New tube amp: the Cayin HA-1A MK2
Dec 13, 2019 at 9:38 AM Post #406 of 970
20191213_062500.jpg

Just got this amp 2 days ago, am absolutely loving it. This thing is criminally underrated, it's got the looks, the performance even on stock tubes is very nice, got some genalex gold lions coming as per recommendations from much earlier in this thread, driver tubes only for now (12AU7), but looking into Amperex Bugle Boy EL84's in the future. This is my first real tube amp, wanted to go big with tubes right out the gate, no floundering around with hybrids trying to get something out of them they cannot do, and I already purchased a SW51+, so whenever that gets here I'll have an OTL to compare the HA1A-MK2 with, as well as a few more sennheisers that really benefit from tubes.

Cayin made a brilliant amp here, and Monoprice didn't even come close to doing it justice in their clone. This thing was worth every penny. Anyone have more up to date recommendations as far as tubes go?
 
Dec 13, 2019 at 11:15 AM Post #407 of 970


Just got this amp 2 days ago, am absolutely loving it. This thing is criminally underrated, it's got the looks, the performance even on stock tubes is very nice, got some genalex gold lions coming as per recommendations from much earlier in this thread, driver tubes only for now (12AU7), but looking into Amperex Bugle Boy EL84's in the future. This is my first real tube amp, wanted to go big with tubes right out the gate, no floundering around with hybrids trying to get something out of them they cannot do, and I already purchased a SW51+, so whenever that gets here I'll have an OTL to compare the HA1A-MK2 with, as well as a few more sennheisers that really benefit from tubes.

Cayin made a brilliant amp here, and Monoprice didn't even come close to doing it justice in their clone. This thing was worth every penny. Anyone have more up to date recommendations as far as tubes go?

Bugle Boy EL84 - both D getter and O getter variants sound great. Very balanced bass,w without getting muddy.

NOS Mullard EL84 nice too, heaviest hitting bass but can be a bit too much if your driver tube is also warm.

12au7 - Telefunken long smooth plate, Mullard long smooth plate square getter, RCA/Baldwin.

I personally don't care much for the Tung Sol 12DT5. Have tried Sylvania and RCA rectifiers, my fav is the RCA 12DT5. Smoother overall tone than the supplied NOS Tung sol.

My 1 cent :wink:
 
Dec 13, 2019 at 3:19 PM Post #408 of 970
I agree that the HA-1A is a very good amp, especially with planars. It is however somewhat noisy on low impedance phones like Grado and Denon. No noise on planars and higher impedance phones.

I disagree with the statement that the Monoprice tube amp doesn't come close to the HA-1A. I received the Monoprice 3 weeks ago and after switching to 6N3P-DR driver tubes and a Toshiba 6080 output tube I have been very happy with it. Totally silent even driving 32-ohm Grados and the 6080 output tube gives a very full and musical sound. The Monoprice amp is a bargain at the current price of $249.99. And if you buy it and don't like it you can return it for full credit.
 
Dec 13, 2019 at 6:01 PM Post #409 of 970
I agree that the HA-1A is a very good amp, especially with planars. It is however somewhat noisy on low impedance phones like Grado and Denon. No noise on planars and higher impedance phones.

I disagree with the statement that the Monoprice tube amp doesn't come close to the HA-1A. I received the Monoprice 3 weeks ago and after switching to 6N3P-DR driver tubes and a Toshiba 6080 output tube I have been very happy with it. Totally silent even driving 32-ohm Grados and the 6080 output tube gives a very full and musical sound. The Monoprice amp is a bargain at the current price of $249.99. And if you buy it and don't like it you can return it for full credit.
Was speaking on looks. The monoprice is pretty rough looking, the cayin is a work of art.
 
Dec 13, 2019 at 6:07 PM Post #410 of 970
Bugle Boy EL84 - both D getter and O getter variants sound great. Very balanced bass,w without getting muddy.

NOS Mullard EL84 nice too, heaviest hitting bass but can be a bit too much if your driver tube is also warm.

12au7 - Telefunken long smooth plate, Mullard long smooth plate square getter, RCA/Baldwin.

I personally don't care much for the Tung Sol 12DT5. Have tried Sylvania and RCA rectifiers, my fav is the RCA 12DT5. Smoother overall tone than the supplied NOS Tung sol.

My 1 cent :wink:
Thanks, I'll check these out
 
Dec 13, 2019 at 6:52 PM Post #411 of 970
The Monoprice looks better in person than in the ads. It is a big black box but the front panel is nicely done and has a taper on either side that really improves the looks. Considering the price difference between the Cayin and Monoprice I am very satisfied with the looks and the performance. I almost wonder if Cayin manufactures the Monoprice as they do have some things in common, specifically the adjustable output impedance and the overall look.
 
Dec 13, 2019 at 11:12 PM Post #412 of 970
The Monoprice looks better in person than in the ads. It is a big black box but the front panel is nicely done and has a taper on either side that really improves the looks. Considering the price difference between the Cayin and Monoprice I am very satisfied with the looks and the performance. I almost wonder if Cayin manufactures the Monoprice as they do have some things in common, specifically the adjustable output impedance and the overall look.
I originally planned on purchasing both, auditioning and returning one. But after receiving the Cayin I became ok with the price, and decided to keep it, lol.
 
Dec 14, 2019 at 2:46 PM Post #413 of 970
I originally planned on purchasing both, auditioning and returning one. But after receiving the Cayin I became ok with the price, and decided to keep it, lol.

The Cayin reportedly improves greatly with better tubes, so fun times ahead.
I do see some generic coupling caps below the tubes, likely generic polypropylene caps which is expected at this price point, so I would expect significant improvements in SQ with simple coupling cap upgrade.
Miflex copper foil or Jupiter copper foil would sound mighty nice in there...

CayinInside.jpg
 
Dec 14, 2019 at 3:47 PM Post #414 of 970
I agree that the HA-1A is a very good amp, especially with planars. It is however somewhat noisy on low impedance phones like Grado and Denon. No noise on planars and higher impedance phones.

I disagree with the statement that the Monoprice tube amp doesn't come close to the HA-1A. I received the Monoprice 3 weeks ago and after switching to 6N3P-DR driver tubes and a Toshiba 6080 output tube I have been very happy with it. Totally silent even driving 32-ohm Grados and the 6080 output tube gives a very full and musical sound. The Monoprice amp is a bargain at the current price of $249.99. And if you buy it and don't like it you can return it for full credit.
You find the amp noisy with Grados? I have 60i and find it to be very quiet, although I have some tubes that are indeed very noisy...
I found tube rolling affected the Cayin greatly and then there is the noise of the tubes too like western electric 12au7 sound very linear with great treble sparked but are quite noisy so I don’t use them
 
Dec 14, 2019 at 3:51 PM Post #415 of 970
I agree that the HA-1A is a very good amp, especially with planars. It is however somewhat noisy on low impedance phones like Grado and Denon. No noise on planars and higher impedance phones.

I disagree with the statement that the Monoprice tube amp doesn't come close to the HA-1A. I received the Monoprice 3 weeks ago and after switching to 6N3P-DR driver tubes and a Toshiba 6080 output tube I have been very happy with it. Totally silent even driving 32-ohm Grados and the 6080 output tube gives a very full and musical sound. The Monoprice amp is a bargain at the current price of $249.99. And if you buy it and don't like it you can return it for full credit.
The noise could be coming from your source too. I had that problem and switched sources and it went away.
 
Dec 16, 2019 at 12:48 AM Post #416 of 970
The Cayin reportedly improves greatly with better tubes, so fun times ahead.
I do see some generic coupling caps below the tubes, likely generic polypropylene caps which is expected at this price point, so I would expect significant improvements in SQ with simple coupling cap upgrade.
Miflex copper foil or Jupiter copper foil would sound mighty nice in there...

I will have to look into this, I'm very new to tubes, purchased a SW51+, but it is not here yet, and then this. I wanted to dive in deep with real amps, not dip my toe in with hybrids (don't get it twisted, I like hybrids, they're just not the same as something like this). So I am quite unfamiliar with this, however I will do some research, I'm always down for tinkering and making crap better using a soldering iron :beerchug:
 
Dec 16, 2019 at 1:06 AM Post #417 of 970
I agree that the HA-1A is a very good amp, especially with planars. It is however somewhat noisy on low impedance phones like Grado and Denon. No noise on planars and higher impedance phones.

OK so obviously I cannot speak for your experience, however I might have an idea of what you're talking about, and I too blamed the amp....at first....

I was getting a lot of noise the first 2 days of owning this amp, it wasn't like it was malfunctioning, it was just slightly more than I'd expect, and I also realized there can be a whole lot of vibration pick up through the tubes, which is fine. However it wasn't until I started up a game(on my PC) while listening to some music (from my PC) and I was stunned to find out I could basically hear my GPU's power draw through my headphones. Direct correlation to the fps on screen, to the sound, turned out to be a ground loop, and it seems to have been solved by bringing an extension cord and changing outlets. That solved I also realized my RCA cable was picking up noise, and had to move some things that were along the path, however that too is pretty much solved. I also re-seated the stock tubes, and that helped as well to where the noise was only audible when impedance was set to 300+, or volume very loud. I don't know how sensitive Blon BL03's are, but they were pretty quiet (not set to 300 ohms though, obviously).

Not to say you don't know a ground loop from amp noise, but there are a LOT of things that can cause noise from this amp that I've realized in a very short time, and stock tubes have a fair amount of noise, considering, but a tube swap has brought this amp to THX amp levels of silence. It's really stunning to me, but for sure the amp itself has a very low noise floor, but it's sensitive to a lot of things, what's weird though is this amp caught the ground loop, but switching to my thx 887 from same dac (just from xlr outs), and I hear silence. The dac filtering for xlr but not unbal out? Odd... Or the ha1a-mk2 was the thing causing the ground loop specifically and therefore only heard when using it. I don't know, i'm not well versed in electrical engineering so it's all confusing to me.



Another slightly related thing to share......

I upgraded the driver tubes. Genalex Gold Lion ECC82 (12AU7). First off, the noise? gone, completely silent, even if set to 600 ohm OI, only when the volume is set past 12, does noise begin to appear, and only barely. I was shocked by what swapping 2 tubes did to the noise floor, it wasn't even very loud to begin with, but man.... The sound of them also significant change to the stock tubes, but this isn't about that.... Upon installing the new tubes, I found the right channel wasn't working, at all. Dead silent, even though both tubes were clearly seated fully, and warm. I re-seated the right tube and the right channel had sound again, however along with it, came noise. A lot of it, volume having no effect on it, unplugging the inputs as well. Clearly the tube was doing it, in addition this specific tube had massive vibration pick up, and is making a sound that is like a wave, growing in volume. Like an ocean wave kinda sound, someone told me that it's called tube rush, and I'm wondering what to do about it. The other tube in the matched pair I got works brilliantly, dead silent, no vibration pick up even, but this other one scares me with the noises it decides to make randomly, as in, it will be working great, no noise, no vibration pick up even, then out of nowhere it'll hit the right channel so loud with noise it scares you. Did I get a defective tube? Should I hit up the seller (was an amazon purchase) or is there some way of dealing with this. I quite like these new tubes, the sound is very nice, and the lack of noise (when working right) sounds on par with THX amp silence, truly impressive, but having one tube acting this way isn't good...
 
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Dec 16, 2019 at 2:43 PM Post #418 of 970
OK so obviously I cannot speak for your experience, however I might have an idea of what you're talking about, and I too blamed the amp....at first....

I was getting a lot of noise the first 2 days of owning this amp, it wasn't like it was malfunctioning, it was just slightly more than I'd expect, and I also realized there can be a whole lot of vibration pick up through the tubes, which is fine. However it wasn't until I started up a game(on my PC) while listening to some music (from my PC) and I was stunned to find out I could basically hear my GPU's power draw through my headphones. Direct correlation to the fps on screen, to the sound, turned out to be a ground loop, and it seems to have been solved by bringing an extension cord and changing outlets. That solved I also realized my RCA cable was picking up noise, and had to move some things that were along the path, however that too is pretty much solved. I also re-seated the stock tubes, and that helped as well to where the noise was only audible when impedance was set to 300+, or volume very loud. I don't know how sensitive Blon BL03's are, but they were pretty quiet (not set to 300 ohms though, obviously).

Not to say you don't know a ground loop from amp noise, but there are a LOT of things that can cause noise from this amp that I've realized in a very short time, and stock tubes have a fair amount of noise, considering, but a tube swap has brought this amp to THX amp levels of silence. It's really stunning to me, but for sure the amp itself has a very low noise floor, but it's sensitive to a lot of things, what's weird though is this amp caught the ground loop, but switching to my thx 887 from same dac (just from xlr outs), and I hear silence. The dac filtering for xlr but not unbal out? Odd... Or the ha1a-mk2 was the thing causing the ground loop specifically and therefore only heard when using it. I don't know, i'm not well versed in electrical engineering so it's all confusing to me.



Another slightly related thing to share......

I upgraded the driver tubes. Genalex Gold Lion ECC82 (12AU7). First off, the noise? gone, completely silent, even if set to 600 ohm OI, only when the volume is set past 12, does noise begin to appear, and only barely. I was shocked by what swapping 2 tubes did to the noise floor, it wasn't even very loud to begin with, but man.... The sound of them also significant change to the stock tubes, but this isn't about that.... Upon installing the new tubes, I found the right channel wasn't working, at all. Dead silent, even though both tubes were clearly seated fully, and warm. I re-seated the right tube and the right channel had sound again, however along with it, came noise. A lot of it, volume having no effect on it, unplugging the inputs as well. Clearly the tube was doing it, in addition this specific tube had massive vibration pick up, and is making a sound that is like a wave, growing in volume. Like an ocean wave kinda sound, someone told me that it's called tube rush, and I'm wondering what to do about it. The other tube in the matched pair I got works brilliantly, dead silent, no vibration pick up even, but this other one scares me with the noises it decides to make randomly, as in, it will be working great, no noise, no vibration pick up even, then out of nowhere it'll hit the right channel so loud with noise it scares you. Did I get a defective tube? Should I hit up the seller (was an amazon purchase) or is there some way of dealing with this. I quite like these new tubes, the sound is very nice, and the lack of noise (when working right) sounds on par with THX amp silence, truly impressive, but having one tube acting this way isn't good...
Are the pins on the bad tube very dirty?
It could also be especially sensitive to your wifi or cellphone signal, you can try moving your router or phone further from the amp.
The most issue I’ve had was a tubes that picked up wifi signals and I would get fairly loud radio static sounds randomly.
But you can reach out to the seller and ask what they think, I don’t know about amazon but when I buy tubes the sellers are very helpful and normally have a warranty in case the tubes get damaged in transit
 
Dec 17, 2019 at 11:19 PM Post #419 of 970
I assume you tried switching the Gold Lion tubes from left to right channel of amp and also try the stock tubes again to make sure it's that one tube?
If that's the case, the seller will take it back and exchange it for you. This sort of thing happens all the time with new tubes. Usually, if a tube is not DOA and survives a week or so, it's good from then on.
I recently received some new Gold Lion 12AU7's, and it's a terrific sounding tube, especially for new production. I would certainly seek a replacement (or matched pair replacement).
 
Dec 19, 2019 at 11:59 AM Post #420 of 970
OK so obviously I cannot speak for your experience, however I might have an idea of what you're talking about, and I too blamed the amp....at first....

I was getting a lot of noise the first 2 days of owning this amp, it wasn't like it was malfunctioning, it was just slightly more than I'd expect, and I also realized there can be a whole lot of vibration pick up through the tubes, which is fine. However it wasn't until I started up a game(on my PC) while listening to some music (from my PC) and I was stunned to find out I could basically hear my GPU's power draw through my headphones. Direct correlation to the fps on screen, to the sound, turned out to be a ground loop, and it seems to have been solved by bringing an extension cord and changing outlets. That solved I also realized my RCA cable was picking up noise, and had to move some things that were along the path, however that too is pretty much solved. I also re-seated the stock tubes, and that helped as well to where the noise was only audible when impedance was set to 300+, or volume very loud. I don't know how sensitive Blon BL03's are, but they were pretty quiet (not set to 300 ohms though, obviously).

Not to say you don't know a ground loop from amp noise, but there are a LOT of things that can cause noise from this amp that I've realized in a very short time, and stock tubes have a fair amount of noise, considering, but a tube swap has brought this amp to THX amp levels of silence. It's really stunning to me, but for sure the amp itself has a very low noise floor, but it's sensitive to a lot of things, what's weird though is this amp caught the ground loop, but switching to my thx 887 from same dac (just from xlr outs), and I hear silence. The dac filtering for xlr but not unbal out? Odd... Or the ha1a-mk2 was the thing causing the ground loop specifically and therefore only heard when using it. I don't know, i'm not well versed in electrical engineering so it's all confusing to me.



Another slightly related thing to share......

I upgraded the driver tubes. Genalex Gold Lion ECC82 (12AU7). First off, the noise? gone, completely silent, even if set to 600 ohm OI, only when the volume is set past 12, does noise begin to appear, and only barely. I was shocked by what swapping 2 tubes did to the noise floor, it wasn't even very loud to begin with, but man.... The sound of them also significant change to the stock tubes, but this isn't about that.... Upon installing the new tubes, I found the right channel wasn't working, at all. Dead silent, even though both tubes were clearly seated fully, and warm. I re-seated the right tube and the right channel had sound again, however along with it, came noise. A lot of it, volume having no effect on it, unplugging the inputs as well. Clearly the tube was doing it, in addition this specific tube had massive vibration pick up, and is making a sound that is like a wave, growing in volume. Like an ocean wave kinda sound, someone told me that it's called tube rush, and I'm wondering what to do about it. The other tube in the matched pair I got works brilliantly, dead silent, no vibration pick up even, but this other one scares me with the noises it decides to make randomly, as in, it will be working great, no noise, no vibration pick up even, then out of nowhere it'll hit the right channel so loud with noise it scares you. Did I get a defective tube? Should I hit up the seller (was an amazon purchase) or is there some way of dealing with this. I quite like these new tubes, the sound is very nice, and the lack of noise (when working right) sounds on par with THX amp silence, truly impressive, but having one tube acting this way isn't good...

Your sharing on tackling the noise of HA-1Amk2 is excellent. I hope all my customers will spend more attention to the ground loop and interference issue before they give up on their tube headphone amplifier. The source of interference are indeed full of surprised, you have encountered interference from GPU utilisation? Some time ago an user reported that his interference was coming from the backlight of his keyboard, once h e disconnected the keyboard, the system go silent immediately.

There is another trick that we commonly use to verify interference. Unplugging all cable and only connect one source to the HA1Amk2 with on pair of interconnect, this close reduce the open loop possibility which almost only happens to tube amplifiers but not SS amp.
 
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