[timbukktwo]

Beautiful shot!

 

[supabayes]

m920-Utopia combo is perfect for the office desktop and bedside table. 
 

 

[Sybil]

Ah well, all I can say is I tried. Think I'm going to take a break from all this.

 

[Tobes]

Ah well, all I can say is I tried.

Too lean and analytical in the end?
Ah well don't blame the messenger.

 

[Sybil]

Still think soundstage leaves a lot to be desired. But I guess that's generally a problem with headphones. Nothing can compare to natural open space of speakers, even bookshelf speakers.

I find myself enjoying my notebook speakers more than this, so no point forcing myself anymore.

 

[Tobes]

I've only compared the m920 to the Violectric v281 and that was with the hifiman he500 and he6. I don't recall any great difference in soundstage via the HP output. However the m920 was markedly superior to the v281 in soundstaging and transparency via the line out with speakers. Hence I kept the m920.

I would agree that speakers produce a much more realistic soundstage. Having said that I find the Utopia headphones a valid and musically rewarding alternative and also quite close in tonal balance to my Harbeth speakers. (I know they're stupidly expensive and ought to sound great).

Edit: I've got to say that soundtaging should not be the prime criteria for judging headphones or speakers. The primary criteria should be correct tonal balance because without that all the other stuff doesn't matter.
IMO transducers are far more likely to depart from correct balance than competently designed electronics.

 

[Sybil]

Guess I am just really spoilt by my old speaker setup for long time, haha. I only went headphones because of space problems I'm having now amongst other issues. It was worth a try I guess. Pity it is not working out.

I agree balance is important, but for me I place a great emphasis on how much a sound system as a whole can vanish. I'm not really sure how to describe it, but I guess "vanish" will have to suffice. I do not want to know there is a sound system, or an identifiable source.

The best example I can give is the Syn Chron art exhibition, one of the best audio (and visual) experiences I have ever encountered. It is a big structure you can walk into where each panel has an ELAC "speaker" attached to it.

I cannot describe into words what it is like to be inside. I can only imagine it is what being in deep space would be like. You cannot pinpoint a single source of sound. It just flows at you with extreme fluidity. This is the kind of experience I look for. And for me it is definitely as important as balance.

Actually, it was the Syn Chron that sealed my love for ELAC speakers and the brand as a whole. I had high hopes for the HD800S as I had owned the HD800 before and had decent memories with it. But that was long ago.

 

[Tobes]

For most of the last 20years I've been a speaker only listener. It's probably only the last couple of years where headphones have taken up a significant amount of my listening time. Prior to that I never really liked listening to them - they'd start to annoy and fatigue me after a short session. This was with the Audio Technica AD900 and later the AKG701. The turning point for me was getting the HE500 - suddenly I had a HP that produced real bass and sounded balanced and musical. It wasn't perfect but I could listen to it for extended periods and with a broad scope of music.
 
I like precise imaging and sound staging as much as anyone, but balance comes first - otherwise the sound will eventually annoy and become fatiguing. IMO there is simply no comparison between the more precise (but bright and lean) sound of the AKG701 and the far better balanced HE500. I think the HD600 is also a well balanced HP, though it's not great in terms of clarity and not particularly spacious.
Frankly I think the whole 'sound staging' concept with headphones is hugely overstated, usually by people who haven't experienced what well set up speakers can do.

 

[Sybil]

Frankly I think the whole 'sound staging' concept with headphones is hugely overstated, usually by people who haven't experienced what well set up speakers can do.

Yep, I think that really is the issue.

Coming from a very decent speaker setup, I couldn't understand what everyone here was going on about when they overstate the soundstage that their headphone system can produce.

Even for the amount the M920 and HD800S cost you can buy a speaker system which will easily defeat it (as far as soundstage is concerned) with even minimal effort in terms of placement of the speakers and the listener.

For me everything just sounds too close to me with the M920 and HD800S for me to consider most of my music enjoyable. I admit there are some tracks which blow me away with this setup. But it's at the cost of the rest (and majority) of my music. Thus it is not a sacrifice I am willing to make. For me my music comes first.

I think no-one should be qualified to judge soundstage on headphones without first having, as you said; "experienced what well set up speakers can do." Else it can give a lot of false hope to those in my situation.

It's one thing to go from crap notebook speakers or free bundled earphones to a good headphone system.

It's a completely different story to go from a good speaker system to a good headphone system.

Oh well. Lesson learned I guess.

 

[Dreaming Jester]

This thread seems dead a little too early. Did you know that Grace plan on adding DSD256 to the m920? Said 'No current timeline on that yet...' on 2 May. After the m9xx/900 and m905 got firmware updates, why not for the wonderful m920 too.

 

[trybeingarun]

Hey guys, I have the option of getting an m920 used for around $1100. Given that there are other options like Oppo Ha-1, Oppo Sonica etc, which seem to have more features than m920, will anyone care to explain whether it's a good decision to get m920? I use a hd6xx / he560 and am planning on using m920's head out since. Is the sound/build quality of m920 head and shoulders ahead of Oppo dac/amps? As for additional features Oppo offers, they are nice to have but definitely not must have for me.

 

[Dreaming Jester]

Hey guys, I have the option of getting an m920 used for around $1100. Given that there are other options like Oppo Ha-1, Oppo Sonica etc, which seem to have more features than m920, will anyone care to explain whether it's a good decision to get m920? I use a hd6xx / he560 and am planning on using m920's head out since. Is the sound/build quality of m920 head and shoulders ahead of Oppo dac/amps? As for additional features Oppo offers, they are nice to have but definitely not must have for me.

What features exactly are you referring to? I've never used Oppo but I'm sure the m920 has some features Oppo are missing, not to mention the excellent build and sound quality of the m920 - a professional unit. $1100 seem like a steal, even now when the dac is getting a bit long in the tooth. The m920 should easily power your headphones.

 

[ViperGeek]

Hey guys, I have the option of getting an m920 used for around $1100. Given that there are other options like Oppo Ha-1, Oppo Sonica etc, which seem to have more features than m920, will anyone care to explain whether it's a good decision to get m920? I use a hd6xx / he560 and am planning on using m920's head out since. Is the sound/build quality of m920 head and shoulders ahead of Oppo dac/amps? As for additional features Oppo offers, they are nice to have but definitely not must have for me.

What Jester said. The Grace Design m920 — or all Grace DAC/amps for that matter — is a world class, commercial build quality DAC and headphone amp with the added benefit of also being a fully balanced preamp. The USB, AES3, S/PDIF, and TOSLINK (optical) inputs give you an incredible range of flexibility. I've listened to quite a few DACs, but keep coming back to the m920 as my reference unit, with no yearning to upgrade in the near to mid future. And with a 1.2Ω output impedance, it easily drives my HD-650, ATH-M50x, and LCD-2 headphones, and even does a respectable job driving power-demanding LCD-4s (although they have their own dedicated fully balanced tube amp).

You can monitor MassDrop to see if you can get a brand new one for around $1299, but the m920 hasn't really aged, so $1100 lightly used (i.e. no visible abuse) is a pretty sweet deal.

- Dave

 

[timbukktwo]

I use the Akg K812's with the m920 and couldn't be happier! They're both pretty much monitoring end-game for me. All things considered, they're a pretty tough combo to beat for me, imo.

 

[trybeingarun]

What features exactly are you referring to?

I'm glad you guys ( @Dreaming Jester @ViperGeek @timbukktwo ) are still happy with the m920 unit. Since I'm not a pro user I don't think I will need inputs like bnc & AES. This post provides a feature comparison between the HA-1 and m920; since it's written by a HA-1 owner I think there might be some bias in his view point. The Oppo Sonica DAC doesn't have an amp unit; it come with a network streamer, which is interesting. It also comes with the newer ES9038-pro dac chip.