[NinjaHamster]

Let's face it ... the world ended LONG ago ... we just haven't caught up yet ...

 

[kothganesh]

  Let's face it ... the world ended LONG ago ... we just haven't caught up yet ...

Ah ! (slapping the forehead),,,the Y2K problem.

 

[NinjaHamster]

  Ah ! (slapping the forehead),,,the Y2K problem.

As soon as Windows XP is rendered obsolete, every street light, radar, bank balance and Facebook account will be rendered obsolete ... prompting a new service pack (potentially) after society has crumbled .... Mwahahaha!

 

[kothganesh]

  As soon as Windows XP is rendered obsolete, every street light, radar, bank balance and Facebook account will be rendered obsolete ... prompting a new service pack (potentially) after society has crumbled .... Mwahahaha!

Dude, you OK?

 

[leesure]

Dammit! Every time someone asks when Rags will be released, the price goes up $50!

Shhhhhh

 

[NinjaHamster]

  Dude, you OK?

LOL - I'm actually a Mac user ... but we all have empathy enough to understand the pain of others ...  

 
The Rag will be great. I actually wasn't interested in the Y-front DAC ... until I learnt that R2R (which now sounds like the "way forward" and something new and different, is also pointing at the future- I believe and hope it is pointing at the past).  Is there any difference between what people now call "R2R" than those old Phillips 16 bit DACS that Naim used (OOOoh - a "Silver Crown version") and which were disparaged long ago ... yet which keep appearing in those NOS DACS which sound so great (even if they can be a bit "dark") ... Is this a case of the newest, desirable, technology also being old and determined to be obsolete (in which case I AM buying - those 16 bit DACS should sound bad, but they are glorious ... even in a relatively "cheap" implementation" ...).

 

[jchandler3]

Is this a case of the newest, desirable, technology also being old and determined to be obsolete (in which case I AM buying - those 16 bit DACS should sound bad, but they are glorious ... even in a relatively "cheap" implementation" ...).

In Schiit Happened, Jason said:

R2R. This is nearly dead as a technology today, because it’s a pain in the butt to implement, especially with bit depths that exceed 20 bits. But it’s the only D/A technology that can be bitperfect.

It's not a new technology. From what I can glean it's maybe one of the better type of D/A but it's just too cantankerous and costly for most companies to mess with.

 

[NinjaHamster]

In Schiit Happened, Jason said:
It's not a new technology. From what I can glean it's maybe one of the better type of D/A but it's just too cantankerous and costly for most companies to mess with.

Yes ... but if I am right - and what is now called an "R2R" expensive dac, is the old multi-bit dacs ... which were a dime a dozen, back in the day. If this is the case, it is one of the first example of old digital technology being marketed as something new ... and I LOVED those 16 bit (non bitstream or sigma delta) DACS even when they were 16 bit and considered the "old obsolete" technology. I've been out of the DAC game for a while, and I just want to know if "EVERYTHING OLD IS NEW AGAIN".  If not "R2R" (is this some bizarre new terminology for "multibit") or NOS - are we talking the same type of DAC as those old Phillips TDA1541A dacs ... if so, despite the age (and the NEW "marketing? of "r2r") I am THERE. In spades and with bells on. Multi-bit used to ROCK - There were dynamics which the "better" dacs glossed over. I'm just now hoping that R2R is not the nomenclature for anything other than those ancient "obsolete" DACS which would play music, even if the "sound" (in those days) wasn't as good as the "newer" options.  Is R2R the new way of saying "MULTIBIT" ?  Is this an Altmann DAC taken to the next level ?  I have NEVER been as happy with a DAC as when I had 16 bits and no ******** ... if they can do a genuine 20 bit dac of this ilk I am amazed (also amazed that the "newer is better brigade - especially with digital" would be wrong) if these old ladder dacs have changed name to R2R and command huge fees and attention, I love it. I just had a Naim CD3 player, which sounded "bad" in so many ways, but which I would love to have again.

 

[catspaw]

Guys, The mayans, the y2k, and similar are wrong. The next world ending is when windows calendar reaches its limit...
I am thinking thats sort of what happened to the Mayans, they were writing years and got to 2012, and someone looked at the time it would take to get there and realized "Why the hell do I care about 2012? Im not gonna live to see it, f this".
 
And then people who have too much fre time started inveting all these stories.
 
I think the world could end when the first NOKIA satelite falls out of orbit and crashes into our planet, but apart from that, Id say we are quite safe.
 
Back to the topic however, the ragnarok is will be done when it is done. Unless you want to buy an unfinished product .

 

[NinjaHamster]

  Guys, The mayans, the y2k, and similar are wrong. The next world ending is when windows calendar reaches its limit...
I am thinking thats sort of what happened to the Mayans, they were writing years and got to 2012, and someone looked at the time it would take to get there and realized "Why the hell do I care about 2012? Im not gonna live to see it, f this".
 
And then people who have too much fre time started inveting all these stories.
 
I think the world could end when the first NOKIA satelite falls out of orbit and crashes into our planet, but apart from that, Id say we are quite safe.
 
Back to the topic however, the ragnarok is will be done when it is done. Unless you want to buy an unfinished product .

So you are saying the virgin sacrifice was worthless ?  Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to find a virgin nowadays ... First, I went to the pre-school, and they sent me to pre-natal ... I'm still not sure which one looks the least slutty ...

 

[paradoxper]

There's still a ton of manufacturers using R2R. 

 

[Jason Stoddard]

There's still a ton of manufacturers using R2R. 

 
A ton? No. And if you count R2R vs sigma-delta DACs sold, you're talking 0.01% or less--sigma-delta is everywhere, not just in standalone DACs, but in players and phones and tablets and computers and DAPs and everywhere.
 
R2R is nearly dead as a technology, except for a few heroic efforts using discrete R2R arrays, a few still using the last of the 6000 PCM1704s in the world, NOS stuff using 16- and 18-bit chips...that's it.
 
And even the handful manufacturers using R2R to make that vanishingly small percentage of DACs don't have a bit-perfect digital filter. Yggy does. Yggy's going to be unique. At any price.

 

[madwolfa]

Wouldn't it be like 10 bit DAC at best? I think the maximum shown on-chip prototypes were able to reach like 14 bit accuracy.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistor_ladder#Accuracy_of_R-2R_resistor_ladders
 
The issue with precision matching the resistors (doubling the requirement with each subsequent bit).

 

[jchandler3]

  Yes ... but if I am right - and what is now called an "R2R" expensive dac, is the old multi-bit dacs ... which were a dime a dozen, back in the day. If this is the case, it is one of the first example of old digital technology being marketed as something new ... and I LOVED those 16 bit (non bitstream or sigma delta) DACS even when they were 16 bit and considered the "old obsolete" technology. I've been out of the DAC game for a while, and I just want to know if "EVERYTHING OLD IS NEW AGAIN".  If not "R2R" (is this some bizarre new terminology for "multibit") or NOS - are we talking the same type of DAC as those old Phillips TDA1541A dacs ... if so, despite the age (and the NEW "marketing? of "r2r") I am THERE. In spades and with bells on. Multi-bit used to ROCK - There were dynamics which the "better" dacs glossed over. I'm just now hoping that R2R is not the nomenclature for anything other than those ancient "obsolete" DACS which would play music, even if the "sound" (in those days) wasn't as good as the "newer" options.  Is R2R the new way of saying "MULTIBIT" ?  Is this an Altmann DAC taken to the next level ?  I have NEVER been as happy with a DAC as when I had 16 bits and no ******** ... if they can do a genuine 20 bit dac of this ilk I am amazed (also amazed that the "newer is better brigade - especially with digital" would be wrong) if these old ladder dacs have changed name to R2R and command huge fees and attention, I love it. I just had a Naim CD3 player, which sounded "bad" in so many ways, but which I would love to have again.

 
(A) I haven't seen Schiit promote R2R as a new technology and (B) I wouldn't call R2R obsolete. I think the consumer electronics world just found cheaper, faster alternatives.
 
So yeah, I think Schiit is using an "older" technology even though it's more costly to implement (and it's reflected in the price of the unit). And I'm happy about it! I'm no audio engineer and don't claim to know much of anything about DACs, but I'm all about doing things the "right" way, rather than the easy way. Not many things in life irk me more than people taking the easy route. 

 

[NinjaHamster]

Cool - do you mind answering my lengthy question? Is "R2R" the new nomenclature for "Multibit", or is this a new thing ... this is not me pretending to be dumb and setting someone up for a trap. I have genuinely not done any research on DACS for MANY years ... they now seem to be all "sigma-delta" ... but I have always had a multi-bit" (or I think they used to call it a "ladder" DAC). I have heard GREAT 1 bit SACD, but that old crappy Naim CD player from so long ago really HAD something ... I am hoping that "R2R" is just the new way of saying "This is OLD and GOLD a multi-bit bacchanalian orgy of dynamics".