[Pricklely Peete]

Your Welcome PJ 

 
Peete.
Quote:

But do you have the Ref7HE plugged into the wall or also into the Thor?  I'm just trying to see what the difference would be in that scenario, if any different from what you already described.  Either way, you can't go wrong with either DAC.  I am grateful to the original Audio-gd Ref-1 owners who posted about it, leading me to buy one and then upgrading to the Ref7 when it came out.
 
Honestly I don't see myself upgrading again anytime soon though. I am truly happy with the Ref7. Having always been bit by the upgraditis bug, I think my fever is over.  Had I known about the Ref7HE before I purchased the Ref7 I most likely would have gone for it (even though I don't have the room for it on my rack), but it wasn't even available then.  I think I was the 2nd person to buy one.  DACs with outboard power supplies are known to have slightly lower noise floors, vs. identical or similar models with internal power supplies.  Maybe in the distant future I would ask Kingwa to design me some massive, triple or quad chassis custom DAC but that would be a long ways off. 

 

[gevorg]

 
[size=medium]

Have these Sabre32 DACs overthrown the legendary Audio-gd PCM1704 DACs? Wow!
 
 
 
[size=large]Inform[/size]

[size=small]The PCM1704 will out of stock soon , below models are the  last for sale , they will discontinued within a few month.[/size]

[size=medium]DAC-19 ,    Reference-5 ,   Reference-9 ,  Reference -8 ,  Reference -7 , DAC-3SE[/size]
​

[/size]

 

[Epoch]

The Sabre32 DACs are born out of necessity due to the discontinuation of the PCM1704 DACs.
 
The last thing I heard was that the PCM1704 minimum order quantity was 1600 units with a 5 month lead time, which is a pretty serious requirement.  I can imagine that it while it is still possible for more to be ordered, I doubt that it is feasible.

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

The Sabre32 DACs are born out of necessity due to the discontinuation of the PCM1704 DACs.
 
The last thing I heard was that the PCM1704 minimum order quantity was 1600 units with a 5 month lead time, which is a pretty serious requirement.  I can imagine that it while it is still possible for more to be ordered, I doubt that it is feasible.

I am sure it helped, but that is a pretty negative way to put it lol.
 
He was probably thinking about another chip for a while and this was the final shove. Its not like this chip hasn't been bumpy in the past. That and the Sabre32 is a damned good chip in its own right... makes a "forced" transition that much easier.

 

[Epoch]

I am not stating that the replacement is in any way inferior, just that the statement above about the Sabre32 chips overthrowing the PCM1704 is a little inaccurate.
 
I made no comment on performance because I can't, its just a matter of necessity that something replaces the PCM1704 if he plans on selling DACs in the future.  I have already expressed interest in how the new DACs fare, I have no reason to believe that its a change for the worse, but it is a forced change.  The customizable filter ability of the ESS9018 does intrigue me, but that requires PCM input instead of the currently used SPDIF direct to the chip.
 
I hope for great results, especially since the previous models will be gone and no longer available.

 

[macrog]

I have had an NFB7 since Tuesday and it really is very impressive.  Lots of detail and really dynamic. It is by no means run in yet, but so far I would suggest, that per Kingwa's descriptions of neutral versus musical, the NFB7 is more neutral than the Reference 1 or perhaps the Reference 1 is more musical. I am not suggesting that the NFB7 is sterile, just very analytical. The pcm1704s and ess9018 are clearly different in character but I do not believe that either presentation could be called flawed, just different. I believe that there are probably equal numbers of people that would prefer either presentation. Kingwa states that his musical series of dacs are more forgiving of inferior recording quality than his neutral series of dacs, I would certainly suggest that the Reference 1 and Reference 7 HE are far more forgiving of poor recordings than the nfb7 (not a problem just an observation).
 
I have no regrets on the purchase of the NFB7 and it performs very well with the Phoenix (via acss) and HD800s.
 
This is just a preliminary impression and will be followed by a more considered opinion when it is more run in.  
 
Macrog

 

[Pacha]

Well, that's interesting.
 
If NFB-7 is dead neutral, what would be the new musical DACs lineup if he stops producing RE-8, 9 and DAC-3SE though?

 

[realmassy]

Quote:

Well, that's interesting.
 
If NFB-7 is dead neutral, what would be the new musical DACs lineup if he stops producing RE-8, 9 and DAC-3SE though?

Good question!
We shall wait and see 

 

[runswithaliens]

 
Quote:

[size=large]Inform[/size]

[size=small]The PCM1704 will out of stock soon , below models are the  last for sale , they will discontinued within a few month.[/size][size=medium]
[/size]
​

 
 
Personally I blame all the purchasers of the Reference 7 with its 8 Pieces of PCM1704UK inside for hogging up all the chips!

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Well, that's interesting.
 
If NFB-7 is dead neutral, what would be the new musical DACs lineup if he stops producing RE-8, 9 and DAC-3SE though?

Probably the NFB-8 and NFB-9.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

 
 
 
Personally I blame all the purchasers of the Reference 7 with its 8 Pieces of PCM1704UK inside for hogging up all the chips!

Oh sure, it's our fault.

 
You want more chips?  Buy some.
 
202 available here:
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/482767-ic-24-bit-audio-dac-20-sop-pcm1704u-k.html
 
153 here:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/PCM1704U-K/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuo%252bmZx5g6tFHrsymnP8GpU
 
20 here:
http://export.farnell.com/_/dp/1648629
 
and you can order a spool of 1060 chips directly from TI via a part supplier at any time, or perhaps even directly from TI for less.

 

[Turn&cough]

I don't see "the PCM1704's days are numbered" as a valid reason for going with the Sabre chip. He could probably build more DACs than he could sell with the remaining stocks. It has to be for other reasons - lower production costs, easier implementation, equal or better performance or all of the aforementioned.

 

[Pacha]

 
Quote:

Probably the NFB-8 and NFB-9.

 
Obviously, but what kind of electronic implementation, Diamond difference applied?

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

I don't see "the PCM1704's days are numbered" as a valid reason for going with the Sabre chip. He could probably build more DACs than he could sell with the remaining stocks. It has to be for other reasons - lower production costs, easier implementation, equal or better performance or all of the aforementioned.

I'll post here what I posted in the Ref7 thread as a reponse to another post.  See below:
 

 
Quote:

/img/forum/go_quote.gif

For those previously wondering about future PCM1704UK repairs, I asked Kingwa that in a mail... He said that out of around ~20k pieces he´s sold, only three have malfunctioned so they have been very, very reliable. But added that he will keep chips for future repairs, so no worries about that.

If he has really sold 20,000 chips, why wouldn't he place an order for a new reel?  It can't be the cost, since you can get them for $18 each when you buy 1000 of them.  We know it can't be the cost since his Altera chip is like $50 and he uses it in the Digital Interface, plus people are willing to pay the extra amount.  So it sounds like he just prefers the Sabre.  It must sound better, and he probably doesn't want to say that yet empirically until he is able to sell the rest of his R2R units.  This is the only scenario that makes sense.

 

[FauDrei]

If he has really sold 20,000 chips, why wouldn't he place an order for a new reel?  It can't be the cost, since you can get them for $18 each when you buy 1000 of them.  We know it can't be the cost since his Altera chip is like $50 and he uses it in the Digital Interface, plus people are willing to pay the extra amount.  So it sounds like he just prefers the Sabre.  It must sound better, and he probably doesn't want to say that yet empirically until he is able to sell the rest of his R2R units.  This is the only scenario that makes sense.

 
Macrog, we know it is too soon, but does IPodPJ have a point here? Do you see potential in NFB-7 to better RE-7?