[FritzS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieDvd I have some spare opamps from my Supermacro so I decided what the heck fit the same ones I have in that as a starter. The SM3 has SE5534 OBCA (opamps from On-Semi, the OBCA means they were put in class A using a resistor between 2 pins and using the bypass of pin 5 to pin 6). The best 5534 I had other than the ones fitted to the SM3 are the On-Semi SA5534, so fitted these and powered up the WNA. Well what can I say; these are my opamps of choice. The soundstage was very evidently improved and the spacing around the instruments seemed clearer and more distinct. I think the fatigue with the 228s was my poor brain trying to 'respace' the music to its expectations and the SA5534 supplies just what my ears/brain expects. I think the synergy is my brain and these 5534s. Sitting in the drawer are pairs of AD843, AD847, OP627, AD797, OPA604 & LT1115 and now the OPA228s I'm afraid. Steve

You will say - the old SA5534 sounds better than all others? But why upgrades some its older CD players or pre amps from SA5534/5532 to "more modern" OP's? I am confused!?

PS: Which manufacturers makes/offers 5534/5532 today?

This I found too about ....
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...52&postcount=1
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...8&postcount=17
http://www.onsemi.com/

 

[StevieDvd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FritzS You will say - the old SA5534 sounds better than all others? But why upgrades some its older CD players or pre amps from SA5534/5532 to "more modern" OP's? I am confused!? PS: Which manufacturers makes/offers 5534/5532 today? This I found too about .... http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...52&postcount=1 http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...8&postcount=17 http://www.onsemi.com/

You've quoted the manufacturer I use (onsemi) and asked the big question!

I think because the 5534 are cheap people think a newer more expensive opamp would naturally be better. It depends whether the manufacturers of broadcast equipment and CDs etc did actually fit the 5534/4432 for economy or some because the opamp was just right for that design. If there was a better amp that every manufacturer thought better the cost price would have fallen enough due to the volumes involved to make that a more standard default.

Since the 5534 is still produced it must be filling a market.

I can't say much about the technical details. I don't know why people use expensive opamps as rail splitters and cheaper one for the L/R channels. I have to rely on what I think suits me. If equipment was designed to suit my taste then a lot of people would probably complain about lack of bass or that the soundstage was too wide.

Perhaps on the manufacturers test scales of taste I'm in the middle and that's where the 5534 sits as well.

Steve

 

[StevieDvd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by biovizier Stevie - what do you think of the ad843 and ad847 in comparison?

As mike has stated with the current setup of the WNA I have to be careful with the DC offset.

However, in my portable SM3 I did try the 843/847 but I still prefer the 5534. We must have different preferences, the 843/747 are detailed but took a while to bed in but I missed the 5534 soundstage the most.

I've got a small head and a cramped soundstage does not have much room to fit in, so I need an opamp which sounds to be outside the headphones to feel comfortable.

Steve

 

[PinkFloyd]

On the subject of the NE5534 / NE5532 I know an amplifier designer / manufacturer who reckons It's the best opamp since sliced bread and, by far, sounds the best in his amplifiers. The reason he doesn't "utilise" the NE5534 opamp in his designs? Because they wouldn't sell... he would be deemed behind the times by joe public and slated for being a neanderthal who doesn't know how to build an amp even though most of the broadcast equipment and studio gear uses the NE5534.... probably every recording you own has gone through an NE5534 / 32 at some point.

It really amazes me some of this, people automatically (wrongly) assume that newer means "better" and the first thing they do when they buy a vintage CDP or amp that utilises an NE5534 / 32 is to replace it with something along the lines of an OPA627 just because Bill or Bob or Bert tells them that the 5534 is crap and is the first thing they need to change. I had the same mentality myself years ago.... just read the opening paragraph of this (the Under the bonnet bit) and look how I "automatically" assumed the NE5532 to be nothing "particularly stunning" what a plonker I was.... I must have listened to Bob or was it Bert? hmmmm... maybe it was Bill who told me what I should be listening to? The darned amp never sounded as good after the 5532 was removed even though I tried to convince myself it did!!! We're all guilty of following the pack at some time or another

That reminds me, I must update that bloomin awful site

It's a sorry state when an amp manufacturer (who's been at the business end of recording studio gear and amp designs for over 30 years) should have choose second best just to please the "knowalls" and to avoid public humiliation along the lines of "XYZ doesn't know what he's doing he uses an NE5534 in his amp, if I were him I'd have chosen an OPA627" etc.

Tragic.

More on the NE5534 / 32 here

A brief excerpt and, as always, this is an individual opinion and not written in stone:

"In audio work, the 5532 is pre-eminent. It really is something like the ideal opamp. Distortion is almost unmeasurably low, even when driving 600 Ohm loads. Noise is extremely low; in many applications discrete devices give no significant advantage. (The exceptions being very high and very low source impedances) I have tried several times to make a discrete/opamp hybrid preamplifier, for a moving-magnet RIAA input, that would be quieter than the simple 5532 version. Each time I have failed. This may of course just mean that I am unusually incompetent at electronics, but I think the true reason is simply that the 5532 is very hard to beat.
The 5532 is not, however, perfect. The biggest drawback is the high bias and offset currents at the inputs. This is an inevitable result of using a bipolar input stage (for low noise) without any sort of bias-cancellation circuitry. (If this was added it would compromise common-mode noise, and probably also introduce common-mode distortion, according to my conversations with IC makers) The 5532 was designed for audio work, and makes few concessions to DC accuracy.Having said that, it's not actually that bad. The offset voltage spec is 0.5 mV typ, 4 mV max, compared with 3 mV typ, 6 mV max for the popular TL072. On many occasions I have used 5532s to replace TL072s when offset voltage was a problem.

If bipolar-style bias currents cannot be accommodated, then there are plenty of FET-input opamps around. However, there is no obviously superior device that is the equivalent of the 5532. The TL072 was used for many years but its HF linearity is not first-class and distortion across the band deteriorates badly as output loading increases."

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by biovizier Stevie - what do you think of the ad843 and ad847 in comparison?

Nick and Steve.

Got a couple of SMD to Dip8 adaptors on the way from WNA and will be trying the 8065 again in the naked amp.

I don't know if you tried your AD847 without output caps but, if you did, then [size=medium]be aware [/size] that the DC offset will rise sharply as you turn the volume up and with low impedance 'phones this could be pretty nasty indeed. Same thing goes for the NE5534 (or any other non FET opamp) at minimum volco setting the offset will be low but as soon as you turn the volco up the DC will increase to unacceptable levels. Only use non FET opamps with output caps in position.

FET opamps, such as the AD8065 and OPA 627 etc. can be used without input or output caps. As always, check the offset at "all volume levels" to ensure the offset remains the same across the range and doesn't rise.

AD 847 rose from 3mV at zero volco setting to about 140mV (totally bad!!!) at the 2 o' clock position so please be careful.

Mike.

 

[PinkFloyd]

I came across this on Xin's site and It's "doable" with the WNA as long as you undo the opamp class A biasing mods in the WNA. Once the class A biasing mods have been undone you can plug and play the "7 legged" AD-744 and not have to worry about using in / out caps as the 744 is BiFET.... see how to do it here.

To undo the opamp biasing in the WNA both of the constant current diodes in each amp channel should be 3.5mA and both of the associated resistors should be 120R. In other words replace the 5.6mA constant current diode in each channel with a 3.5mA type and the 75R resistor in each channel with a 120R type. Essentially what the AD744 mod does is bypass the AD744 class B output stage and feeds the output of the AD744 voltage amplifier stage directly into the WNA BD139/BD140 class A output stage. Once the WNA opamp biasing is undone (reversed) you plug and play your 7 legged 744 and "bingo!" away you go.

Cheers to Xin for the 744 class A tweak and to Dr. White for the WNA opamp biasing reversal instructions.

I haven't tried this yet but thought I'd share so anyone who's interested can give it a go.

Mike.

 

[StevieDvd]

Mike,

Xin calls this output bypassing (OB)and it can be done on a few opamps (NE/SA/SE5534, AD744 & AD829) not sure of any others.

His definition of class A adapting (CA) on the SM3 is a simple resistor between pin 6 & 7 of the opamp.

It is also possible to combine the two OBCA using adapters he supplies. My SM3 is using SE5534 in both modes (OBCA).

Whether that affects what you have stated above I can't say but it's worth noting that only a few opamps can use the bypass option.

Steve

 

[12796]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd Did you not read Nick? if you put the AD-847 in a capless WNA the DC offset will rise sharply when you turn the volco up.... if you want 100mV or more going into your headphones then fitting an AD-847 without in / out caps is an easy way to achieve it.

The akg 340s are 600 ohm remember

Look forward to your findings with the capless ad8065.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by biovizier Look forward to your findings with the capless ad8065.

Been up in the highlands all day and when I got back there was a "tried to deliver a package" card inside the door.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by biovizier The akg 340s are 600 ohm remember

What's that got to do with the DC offset?

 

[12796]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd the DC offset will rise sharply as you turn the volume up and with low impedance 'phones this could be pretty nasty indeed.

So its not as bad with high impedance phones right? I am using fet opamps currently so it should be fine.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by biovizier So its not as bad with high impedance phones right? I am using fet opamps currently so it should be fine.

FET's are perfectly fine Nick and should measure almost zero DC. The 847 should not be used in a "nude" WNA..... just ask David and he'll explain the why and whens etc. They measure about 8mV @ minimum volco level but as soon as you increase the volume so increases the DC Offset and you honestly don't want a couple of hundred mV of DC going into your headphones.... next time you're on the phone to David get him to explain why this occurs, why you don't want it to occur and how to stop it from occuring (if you decide on the 847 that is)

I should manage to pick up the soic to dip adaptors tomorrow from the post office so will solder the 8065's on when I've got a spare moment...... I'm running a nude WNA with 843's again (there's something about them that just "gels" and suits my lug holes) but really look forward to trying the 8065's again but this time without input and output caps

 

[PinkFloyd]

Managed to pick the WNA [size=medium]s8d[/size] kit up from the post office today and £4 for the kit isn't at all bad considering it comes complete with 2 x SOIC to Dip8 PCBS, a fair old length (2 feet) of wondersolder and gold plated pins.

Even better is the fact the s8d adaptors pin outs come clearly marked so there will be no uncertainty when it comes to pin orientation. The gold plated pins have to be soldered to the PCB and don't rely on the usual "friction fit" of other adaptors I have tried so no oxidisation issues to worry about with the s8d..... good old fashioned soldered joints are the order of the day

Fit and finish is first class. I gave the pins a dry run and they slotted in beautifully, pity I didn't have time to solder the 8065's onto the s8d's today but will probably get around to it tomorrow evening.

WNA reckon It's best to solder the SOIC opamp onto the board first and then fit the gold pins.

Now...... where did I put that magnifying glass?

WNA s8d Kit in Bag

Contents revealed! 2 x SOIC to dip PCB's, wondersolder and gold pins

Close up of s8d kit

 

[PinkFloyd]

Biovizier...... your ears / taste must be very similar to my own. Soldered the 8065's onto the WNA s8d adaptor earlier on and they are absolutely 100% to my ears.

I was (am!) so impressed with their sound that I phoned David White and suggested he have a darned good listen to them.... they are "by far" streets ahead of the rest I've tried in the MKll (without caps) and the moment I hit play (Roger Waters "pros and cons of hitch hiking) I knew that the 8065 is here to stay... the detail, the texture and the clarity, the clarity, the clarity, the CLARITY! I never expected them to sound this good....... the last time I tried them was in a WNA MKl with in / out caps..... in a capless MKll these are unbeatable IMO and if there is a better sounding chip (WNA compatible) out there It'll have to be something pretty bloody spectactular to top the AD8065. I hate buzzwords and these people who constantly say "wow" but, on this occasion, I'll break my own rule and just say "[size=medium]wow[/size]!"

The bad news...... WNA cannot source the 8065 at the present time so anyone wanting to try them will either have to get them from the AD sample program or source them somewhere else. A real pity as the AD8065 works so well in the WNA MKll... it would be great if the kit came supplied along with the WNA s8d and AD-8065........ can't have your cake and eat it cest la vie

Oh well, there's not much more I want or need to do with my MKll now....... Looks like I'll be forced into enjoying the music and have to move on to some other project.

It's been fun rolling opamps and stuff and I've really enjoyed the musical roller coaster ride! A big thanks to David White of White Noise Audio and to all of you guys who have made this thread so enjoyable and informative.

I'm outta here to get down to some listening which, at the end of the day, is what it's all about

Mike.

A few snaps of the 8065 on the WNA s8d adaptors: (scuse the pics, bad light)

 

[l_simon_l]

Wow mike, this sounds exciting.

What mods are done to your WNA in addition to changing the opamp to AD8065 and getting rid of output and input caps?

Zobel Network? Removed lamps?

My WNA is currently all stock. Is the difference significant? If so, I just might have to make use of my soldering iron again

Edit: Oh... i can see what you did to the lamps in the picture

 

[12796]

Pinkie,

Let me present to you the REAL final opamp... the ad8067.

Its the ad8065 on steroids.

I may have a couple of spare pairs very soon as it wont work in the two riaa stages of the phono. Fancy a listen?

What are you using in the rail splitter? I am using the lm6171 but it would be interesting to try the ad8065 there too. I will be interested to see if you or david can tweak more out of the ad8065 as well.

Regards,

Nick.