valuable), which is the more alive/bright sounding op-amp for IC1 position? Any suggestions...? Where can I find AD8065 for cap-less use in WNA amp?

Regards,
Jose
 
Oct 4, 2005 at 8:47 PM Post #637 of 764
Quote:

Originally Posted by spendorspain
Hi, head-fiers.

Thank you very much for the info, Mike. However, when I registered in Rapid to order from them, I've seen that the minimum order for outside UK mainland shippings is GBP 500 (!!)
confused.gif
I can't believe it. It's a huge amount that it is impossible to reach for an average DIY builder...



How many do you need Jose? I'll get them for you from Rapid next time i'm ordering something and I'll ship them over to you no probs..... just let me know and we can get the ball rolling. Alternately WNA sells them and ships to Spain with no minimum order quantity. Catalogue here

Quote:

Originally Posted by spendorspain
My first impressions of AD8610 aren't promising. It seems a dull and grey performer compared to LM6171 plus output caps... In your opinion (subjective, of course, but very valuable), which is the more alive/bright sounding op-amp for IC1 position? Any suggestions...? Where can I find AD8065 for cap-less use in WNA amp?


Yeh, the 8610 is pretty lame compared with the LM6171 but the 8065 is a lot better. Register with Analogue Devices and order the AD8065AR as samples.. they'll send you some free of charge for evaluation.
 
Oct 18, 2005 at 5:30 PM Post #639 of 764
Vick,

I think he's sold his WNA and will build another later, once he's moved.

Just as I've got two AD8065 delivered the 8067 pops up
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Should I just throw them in the bin or try soldering such small chips
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When I get my self sorted out I'll get some of Dr White's adapters and have a bash at the smd soldering and see how the AD8065 sounds.

Are the 8067s much better or just a tad?

Steve
 
Oct 18, 2005 at 6:56 PM Post #640 of 764
I think Mike's too busy with his new toy.
wink.gif

Quote:

Should I just throw them in the bin or try soldering such small chips

When I get my self sorted out I'll get some of Dr White's adapters and have a bash at the smd soldering and see how the AD8065 sounds.


The SMD soldering isn't too bad. You just need a fine bit, a steady hand, some fine gauge solder (David supplies suitable silver solder with the adaptors) and some fine solder wick is a good idea just in case you overdo it. The WNA adaptors are very good and easy to work with. I'm still auditioning the 8065s, but thus far, I'm quite impressed.
 
Oct 18, 2005 at 9:33 PM Post #641 of 764
Quote:

Originally Posted by biovizier
How are you getting on with the ad8067 Pinkie? Had a chance to look at it? My inbox was full previously ... sorry about that.


Hi Nick,

I Pm'ed you but your box was full. I gave up on the 8067 as it kept oscillating and playing up so it's probably great for mobile phones and stuff but not ideal for a headphone amp... from what I could hear the AD8065 is a much better sounding device. What's your address Nick I'll get your 8067's back over to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieDvd
I think he's sold his WNA and will build another later, once he's moved.


Yeh, she's on her way to Australia (probably on a Jumbo Jet as I type) I think I'll wait and see if a MKlll comes out.... no point building one that's exactly the same again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieDvd
Just as I've got two AD8065 delivered the 8067 pops up
redface.gif
Should I just throw them in the bin or try soldering such small chips
icon10.gif



Stick with the 8065 man....... direct drop in, no fuss and sounds good into the bargain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alick
I think Mike's too busy with his new toy.
wink.gif



Busy? I'm having a whale of a time with this puppy Alick... your amp sure has landed on its feet and is enjoying all the attention I'm giving it!

Eargasms, spine tingles, goose bumps.... she delivers them all and in bucketloads and is responding favourably to each and every tweak! (what a powerhouse!!) Got a pair of Amperex Bugle Boys (and a few other goodies) on the way and am just enjoying every moment with the V2 Alick... no, I'm not giving it back so there!
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Oct 18, 2005 at 10:30 PM Post #643 of 764
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alick
You do realise it was just a loan?
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ummmmm...... I can "redo" everything apart from the two 20mm holes I cut out of the top of the enclosure
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Hope you like holes?
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Oct 28, 2005 at 7:59 PM Post #644 of 764
Hi, head-fiers

I have some comments about the AD8065 op-amp used as IC1 in WNA mkII headphone amplifier (the IC in the rail splitter is a LM6171). I’ve modify my amp with new wiring to make it very easy to change from the standard cap-coupled output to a direct output (see pictures)and I’ve extensively compared the “capless” AD8065 with the LM6171 (plus the C4 mandatory output cap).

When first heard through the AD8065 all recordings seem more detailed, dynamic, direct and alive, but extended hearing reveals some shortcomings. True, the AD8065 is more detailed (perhaps simply due to the absence of a big electrolytic cap in the signal path) but also a little “dry”, with the music perhaps too “in-my-face”. Normally it is not artificial or etched, but in some recordings this closer perspective is uncomfortable. The soundstage is a little flat, without the depth I think suits better to the classical music I listen to (I know that headphone listening “soundstage” is a controversial issue, but my Grado HP-2 are very spacious-sounding). Perhaps the AD8065 really needs crossfeed (I’m going to try the Linkwitz crossfeed circuit available in the net as soon as possible). The bass is extremely precise and taut, not loose at all, but this is again a disadvantage more often than not for classical, which need IMHO a more expansive and deeper, however less controlled, bass (the bass that a symphony orchestra produces in a big concert hall is deep and a little loose, very different I think to the rock, pop or jazz bass which has more punch).

The LM6171 is less detailed (but not much if the C4 output cap is bypassed with a good film type), and more forgiving. It is laid-back, rounder, a little more soft-sounding (a rose-tinted view, as Mike said), and more emotionally involving for me (I’m trying to be as objective as I can, but this is the word that comes to my mind for describing the LM6171 sound). Perhaps the use with other musical styles or headphones, or playing with other elements (adding crossfeed or using different cables), could lessen the AD8065 shortcomings, but at the moment I prefer the LM6171.

And now I have a couple of doubts I hope you can help to clarify. A very tempting experiment is to avoid the output cap C4 when LM6171 is used. I don’t understand how the “100k trimpot + 10M resistor” trick works, but searching in the old WNA MkI posts I’ve found this opinion of Dr White himself:
“As a couple of people have pointed out you can increase the value of the feedback resistors ( say X10 ) to fix the dc offset problem and guarantee unconditional stability, as others have done with the LM6171. The problem with doing this is that it slugs the bandwidth of the LM6171 and it doesn't sound so good. I've tried using a couple of resistors and a potentiometer to zero out the dc offset but its not very good because the offset drifts with temperature. The only satisfactory way to zero out the offset is by using another opamp as a servo. Unfortunately the effect of dc servos is even worse, sonically, than using coupling capacitors. So, inelegant though it is, it looks like the coupling capacitor on the output is the best all round compromise."
Do you think the “trimpot trick” does slug the LM6171 bandwith (perhaps the feature responsible of their very special sound)? When using the trimpot, is it mandatory to use the input cap C1? If so, the problem is that with LM6171 there is always a cap in signal path, in input side (with the trimpot) or in the output side (as standard), or even in both sides (worst-sounding but bullet-proof).

And, lastly, I have a doubt (or more precisely, a concern) about the AD8065. When I powered it for the first time, I heard a thump at turn-on (not too worrying, I thought). I left the amp on continuously for two weeks or so, burning-in, enjoying it and taking the listening notes I’ve posted above, but when I turned it off I heard a very, very loud thump that really scared me. Just for test it, I turned on and off the AD8065-WNA amp with output caps with the same result: a thump in both channels at turn-on and a much more loud thump at turn-off.
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Is this normal? With LM6171 these thumps are nearly inaudible. I was so afraid that, in fact, another time I wanted to hear to the AD8065-WNA amp I switched it on with the headphones disconnected (there are dummy resistors in its output socket) and I plugged them in 10 seconds later with no music playing. Is this dangerous for the amplifier?

Thank you for your help and best regards
Jose
 
Oct 29, 2005 at 8:35 AM Post #645 of 764
Quote:

Originally Posted by spendorspain
Attached Images
WNA_outputs.jpg (23.9 KB, 11 views)
WNAc_noOutCaps.jpg (19.7 KB, 8 views)



Jose please can you post the images again - I cannot open it.
 

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