[n_maher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EliasGwinn /img/forum/go_quote.gif Tyll, What advantages does balanced headphones offer vs. the typical configuration? Also, how are these advantages achieved? Thanks, Elias

Elias,

You should give this a read.

HTH,

Nate

 

[The Monkey]

Has anyone tried to balance a pair of IEMs?

 

[EliasGwinn]

Tyll or n-maher,

What is the total (combined) slew-rate of the HeadRoom balanced headphone drivers?

Thanks,
Elias

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EliasGwinn /img/forum/go_quote.gif What advantages does balanced headphones offer vs. the typical configuration? Also, how are these advantages achieved?

1) Getting rid of the common ground connection in the headphones, which lowers crosstalk.

2) Doubling of slew rate.

3) Doubling of the wattage delivered to the headphone drivers.

4) Cancellation of some of the distortion products of the amp.

There are also some things that may be worse.

1) Because you are only driving half the load with each side of the balanced amp (there is a virtual ground point half way into the driver coil) the effective impedance each amp is driving is halved, resulting in a halving of the damping factor each amp sees.

2) It is critical the the inverted and non-inverted channels are matched to realize item 4) above; if not, you can actually create more problems than you solve.

For the most part, achieving these results is a matter of channel matching pairs of highly linear amplifiers. Other than that it's a pretty "brute force" method of achieving improved performance. That's essentially another advantage of this method: Simply doubling the amount of audio electronics of a known good design double many of the performance characteristics. Getting double the objective performance otherwise would take significant changes in circuit topology and componant performance. In other words, you can take an existing design and double its performance simply by doubling the number of circuits and doing some critical matching.

I'll check into the actual overall slew rate numbers next week, but what ever it is single-ended, it's double when driven differentially.

 

[mrarroyo]

Tyll if you do not mind me asking why do most amp manufactures use the xlr for balance cables. Wouldn't the 4 prong use by the K1000 do the same? Thanks.

 

[noseallinit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'll admit there's a lot of stuff jammed into that enclosure , but it would be great if an unbalanced output (RCA) were shoehorned in there somewhere.

I too wish there was an Output on the Desktop Balanced Amp but instead of Unbalanced I wish the XLR Inputs were actually XLR Outputs so you could hook up a set of Active Monitors that has Balanced XLR Inputs.

I see the Desktop Balanced Amp as a product more geared to be used around a computer in which the DAC would be used to Input the Balanced Signal. The XLR Inputs would not be used by me and if it had Balanced XLR Outputs then I could ditch me NAD/ Polks for a set of Active Monitors that has Balanced XLR Inputs.

maybe the Home Balanced Amp w/ Home Modules would be a better solution. it has Balanced and Unbalanced Outputs plus an extra Unblanced Input. I think it also has a much better Power Supply than the Desktop Power Supply and I dunno how much difference from there that would give it better SQ. with the Home Modules and DAC I think it's about $1000 more than a Desktop Balanced w/ Home Modules and DAC plus the Desktop Power Supply. plus it would give you the option of going with the Max Modules.

I dunno but this is getting more and more out of me price range. I sure like the Desktop Balanced Amp and it's footprint the best! I was dreaming of the Desktop Amp when the Balanced was announced. maybe the Desktop Amp is where I need to be and it would give me the option of an Unbalanced Output for some Active Monitors plus a couple of Unbalanced Inputs.

to me it would be nice if the Balanced XLR Inputs were actually XLR Outputs. or have the option to have them or maybe even Unbalanced. how much trouble would this be to the existing design to have it as an option or for someone to do a modification? if possible..

 

[noseallinit]

on the Desktop Balanced and Home Balanced Amps, when switching from Digital Input to Analog Unbalanced do you have to switch from Balanced to Unbalanced Headphones? or can you continue to use the Balanced Headphones no matter how the Input is coming in?

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noseallinit /img/forum/go_quote.gif I dunno but this is getting more and more out of me price range. I sure like the Desktop Balanced Amp and it's footprint the best! I was dreaming of the Desktop Amp when the Balanced was announced. maybe the Desktop Amp is where I need to be and it would give me the option of an Unbalanced Output for some Active Monitors plus a couple of Unbalanced Inputs.

I was in the same quandary a couple weeks ago. Now I have both Desktop models. I had difficulty imagining anything better than the SE. After two days with the balanced, I can tell you that there's a big difference. If you're looking at either, I'd strongly suggest the balanced -- especially the package deal. I'm planning to keep the SE for my unbalanced cans. It may also go to the office.



Disclaimer: BTW, I'm not associated with HeadRoom in any way except as a satisfied customer.

 

[noseallinit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by feifan /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was in the same quandary a couple weeks ago. Now I have both Desktop models. I had difficulty imagining anything better than the SE. After two days with the balanced, I can tell you that there's a big difference. If you're looking at either, I'd strongly suggest the balanced -- especially the package deal. I'm planning to keep the SE for my unbalanced cans. It may also go to the office. Disclaimer: BTW, I'm not associated with HeadRoom in any way except as a satisfied customer.

yeah, I'm totally caught up in HeadRoom's products! there is only a couple of other headphone companies that really catch me attention but it's HeadRoom's products that I want to acquire.

I want the Desktop Balanced Amp but I also want a headphone amp that I can use as a preamp. The Desktop line is a good size footprint for me and me best option just may be the SE Desktop Amp for inputs, outputs and price.

for years I have been looking to downsize the footprint of me stereo equipment. acquiring me current NAD/ Polks was the first time I downsized me stereo equipment from me old setup. for the past couple to few years I have wanted to base it around me iMac. I looked at Active Monitors with built in DAC's as an alternative. then a bud turned me back onto headphones and showed me headphones amps for the first time. this is when I realized headphones amps was what I had been looking for. the MicroAmp and DAC helped me tie in me NAD to me iMac for the best! SQ improved feeding the NAD by MicroDAC/ iMac. I have 2 sets of line level inputs and outputs and the NAD is basically a Switch between sources and ouputs. now I would like to do away with the NAD all together and in one of two ways use a headphone amp as a preamp. I still want to have some use of speakers and I still have me mind on Active Monitors. this will keep me footprint to a minimum.

if Balanced sounds great for headphones it's gotta be best for them Active Monitors as well. I see the Desktop Balanced Amp based around a computer with input to it's DAC and not the Balanced inputs. someone else may feel differently. it will be awhile before I can afford to make the change so if lucky by then Tyll will be offering a Desktop Balanced Amp w/ the option of Balanced outputs instead of inputs. I doubt I'll ever be able to afford the Home Amp. anyway I prefer the footprint of the Desktop line the best. so the SE Desktop Amp may be me best option to tie in speakers and headphones to me iMac but I want Balanced now.

 

[The Monkey]

My balanced desktop w/DAC should arrive tomorrow. Let the recabling begin!

 

[n_maher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif My balanced desktop w/DAC should arrive tomorrow. Let the recabling begin!

Sweet, can't wait to hear what you think of it! Let me know if you need an emergency balanced cable loan.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noseallinit /img/forum/go_quote.gif if Balanced sounds great for headphones it's gotta be best for them Active Monitors as well. I see the Desktop Balanced Amp based around a computer with input to it's DAC and not the Balanced inputs. someone else may feel differently. it will be awhile before I can afford to make the change so if lucky by then Tyll will be offering a Desktop Balanced Amp w/ the option of Balanced outputs instead of inputs.

I can guaranty you that we're working on our gear to become more speaker inclusive. We did talk about outputs instead of inputs on it breifly as an alternative idea, but we really can't make gear with too many options. My guess is that the split is 50/50 on whether folks would like ins or outs. But we're very aware and interested in your comments, and those of others. Keep 'em comming.

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sweet, can't wait to hear what you think of it! Let me know if you need an emergency balanced cable loan.

A certain Cardas cable is getting balanced tonight or tomorrow...

 

[noseallinit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can guaranty you that we're working on our gear to become more speaker inclusive. We did talk about outputs instead of inputs on it breifly as an alternative idea, but we really can't make gear with too many options. My guess is that the split is 50/50 on whether folks would like ins or outs. But we're very aware and interested in your comments, and those of others. Keep 'em comming.

another alternative to using active bi-amp monitors with a headphone amp as a preamp would be to use an external amp or even mono blocks(like CIA's Class D D-100/ D-200 w/ XLR input or Meiers Corda Poweramp-1 used with the Corda PreHead) to drive a set of small speakers.

with an upcoming release of the Class D Desktop Amplifier the only headphone amps in the Desktop Line with ouputs are the SE Desktop Amp and the Millett Hybrid Amp(I reckon that's half of them or 2 out of 4). to me it would make sense to offer an option of XLR or RCA outputs instead of XLR inputs on the Desktop Balanced Amp since one of the greatest features of the Balanced Amp talked about by HeadRoom is that you can get balanced input by it's internal DAC option via computer and I assume a CD player or anything with digital ouput. by what I have read I would have almost made it stock with the Desktop DAC and gave it the option of the Home DAC(by my needs anyway, maybe by not someone else or ones that would want it without a DAC altogether).

and then with the anouncement of the Class D Desktop Amplifier of which I was very excited to hear about. q:O) and then the Desktop Speaker Stands to hold the Desktop Line. I really dig on the HR Desktop Line and it's all around me iMac that I see it happening. q:O)

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noseallinit /img/forum/go_quote.gif I really dig on the HR Desktop Line and it's all around me iMac that I see it happening. q:O)

Thanks! That's exactly what I feel. One of the problems I sometimes have is that once the prototypes show up on my desk I can feel my drive to complete the process for indroducing products decrease. After all, I've got mine. But fear not, it's comming. As assurance I'll offer that I've continued to redesign the speaker stands so that they look even cooler. That's assurance because now I want the new version on my desk!