New Schiit! Ragnarok and Yggdrasil

[Yoga]

  I don't think so Joeezp. Yggy is on the same league as Hugo so MSB still better than both but by small margin .

 

[ciphercomplete]

  Yes I even heard many people said that hugo is better than MSB but in reality it's not . I tested both of them : MSB is step up above both Yggy and Hugo .

 
Which really just means pick the one you like the best.

 

[DACLadder]

   
Sorry to hear about the USB troubles.  Its a shame because I prefer the Yggy's built in USB to the CIaudio transient and I think you would probably prefer it to the Offramp.  Aside from the usb issues, your assessment of the two DACS mirrors my own at this point. The Master 7 seems to have more sort of propulsive bass but I chalk that up to it being a much more forward sounding dac.  Both have wide soundstages but the Yggy has a much deeper soundstage.  On direct comparison the Yggy exposes some unnatural roughness in the Master 7 vocals.  Both DACS are extremely good so this is all relative of course.    

HI Cipher!  Long time no see!   I am working up a game plan on USB.  I am sure it is my setup.  I have a Wyrd USB decrapifier and, JCAT USB with the CIAudio 5V supply to try.  I'll tackle it this coming weekend as I have to open the PC case to strap power on the JCAT board.
 
Bingo!  You are hearing exactly what I am experiencing with the Master 7.   Compared to the Yggy the Master 7 has a wide soundstage but it is not very deep.  And yes the Master 7 vocals can be edgier and with slightly more hissy sibilance.   And even with a few hours I can hear more in the mix with the Yggy and that is helping the depth realization.   Helping the depth also is the vocals on the Master 7 can be recessed in comparison.  The Yggy seems like it though leaner sounding but definitely more nimble with better finesse.  The Master 7 is big and bold in the bass to lower midrange region which adds nice body to electric guitars, pianos, etc.  I would like some of that in the Yggy.  But I do like what I am hearing in the Yggy at the 11 hr.mark.
 
I really like the Off Ramp 5 HDMI I2S into the Master 7 but didn't think much of its coax S/PDIF connection at the time.  So anxious to try USB.  One thing with the OR5 S/PDIF connection is I can't jump tracks with differing sampling rates and get a clean start on the next track.  The Yggy mute relay kicks in for 1/2 sec. and chops off the beginning of the track.  If the next track has the same sampling rate then no problem.

 

[prot]

Folks,

As I have previously opined, I believe in the value of burning in any D/A converter I have ever designed, especially multibit ones.  Elsewhere I have described physical changes that occur in passive components, which are part and parcel delta-sigma as well as multibit DACs.  In addition, there are temperature dependent linearity errors primarily proper to multibit DACs in particular.

I can testify that I have heard differences in D/A converter products as they warm-up (that is, without signal).  These differences seem to minimize as time accumulates on them.

It has never occurred to me to break-in (with signal present) any purely electronic audio device.  However, it makes total sense to me and I practice the break-in of transducers (speakers, headphones, microphones, and cartridges).  I also hear clear differences in those devices as they break-in.

Perhaps other readers may share any benefit due to the break-in of pure electronic devices.  I have no experience in such experiments and therefore have no opinions or findings to share.  Any comment on my part on such practice would be pure speculation.

Many thanks for the fast answer.
I for one am very happy with it, particularly because that is pretty much the consensus in the audio pro and science circles and what I would expect from a serious manufacturer.

Sorry again for the unnecessary thread ruckus ... and let the Iggy burning and warming spiel continue

 

[subtle]

  For all you potential tweakers out there (the one of two of you....he he).  I just got a phone call from someone who is using 2 Gungnirs in a quad amped system......I told him to bypass the fuse with copper foil (wrap copper foil around the fuse and re-insert) and snip right at the bottom the lead to the LED on the input he was using.  He is using this Gungnir on his midrange......he says the sound is "much cleaner, much more open and airy"  and now is going to do the mod on his tweeter Gungnir. I am sure the same difference would happened in the Yggy.  For those who think this is dangerous then just get an audiophile fuse......but stock fuses are seriously bad.  And LEDs distort the sound.  Tweaky deaky, over and out.

 
And here I was thinking when I quoted this guy's 2nd post in 12 years that he was completely joking.  I guess the joke is on me.

 

[subtle]

  Yggy is on the same league as Hugo

 
This is so hilarious it's practically sig-worthy.

 

[Defiant00]

  Yes I even heard many people said that hugo is better than MSB but in reality it's not . I tested both of them : MSB is step up above both Yggy and Hugo .

 
Did you get to hear them all at a meet, or do you already have a Yggy? Also, any idea how long the Yggy had been on when you listened?

 

[7ryder]

Thanks for the effort but there is no answer in those links. The first two are very generic 'some people say' statements ... some of us pefer sound science and controlled tests to ears.. or, at the very least, we wanna 'hear' that side too. And the third link, while it contains some good tech tips about components who need warm-up, it is somewhat unclear about burn-in ... also contains nothing that would explain the presumed 5 days warmup.

Not sure what you guys think you "know" but pls stop reposting those links cause that's not what was asked.

Prot, why don't you do us all a favor and when you finally have something knowledgeable to say, go post it on some other forum and in the meantime, stop posting on HF?
 
You're rude to a lot of people on this thread and elsewhere and you really don't know much about anything, yet you have an opinion on everything...like telling people how they should do burn-in after telling everyone you don't believe in burn-in.
 
Just because you don't like Mike's answers about his definition of burn-in, doesn't mean the answer isn't there.
 
Here's a very educational post from Baldr...and while this may not have been directed at you originally, I do think you should take it to heart 
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/667711/new-schiit-ragnarok-and-yggdrasil/4920#post_11393597

 

[prot]

Prot, why don't you do us all a favor and when you finally have something knowledgeable to say, go post it on some other forum and in the meantime, stop posting on HF?

You're rude to a lot of people on this thread and elsewhere and you really don't know much about anything, yet you have an opinion on everything...like telling people how they should do burn-in after telling everyone you don't believe in burn-in.

Just because you don't like Mike's answers about his definition of burn-in, doesn't mean the answer isn't there.

Here's a very educational post from Baldr...and while this may not have been directed at you originally, I do think you should take it to heart 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/667711/new-schiit-ragnarok-and-yggdrasil/4920#post_11393597

... and a very good day to you too, sir ... hope you had a much better sleep than your answer would suggest.

 

[Pier Paolo]

I believe in dac burn-in  (with signal) and I can easily hear the differences.
 
Also I believe in dac Warm-up and I do and I can hear improvement in music when my dacs reach the working temperature.
 
So, to me, is easily accettable that also Yggy need an initial burn-in and also it need warm-up.
 
Electronics components are very little ad they reach the correct temperature quickly, so i really can't understand why Yggy need 160 or more hours to reach its thermal stability. I think that, after the first burn-in, it should reach the correct state, when turned on, in15-30 minutes (as the Gungnir does).
 
Shiit is a very serious company and their products are ever "no B***S***", so "I want to believe", but this time, simply, I can't.
 
Please explain us why Yggy need all this time powered on to work well and 30 minutes are not sufficent, please.

 

[jacal01]

  Two things to address: 1) Polarity and its Inversions  2) Warm-Up vs. Burn-In and the Yggy  (a question addressed to @baldr himself)
 
1) Polarity
 
Thank you, Mr. Moffat, for that magic button on the left. What this provides is a quick and easy means for comparison, something my software of choice does not afford.
I've been using it a lot lately, and count me surprised. The number of rebook recordings which benefit from this astound. Upthread I said the following:
 
 
I was wrong on both counts: headphones do matter, and I've since performed plenty of OCD auditioning.  
 
The difference can be subtle, but with certain recordings boy can it make a difference. With speakers the change is more apparent, I suspect due to the soundstage shifts that inversion can bring. But even with headphones the change to the sounds – specifically certain attacks – is sometimes shocking on some recordings. By inverting polarity a hi-hat can sound like a completely different instrument!
 
Count me corrected and educated and happy. Thank you, Yggy. Thank you, absolute polarity button. Thank you, Schiit.
 
 
2) Warm-Up vs. Burn-In
 
Mr. Moffat, I humbly request your opinion on this subject. First, my own bias: to me, burn-in represents a potential example of 'snake oil' prescription/ritual/behavior within the audio industry and community. There seems no better way to get someone 'used to' the sound of their brand new high-end purchase than telling them they need to listen to it for days on end before their own opinion can be trusted. I mean, what are we really burning-in: the equipment itself or the grey matter between our ears?
 
Moreover, Schiit presents itself as a company more than happy to skewer industry superstitions and dispel audio's sacred cows. As I'm sure you know, this attitude endears you to many a geeky audiophile, myself included.
 
So with that, I ask you to weigh-in on the matter of warm-up, burn-in, the distinction between the two, and how they – in your expert opinion – impact the Yggdrasil.
 
Do you recommend playing audio continuously upon first power-up of the Yggy? If so, for how long? If not, over what duration of powered-on state have you noticed the greatest shift in the Yggy's sound? Measured by your ears or by instruments?
 
For my own part I freely admit that I noticed a significant difference – and major improvement – in the Yggy's sound after two days of continuous power. Not signal, not operation, just power. Although, to be clear, the Yggy was locked-on to the USB input with its sample rate lights illuminated.
 
Thank you, in advance, for your answers!
 
D

 
In defense of dglow, this thermal equilibrium requirement should probably be turned into a FAQ on the Schiit Yggy website.  Remember that Mike's R2R ADC 'GAIN' system that he built for MFSL had active temperature control.

 

[agooh]

I will get my unite soon but in the meeting it didn't wow me but still sound very good maybe I need quiet environment . maybe because I have one of the best dac that seem unfair test so let's set and wait . fanboys just calm down . I'm trying to help here .

 

[lojay]

I will get my unite soon but in the meeting it didn't wow me but still sound very good maybe I need quiet environment . maybe because I have one of the best dac that seem unfair test so let's set and wait . fanboys just calm down . I'm trying to help here .

Ooh. What is the exact model of the DAC you have that you will be comparing with the Yggy? MSB Select? Looking forward to your impressions (do give the Yggy 160 hours warm up).

 

[Pirakaphile]

I believe in dac burn-in  (with signal) and I can easily hear the differences.

Also I believe in dac Warm-up and I do and I can hear improvement in music when my dacs reach the working temperature.

So, to me, is easily accettable that also Yggy need an initial burn-in and also it need warm-up.

Electronics components are very little ad they reach the correct temperature quickly, so i really can't understand why Yggy need 160 or more hours to reach its thermal stability. I think that, after the first burn-in, it should reach the correct state, when turned on, in15-30 minutes (as the Gungnir does).

Shiit is a very serious company and their products are ever "no B***S***", so "I want to believe", but this time, simply, I can't.

Please explain us why Yggy need all this time powered on to work well and 30 minutes are not sufficent, please.

Time for your brain to burn in? Or something with the crazy picky DAC chips? Either way, why don't you just listen to it and hear the difference yourself? Sounds like everyone else is enjoying their music without the need for excessive mathematics and BS.

 

[StefanJK]

  I will get my unite soon but in the meeting it didn't wow me but still sound very good maybe I need quiet environment . maybe because I have one of the best dac that seem unfair test so let's set and wait . fanboys just calm down . I'm trying to help here .

No problem...just trying to access how much listening time you have on Yggy and on what system.  I'm not posting anything yet --- and I have no context at all to compare Yggy to in any case.   Clearly better than Gungnir by a lot (that's not a difficult call, can't understand how anybody could not hear that), but that's not a surprise.   So I'm happy so far...main frustration is that I can't get the Win 7 driver to install, probably due to a failure to have the old Schiit driver to uninstall cleanly.  Tried lots of things (including unstalling all usb drivers and messing with files in the driver store, and messing with automatic driver install settings, may end up with a fresh Win 7 install (which is pretty typical for me every three years or so...).