[StevieDvd]

Jeez Geezers, it's not a "superchip" or some mysterious wonderchip It's the good old Burr Brown OPA228P.
[/QUOTE=PinkFloyd]

Superchip, we're pulling your leg Mike we were just eager to find out the mystery chip.

I've got it running in both my amp and Steviedvd's MKl amp at the moment with no output caps, no input caps or other **** in the signal path..... It's by far "my" favourite in the WNA but that doesn't necessarily mean a lot as ears are as unique as fingerprints and we all hear things differently... some may love it, some may like it and others may despise it but It sure is worth giving it a try.
[/QUOTE=PinkFloyd]
If as you mentioned before it's more spacious then it's likely to float my boat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd Listening to Steviedvd's "Barebones" 228 MKl WNA right now (after spending the afternoon and evening faffing about with it) and Frank Sinatra sounds like he's in the same room with me (dunno if that's good or bad!) I'll leave you to comment on it Steve and if it doesn't suit your ears then I'll retrofit the LM6171, input caps, trimpots, 10M resistors et al. You can also try the AD8065, OPA627 and many more chips Steve without the need for the signal strangling in / out caps.... They are direct drop in (plug and play) chips, try them all! Mike.

If I can opamp roll to try other amps then I'm techy enough for that, even the trimpot idea was freaking me out in case I blew up some headphones.

I've got some OPA627, AD843 & AD847 here as well as a few from my SM3 doing nothing (don't have the numbers of the others to hand) but I'll be pleased to give the 228 an extended tryout first.

BTW what was the problem with my WNA was it a blown component? I'll send a cheque to cover postage and parts etc but we can deal with that via PM.

Steve

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by biovizier its a 741! I had the temerity to suggest naim were poor VFM, linn make awful turntables and ATC can strip the paint off walls. Then I got abused by kiddies every time I posted - including the mods. Gave them a sound thrashing and got banned eventually. Mods then deleted all requests for my return. Nick.

Sounds to me like you hit the nail right on the head (or naim on the head) with with some of your comments. Some of those guys at PF are so far up their own arseholes that its impossible to voice a different opinion without being classed as an antichrist. At pink fish you're nobody unless you have a NAIM, probably one of the main reasons I use Head-Fi instead of their illiberal forum, at least you can voice your opinion here (on all things audio) without being tarred and feathered, birched or banned.....

This is totally off the WNA topic so I'll say no more but I'm sorry they treated you that way Nick, so much so that I won't be visiting PF anymore (no great loss to them as I think NAIM is a crock when it comes down to VFM too!)

Anways, back over to the WNA thread.....................

 

[12796]

thanks pinkie! yes I think a few people there have "purchase insecurity". One guy spent £9k on putting ELEVEN (!!!) mana platforms underneath his atc 100a's. He claimed it made the bass cleaner - nothing to do with the fact the bass driver was now 5 feet from the floor!

I am curious to see what you think of the ad8065 "nude" without caps. Does the opa228 share the burr brown house sound?

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by biovizier I am curious to see what you think of the ad8065 "nude" without caps.

I'm just off out to totally strip my MKll down to bare bones (remove trimpots / inputs caps etc.) and I'll sure give the 8065 another spin under the bonnet once I mount them on Bdogs, my last pair of mounted 8065's are long gone. 8065 sounded superb "with" in / out caps so I'd imagine they'll sound a heck of a lot better without...... will keep you up to speed for sure Nick I hope they suit my ears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by biovizier Does the opa228 share the burr brown house sound?

Funnily enough..... yes and no. I'd describe it as more of a hybrid AD / BB type of sound but you'd have to evaluate it yourself in order that it can describe itself your own original set of acoustic devices (your ears!)

It's a well known fact that no two sets of ears are the same, they are literally as individual and unique as fingerprints, so we all hear sounds slightly differently..... what I hear as mellow you may hear as harsh, so on and so forth. Much the same way as different rooms / furniture affect the acoustics so do different shapes of ears... ears are an "acoustic device" and if we all had the same shape of ear we would hear things the same but we don't which is why there are so many differing opinions on audio equipment.

There's no way I can say "XYZ sounds incredible go and listen to it you'll be amazed" I learnt that many years ago after reading rave reviews only to think "that guy must be deaf as a post" or "the company are giving him backhanders" after hearing the rave review gear with my own ears.......

By all means listen to the 228 Nick and if you like it then, great. Whatever you do, don't go with the "herd" and follow them over the edge of the cliff.... use your ears and go with what sounds best to you..... just because a chip is popular with the herd (ie: OPA627 is the best chip since sliced bread) doesn't mean a thing... FOTM, following people like sheep and conforming to the "group perception" of what's good has never been my approach.. I love the sound of the old NE5534 in certain applications and would probably branded a "nutter" or "behind the times" by certain "groups"..... who gives a damn, if it sounds good it "is" good.

So..... UYOE (use your own ears) and form your own conclusions and to hell with what the "group" thinks.

From here on in all I'll contribute to this thread is what chips work in the WNA and how you can optimise them.... that was basically what this thread was all about from the start "constructing the amp and tweaking it".........

Edit: Bad week, bad mood.... so much for "abstaining" doing you the world of good

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieDvd If as you mentioned before it's more spacious then it's likely to float my boat.

Look forward to your impressions captain.


Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieDvd BTW what was the problem with my WNA was it a blown component?

As discussed, cause unknown and nothing had failed..... pity I replaced nearly every component on the board before snipping the pot to ground wire as that rectified the "problem" instantly.... probably my fault for grounding the pot to the 0V track in the rail splitter section but the fact it worked fine for weeks and then went pear shaped all of a sudden has both myself and Dr. White scratching heads.... whatever it was, a simple "snip" was all that was required in the end.

What PSU do you use with it Steve? I was listening with one of those powerPak 24V switchers and then went over to my Calex PSU and what a difference! The MKl certainly does benefit from a beefier / quality PSU that's for sure, try and power her with something good if you can. I'm used to the calex and tried the little switcher with the MKll and "ouch"..... not nice, not nice at all

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieDvd I'll send a cheque to cover postage and parts etc but we can deal with that via PM.

You'll do nothing of the kind Steve. I put the amp together and, as I say, my grounding the pot to 0V in the rail splitter probably had something to do with the amp going all queer so I'll take the blame..... I actually (in a sadistic kind of way) enjoyed tearing what's left of my hair out yesterday (at one point I was wielding a hammer and actually smashed the **** out of an LM6171

) It was a good learning curve for me and also proved that I can work calmly under pressure. It also gave me the opportunity to test drive my new reading glasses (never worn glasses before) so I could actually see what I was doing

She'll be back with you shortly, so get ready to hoist your anchor!

Mike.

PS: Still haven't got round to removing the trimpots and input caps from my WNA but they will be out ASAP..... if your amp is anything to go by "barebones" sure is the way to go.... Just be sure to power her with something pretty decent, that little 24V / 550mA PowerPak switcher jobby is pretty dire compared even to the basic stontronics regulated wallwart which is not half bad (IIRC you have the stontronics regulated wallwart?) I used to think the PSU didn't make "that" much of a difference but in the MKl it certainly does without a doubt. These puppies are [size=medium]superb[/size] with the WNA, they require housing but it's well worth the effort. I use the 32024A and It's probably the best purchase I've made PSU wise........ bullet proof / stable as a rock and Made in England.

32024A housed in a blue Hammond

 

[StevieDvd]

You recall correctly, I do have the Stontronics wallwart around which I'll use over the switcher though I did not think it made a difference with the early WNA config. Perhaps the back to basics WNA does make the difference more noticeable.

Is it just me or are most people scared of making their first mains project. 240v over a 9v pp3 needs a little more care, though I've heard the pp3 can give you a nasty tongue burn

If the Calex is that easy to build I suppose I can give it a go, I'll just make sure the house insurance is up-to-date first.

Did you get the Calex direct from them or via someone like Rapid?

I'll make sure my boat is fitted with circuit breakers

Steve

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieDvd You recall correctly, I do have the Stontronics wallwart around which I'll use over the switcher though I did not think it made a difference with the early WNA config. Perhaps the back to basics WNA does make the difference more noticeable. Is it just me or are most people scared of making their first mains project. 240v over a 9v pp3 needs a little more care, though I've heard the pp3 can give you a nasty tongue burn If the Calex is that easy to build I suppose I can give it a go, I'll just make sure the house insurance is up-to-date first. Did you get the Calex direct from them or via someone like Rapid? I'll make sure my boat is fitted with circuit breakers Steve

Rapid used to stock them but no longer do, you can give calex a ring and they'll probably sell you one.... there's nothing to do apart from hardwire the 240V supply to the transformer (piece of cake) and the installation info sheet is a breeze to follow..... overload protection etc. is part and parcel of the PSU.... mine has been on 24/7 for over a year..... just have a look at the spec sheet, it's a good unit. More on it tomorrow, I'm knackered

I'll give you a loan of mine and see what you think Steve..... you'll see / hear what I mean.

Night.

Mike.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Get your HD-650's ready Steve, I'll probably manage to get the amp over to you via next day SD tomorrow.

I replaced the slightly thin L/H Phono socket with another one so your interconnect will now have a bit more grip on it.

Changed the headout socket, dimmed the LED (5K1), new transistors, removed all caps from the signal path, removed trimpots, AD744 now in rail splitter, OPA228 now in amp, 0.00mV DC on both channels, buffed up the aluminium fascia etc. etc.

Have a listen and let me know what you think of the 228 / 744 (be brutally honest) If you've got a spare 627 kicking about then try it in the rail splitter in place of the 744 (I prefer the 744 but the 627 adds a touch of warmth which you may / may not like) you can even try your 627's, 8065's etc. in the amp section (plug and play) but I'm interested in your opinions of the MKl with the 228's in situ.... feedback in this thread or in the MKl thread, whatever suits you best

Try her out with your best PSU, if you still have the mascot it will be fine with the 228's / 744

A couple of snaps of your cap free MKl:

Barebones

Without lid on and screws not tightened / aligned

Mike.

 

[12796]

http://www.sgheadphones.net/index.ph...er&f=12&t=2628

 

[StevieDvd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd Get your HD-650's ready Steve, I'll probably manage to get the amp over to you via next day SD tomorrow. ... Have a listen and let me know what you think of the 228 / 744 (be brutally honest) If you've got a spare 627 kicking about then try it in the rail splitter in place of the 744 (I prefer the 744 but the 627 adds a touch of warmth which you may / may not like) you can even try your 627's, 8065's etc. in the amp section (plug and play) but I'm interested in your opinions of the MKl with the 228's in situ.... feedback in this thread or in the MKl thread, whatever suits you best Try her out with your best PSU, if you still have the mascot it will be fine with the 228's / 744 ... Mike.

I'll keep it brief to avoid hijacking the thread.

I've emailed Calex re the psu parts (no reply yet) so will use the large Stontronics wallwart (Monarch psu was sold with an amp). I'll build a Calex based one unless it's almost as cheap to buy a good one, (Solo psu @ £150!).

I've got three 627s so I can change the rail splitter and tryout some opamp combinations. Now I'll be able to assess a pair of opamps in both my WNA and SM3 and try to nail down my personal preferences.

The clean up looks good and I can't wait to put the WNA back into it's vacant slot.

But of course the most important thing is a big Thank You for getting the WNA back in operation for me.

Regards Steve

PS YGPM

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by biovizier http://www.sgheadphones.net/index.ph...er&f=12&t=2628

It's all subjective (have a GOOD read of this), suck it and see and if it suits your ears it is good... there is no one opamp or musical device that will be right for everyone Nick..... There's an opamp / musical device to suit everyone, it's finding the right one for you that is the hard part of the journey.... not many people are willing to open their minds and experiment and some peoples opinions are cast in stone and they will never budge..... for them to accept new ideas means feeding their sub conscience with positive self talk etc. etc. there's a lot of psychology involved in all of this, believe me.

You'll NEVER get agreement across the board and no one opamp will be a panacea / cure all that will satisfy everybody there will always be debate and there's a lot more factors involved than just simply listening..... if you believe and tell yourself that XYZ opamp sounds best you have fed your sub-conscience with this belief and it makes sure you act on that belief (that's its job) anything contradictory to the information (self talk) you have fed your sub conscience creates panic / uncertainty / disbelief and argument...... ie: you lose your wallet, for example, and you say "I've lost my wallet" even though your wallet may be right in front of you you won't see it as your subconscience has been instructed that "I have lost my wallet" and it creates a scotoma so you won't find it because if you were to find it that would make you feel stupid as the last thing your sub conscience wants you to do is find it. When your wife says "there it is, right in front of you" your reaction is "who the hell put it there, it wasn't there a minute ago........ it "was" there all the time but your SC made sure you didn't notice it as you already instructed it with your self talk that you have lost it.


I could really go in to depth but to do so would take a long long long time and I'm so tired at the moment that I am almost hallucinating..... Try and read some of Lou Tice's articles on scotomas, self talk, flip back flip up, negative wizards etc. etc. It's superb stuff and puts everything in your life into perspective............ I've probably just waffled a load of meaningless drivel which is why I suggest you try and get hold of some of Lou's work. Whether it be audio, buying a new car, getting married, getting a new job Lou really opens your mind and he can help change your self talk, understand why we behave the way we do and you can apply it to any situation.

With regard to opamps my self talk is "every opamp in the world is good and one of them will suit a certain individuals requirements perfectly" If I were to hold any other belief then I couldn't possibly remain impartial and open minded to all opamps.

 

[StevieDvd]

The WNA had returned from its trip to Scotland after some TLC from Mike (Pinkfloyd) and had been fitted with an AD744 rail splitter and 2 OPA228 for L/R channels.

Having recently bought the Black-eyed Peas CD Monkey Business I tried that first as it was fresh in my mind, they certainly like the bass deep but it really got the old toes tapping.

Next CD was Master & Commander soundtrack as there are some incredible instrumental tracks with violin and cello that just seem to be so intense.

I tried a few other favourite tracks but I was finding the listening was getting a little fatiguing which was kind of odd as I'd not really experienced that on the WNA before. The bass was certainly present as the Black-eyed Peas illustrated and the detail on the Master & Commander tracks was also still present.

As Mike had suggested I put an OPA627 in the rail splitter but much of the same to report with that in place. Everthing was there but something was wrong, I hoped it was not just me.

I have some spare opamps from my Supermacro so I decided what the heck fit the same ones I have in that as a starter. The SM3 has SE5534 OBCA (opamps from On-Semi, the OBCA means they were put in class A using a resistor between 2 pins and using the bypass of pin 5 to pin 6). The best 5534 I had other than the ones fitted to the SM3 are the On-Semi SA5534, so fitted these and powered up the WNA.

Well what can I say; these are my opamps of choice. The soundstage was very evidently improved and the spacing around the instruments seemed clearer and more distinct. I think the fatigue with the 228s was my poor brain trying to 'respace' the music to its expectations and the SA5534 supplies just what my ears/brain expects.

I think the synergy is my brain and these 5534s. Sitting in the drawer are pairs of AD843, AD847, OP627, AD797, OPA604 & LT1115 and now the OPA228s I'm afraid.

Sorry Mike 228s are not for me

I think the opamp rolling is finished for a while as I've found my niche and I like it. Perhaps flavours of 5534 vary but to me the SM3 sound and now WNA sound are just about right.

Odd I may be but also content. I've got a Ray Samuels Hornet and a pair of Grado HF1 to come but next expenditure is on CD's.

I know some people can give better impressions of what they hear but I just listen to the music and don't over analyse it. It's basically better or worse when I opamp roll and I’ll try to stick now on the better.

Blimey a long post from me!

Steve

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieDvd The WNA had returned from its trip to Scotland after some TLC from Mike (Pinkfloyd) and had been fitted with an AD744 rail splitter and 2 OPA228 for L/R channels. Having recently bought the Black-eyed Peas CD Monkey Business I tried that first as it was fresh in my mind, they certainly like the bass deep but it really got the old toes tapping. Next CD was Master & Commander soundtrack as there are some incredible instrumental tracks with violin and cello that just seem to be so intense. I tried a few other favourite tracks but I was finding the listening was getting a little fatiguing which was kind of odd as I'd not really experienced that on the WNA before. The bass was certainly present as the Black-eyed Peas illustrated and the detail on the Master & Commander tracks was also still present. As Mike had suggested I put an OPA627 in the rail splitter but much of the same to report with that in place. Everthing was there but something was wrong, I hoped it was not just me. I have some spare opamps from my Supermacro so I decided what the heck fit the same ones I have in that as a starter. The SM3 has SE5534 OBCA (opamps from On-Semi, the OBCA means they were put in class A using a resistor between 2 pins and using the bypass of pin 5 to pin 6). The best 5534 I had other than the ones fitted to the SM3 are the On-Semi SA5534, so fitted these and powered up the WNA. Well what can I say; these are my opamps of choice. The soundstage was very evidently improved and the spacing around the instruments seemed clearer and more distinct. I think the fatigue with the 228s was my poor brain trying to 'respace' the music to its expectations and the SA5534 supplies just what my ears/brain expects. I think the synergy is my brain and these 5534s. Sitting in the drawer are pairs of AD843, AD847, OP627, AD797, OPA604 & LT1115 and now the OPA228s I'm afraid. Sorry Mike 228s are not for me I think the opamp rolling is finished for a while as I've found my niche and I like it. Perhaps flavours of 5534 vary but to me the SM3 sound and now WNA sound are just about right. Odd I may be but also content. I've got a Ray Samuels Hornet and a pair of Grado HF1 to come but next expenditure is on CD's. I know some people can give better impressions of what they hear but I just listen to the music and don't over analyse it. It's basically better or worse when I opamp roll and I’ll try to stick now on the better. Blimey a long post from me! Steve

And a very honest and well written post Steve, I'm glad you spotted the lemon...... you know what I mean

Just check the offset of the 5534 not only at zero volco level but also at all volco levels...... I listened to it today and, yes, superb sounding. Without input / output caps you'll find that the likes of the AD 847 will measure say 0.7mV at zero volco setting but more like 170mV at max setting.... this is "not" good and all will be explained tomorrow once I've had a good sleep.....

The good old 5534 is a cracker though and many manufacturers are frightened to use it, even though it sounds excellent, for fear of being classed as behind the times even though the majority of the equipment used in the recording studios uses the 5532 / 5534....... more on this tomorrow as well.

Mike.

 

[12796]

Stevie - what do you think of the ad843 and ad847 in comparison?

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by biovizier Stevie - what do you think of the ad843 and ad847 in comparison?

Did you not read Nick? if you put the AD-847 in a capless WNA the DC offset will rise sharply when you turn the volco up.... if you want 100mV or more going into your headphones then fitting an AD-847 without in / out caps is an easy way to achieve it.