[adktitan]

Quote:

1-You presume to know people who spend 'X' amount of money will do research.
2-You seem to think your premise justifies the estimated shipping time posted on their site?  That makes little sense.  You are essentially saying false advertising is justifiable when there is a forum thread about it.
3-You have one 'concrete' example as an examples to the otherwise wouldn't be posting here would they.   
 
Your post makes it sound as if no case exists where a consumer goes to the 3A site, sees the estimated ship time and places an order w/o somehow ending up at this thread first.  Sorry, that is presumptuous.  
 

you're just arguing, if you dont get what im saying, sorry, ive nothing left to say...enjoy

 
 

 

[Freeze]

Sorry titan Anax is right. No ifs ands or buts about it.

 

[adktitan]

My god, get out the pitchforks. I think if you, today, not at CJ or before today, paid 2K for an item without doing your due dillegence and research, and yes, that 'research' includes coming to this website, for this particular prodcut we are discussing, and something goes wrong with it, well, tough cookies to you.
 
What is he 'right' about exactly? I'm not arguing anything concerning JHA buisness practices, website updates, consumer affairs, etc etc etc. ALL I've been saying time and time again is that you should not go to ANY manufactures website for an expensive item, or any item for that matter and just click "buy". If you do and blindly buy, I dont know what to tell ya.
 
Like I said, on any item, you should do at least a minimum amount of research first, Im saying nothing more, nothing less. In this case research will lead you directly to this thread and this argument and you would know they are not shipping today. Honestly, one guy with his first post on HF is a concrete prime example for my case and you dismiss him out of hand?
 
Say, If I decided to get into harmonica's, I would research for a bit before spending 2K on a harmonica from any company. I would not just go to their website and click 'buy now' like its ebay. I'm I the only sane one here? Im done arguing, I get enough of this at home.....I still really like this site and the merits and information I can wade through...cheers.

 

[Freeze]

Research should not be required for simple things as the ship time stated on the website. The fact they are blatantly lying on thier web page. Just cause you can research and find out they were lying doesnt magically absolve them from lying right in our face multiple times.
 
The only person that can actually defend JHA even though they have lied and attempted to trick people into ordering an item thats not shipping near 4-6 weeks like its said, well the only person i can think of that could actually defend jha for that is a shill account of a jha employee.

 

[inthecity]

1. I don't read ADK's post as defending JHA,
2. I don't think ADK's suggesting that JHA *shouldn't* have current and correct order/ship information on their website, nor excusing the lack of correct information as being correctable with a bit of research,, and
3. I agree with ADK that many people, myself as poster-child included, come across a $1000 plus IEM purchase, which is 2x, 3x, 4x the cost of the majority types of earphones most people use, and many of these people might tend to verify the quality / satisfaction of proposed purchase through a little internet research. Head-fi is clearly a likely query return on such a search.

I'm as argumentative as they come in this forum, and clearly arguing against the practices that JHA as adopted surrounding this product release and against unabashed "fan" postings which tried to minimize the JH-3a fiasco by pointing to everything but JHA as being at fault.

I haven't seen *anyone* on this thread of late, whom I might consider a JHA fan or not, who has not changed their opinion of JHA to some degree, towards the negative, and at least as concerns the JH-3a product, given the continued delay and lack of transparency, and yes, business practices such as their blatant disregard for accurate information whether on their website or email or phone.

I think you are arguing for argument's sake on this one,,, imho. ADK's is more an observation than a defense.

Now. Where is that next BART protest tonight... (btw, forget who commented,, but I'm *not* a fan of Anonymous , that earlier reference was a just-kidding post...

 

[Freeze]

Not arguing for its own sake. It truly infuriates me that they can post false information on their site. It's really sad when you can't trust the company you are buying something off of and have to rely on a 3rd party forum just to get the truth.

 

[Roffensian]

Quote:

1-You presume to know people who spend 'X' amount of money will do research.
2-You seem to think your premise justifies the estimated shipping time posted on their site?  That makes little sense.  You are essentially saying false advertising is justifiable when there is a forum thread about it.
3-You have one 'concrete' example as an examples to the otherwise wouldn't be posting here would they.   
 
Your post makes it sound as if no case exists where a consumer goes to the 3A site, sees the estimated ship time and places an order w/o somehow ending up at this thread first.  Sorry, that is presumptuous.  
 

 
I'm the new guy here and I have no intent of jumping in on this discussion - that would be presumptious.
 
 
What I will say is that at the time that I looked at the 3a I had no idea that there were problems.  I have a little knowledge of audio, and as we know a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.  I was aware of JH and was researching the 16 Pros vs UE, etc and saw the 3a on the JH website.  I didn't find their description particularly helpful as to exactly what a 3a was so went to Google and simply typed in 'JH Audio 3a' which very quickly brought me here where I not only learned what it was, but also that there were issues.
 
I was surprised to learn of the problems having seen the 4 - 6 weeks comment, but as someone who certainly isn't an 'expert' I would be amazed if anyone dropped the best part of two grand based on their description of the product regardless of shipping time - it just doesn't explain the product well enough (for me), let alone attempt to sell the benefits.
 
So I guess what I am trying to say is that you don't have to look very hard to learn of the issues, and to me that research is vital if you want to understand what you are buying.  I don't think that excuses the 4 - 6 weeks on the website (although I don't know that it isn't an accurate statement today - I understand that it has said that for some time).  I'm not particularly upset about it because it didn't affect my decision.
 
Having said all of that, I have been a moderator on a watch forum for some time and I am always amazed at how much money some people are prepared to pay without the slightest amount of research, and if I were one of those people I would have been extremely upset - I have been waiting over two years for a product that I bought on the web that was listed as 'in stock' and that vendor doesn't like me very much any more

 
 

 

[Freeze]

I can agree with your position. Most decently intelligent people will do some research and find out this problem. But for the people that just shop and pick stuff and get it, well it sucks for them. And you should be able to trust what a company posts on their site. They are being totally unethical by keeping that like that. You shouldn't have to go to a forum to find out something as big as that. The delay should be displayed on the companies website and not in a forum.

 

[Anaxilus]

ADK's is more an observation than a defense.

 
Well it just didn't come off like that.  He quoted Freeze's post about misleading ship times and responded to it directly w/ a post about doing research.  If it was just an observation posted underneath that would have been easier to read in that light.  But as a direct response to another quote it certainly seemed like a defense to me.  Maybe something along the lines of saying problems could be avoided if subject 'X' did action 'Y' would have been more obvious.  It came off as any 'X' buying the 3A will do 'Y' first.  That should obviously sound like an irrational defense.  Whatevers, it's the internet and lexical ambiguity runs amock here.  Carry on w/ the waiting game.

 

[Girls Generation]

There's no point to this argument.

Yes, it's is wrong that JHA has not fixed the details on their site, and is now displaying false information.

Yes, it is only common sense that one should research a bit before pressing 'buy' on something that costs almost two thousand dollars. The majority of the people in most forums say, "use the search button" aka google, so arguing against this point would mean you have never ever said anything like that to anyone on any [new] thread in any forum.

Anyway, I don't see an argument here, so I think you guys should stop posting before a mod comes and participates

 

[Br777]

just ordered a new bag for my 3A and other portable gear. 
 
it looks like it will be perfect.
 
http://www.happycow.com.au/leather-mans-bag-practical-shoulder.html

 

[Tonyflo]

I think what kinda perplexes me, is that there are so many ways to handle this -- yet JHA has tended to take the worst of all options each time ... 
 
- They dramatically under communicate (would be so much better to over communicate in this case) ...
- They miss projected timelines, seemingly without explanation or concern ...
- Rather than be proactive, they wait for people to get crazy, upset, threatening, and dramatic, and then do the minimum in "reactive" fashion ...
 
Don't get me wrong, I love JHA and my JH16's are unreal. But for a seemingly people-centered company with decent marketing savvy, they could have
really turned this lemon into lemonade. 
 
Seriously, had they personally called all customers. Had they issued frequent, even if meaningless updates (i.e. "no news, Jerry still tweaking the amp") and
had they taken the time to better explain this technology to everyone, it's development, what makes it so different, and just solid/interesting education while
this was going on, this whole situation would be WAY different.
 
Instead, they would have happier, most understanding customers who -- while eager to get their amps -- would be more patient and less likely to bash them
so frequently on all the boards. On top of that, the customers would have a better intellectual foundation to appreciate and even evangelize the product once
they actually heard it and were convinced. 
 
For now, however, it seems that most of the damage is done. But I still believe they would leave a better taste in everyone's mouth if they adopted some of these points. 
 
In fact, even if they did all the above for purely selfish reasons -- both them and this first wave of customers would be so much better off. 
 
But I guess it also seems there is some intense pride/stubbornness working here as well that's making it hard to change, though that's complete conjecture on my part,
(just the sense that I get). Then again, who am I? I'm not even a Headphoneus Supremus

 

[bneiderman]

Quote:

just ordered a new bag for my 3A and other portable gear. 
 
it looks like it will be perfect.
 
http://www.happycow.com.au/leather-mans-bag-practical-shoulder.html

Nice murse! Seems like a nice item.
 
 

 

[jnug]

 
 
Quote:

Given the overall investment involved in owning these high-end reference systems, I think the 60-70% average is remarkable, even if you go for a a tricked out digital source system to feed your JH-3A with a Diverter HR and quality interconnects, which I definitely recommend if it's within your means.  But even on a budget level JH-3A system, this relative score will drop somewhat, though the experience should still be highly satisfying for most people.  I would still recommend opting for the best quality reference recordings available as budget allows.  None of that lossy stuff to ruin the experience.

 
 
 
While the Diverter HR does appear to be an excellent product it is costly and hardly seems to be something one would want to carry anywhere. Any idea how much not using a Diverter HR cuts into the 60-70% estimate? I do think that is a remarkable number as well. When you consider the cost that goes into a true reference system even 50% would be a remarkable number. No wonder there is so much intensity about the JH-3A. 
 
I for one don't have much of an issue with carrying around a typically sized "stack" (isomething, CLAS, JH-3A plus cables) to get that kind of performance or even close to it. Some have expressed concern over being totally committed to using the IEM's with the amp as a mated pair. I don't have a problem with that and don't wonder that the design platform that JH is using (power to each driver of JH16s' as needed) is just so far beyond what you could expect even using a CLAS with a great dac, a great amp and great IEM's. Seems to me that somebody else will have to duplicate that platform with hardware of similar stature to have a shot at getting close to the potential of the JH-3A and that the user would have to make the same kind of commitment to use the IEM's with the amp as a matched set.
 
I wonder if other suppliers will be compelled to try to match the sonic capabilities of the JH-3A.
 
 

 

[tf1216]

Warp,

Were you talking about a home stereo reference system or a headphone reference system?

To me, a 50-60% performance achievement of a home stereo reference system is spectacular but not for a headphone reference system.

Am I on an island by myself with my belief?