[macrog]

Yes a Thor PS10. 
 
macrog
 
Cost of the Reference 7HE was expensive. They are custom order only. Well worth it though.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Yes a Thor PS10. 
 
macrog
 
Cost of the Reference 7HE was expensive. They are custom order only. Well worth it though.

But do you have the Ref7HE plugged into the wall or also into the Thor?  I'm just trying to see what the difference would be in that scenario, if any different from what you already described.  Either way, you can't go wrong with either DAC.  I am grateful to the original Audio-gd Ref-1 owners who posted about it, leading me to buy one and then upgrading to the Ref7 when it came out.
 
Honestly I don't see myself upgrading again anytime soon though. I am truly happy with the Ref7. Having always been bit by the upgraditis bug, I think my fever is over.  Had I known about the Ref7HE before I purchased the Ref7 I most likely would have gone for it (even though I don't have the room for it on my rack), but it wasn't even available then.  I think I was the 2nd person to buy one.  DACs with outboard power supplies are known to have slightly lower noise floors, vs. identical or similar models with internal power supplies.  Maybe in the distant future I would ask Kingwa to design me some massive, triple or quad chassis custom DAC but that would be a long ways off. 

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

But do you have the Ref7HE plugged into the wall or also into the Thor?  I'm just trying to see what the difference would be in that scenario, if any different from what you already described.  Either way, you can't go wrong with either DAC.  I am grateful to the original Audio-gd Ref-1 owners who posted about it, leading me to buy one and then upgrading to the Ref7 when it came out.
 
Honestly I don't see myself upgrading again anytime soon though. I am truly happy with the Ref7. Having always been bit by the upgraditis bug, I think my fever is over.  Had I known about the Ref7HE before I purchased the Ref7 I most likely would have gone for it (even though I don't have the room for it on my rack), but it wasn't even available then.  I think I was the 2nd person to buy one.  DACs with outboard power supplies are known to have slightly lower noise floors, vs. identical or similar models with internal power supplies.  Maybe in the distant future I would ask Kingwa to design me some massive, triple or quad chassis custom DAC but that would be a long ways off. 

I don't think it would be particularly worth it at this point in time... I2S is getting more and more popular so hopefully they will finalize a universal implementation and Kingwa will put it in his products and have a few sources to match.
 
With specs like -126db, a lower noise floor is not really a priority for Kingwa I am sure haha.
 

 

[macrog]

Quote:

But do you have the Ref7HE plugged into the wall or also into the Thor?  I'm just trying to see what the difference would be in that scenario, if any different from what you already described.  Either way, you can't go wrong with either DAC.  I am grateful to the original Audio-gd Ref-1 owners who posted about it, leading me to buy one and then upgrading to the Ref7 when it came out.
 
Honestly I don't see myself upgrading again anytime soon though. I am truly happy with the Ref7. Having always been bit by the upgraditis bug, I think my fever is over.  Had I known about the Ref7HE before I purchased the Ref7 I most likely would have gone for it (even though I don't have the room for it on my rack), but it wasn't even available then.  I think I was the 2nd person to buy one.  DACs with outboard power supplies are known to have slightly lower noise floors, vs. identical or similar models with internal power supplies.  Maybe in the distant future I would ask Kingwa to design me some massive, triple or quad chassis custom DAC but that would be a long ways off. 

 At Kingwa's suggestion Ref7HE is plugged into Thor PS10
 
He suggested not running the C1SE and extra output stage through it but everything else is.
 
Macrog

 

[IPodPJ]

So you can plug the 7HE into the wall and compare it to the RE7 into the Thor?  I see no point in going through two regenerators.  If one is doing it's job, you shouldn't need a second.

 

[macrog]

[size=small]No I dont own a Reference 7 I am very familiar with them though.[/size]
[size=small]  [/size]
[size=small] I do have a Reference 1 though and as I use acss the reference 1 sounds pretty near identical to the reference 7 to me.[/size]
[size=small]  [/size]
[size=small] I have tried the Ref 7 he without using the Thor and it was clearly not as good.[/size]
[size=small]  [/size]
[size=small] Macrog[/size]

 

[sokolov91]

WHERE are these damned NFB impressions? All I need is someone to tip me off the edge to buy one... 
 
Anyone have a delivery date?

 

[Audio Bling]

Quote:

WHERE are these damned NFB impressions? All I need is someone to tip me off the edge to buy one... 
 
Anyone have a delivery date?

Kingwa said earlier this week that they would begin shipping NFB-1 this week coming.

 

[borrego]

Quote:

WHERE are these damned NFB impressions? All I need is someone to tip me off the edge to buy one... 
 
Anyone have a delivery date?

There has been 1 NFB1 shipped so far.... to another fellow in Hong Kong: http://www.audio-gd.com/ConsignmentGlobal.htm
 
I expect mine to come next week. It will be shipped to my office address so I will first test it with my single ended Beyer A1 clone amp and Sony SA3000

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

There has been 1 NFB1 shipped so far.... to another fellow in Hong Kong: http://www.audio-gd.com/ConsignmentGlobal.htm
 
I expect mine to come next week. It will be shipped to my office address so I will first test it with my single ended Beyer A1 clone amp and Sony SA3000

Sweet! I can't wait to read your impressions -especially since I have the SA5K, which I understand are very similar to the SA3000... so at least there will be some common ground!

 
Quote:

Kingwa said earlier this week that they would begin shipping NFB-1 this week coming.

Thanks!
 

 

[sokolov91]

Kinda off topic but please hear me out.
 
I wanted the phoenix to got with my NFB-7, but I also see myself getting an Audio GD power amp in the future (however far into the future lol). 
 
The phoenix does not output ACSS via SATRI connectors and can't be moded to do so.
 
Kingwa offered to mod the ACSS modules on the C3 or C39MK3 to allow me to use it as both a headphone amp, and a pre-amp for any future power amp.
 
The C3 is only like 200$ more expensive than the Phoenix, and offers me a lot of future value. However, it will not drive SE headphones without some serious work on my end and will offer slightly less power out put vs. the phoenix.
 
Any thoughts as to what might mate best with the NFB Dac series? Or what is the most logical choice?
 
Thanks

 

[macrog]

The C3 is more transparent and detailed than the Phoenix as a preamp anyway (yes I have tried both). The balanced headphone output from the C3 sounds like a wonderful idea. I will look into it myself.
 
The Acss output of the nfb series dacs makes the modified C3 the best option I would guess. Did Kingwa indicate how the headphone performance would compare to the Phoenix? Clearly if its not as good it gets more complicated.  I would go as high up the dac range as you can afford. Audio-gd gear gets better as it gets more expensive (less compromises and wonderfully over engineered).
 
Regards
 
Macrog

 

[FauDrei]

Kingwa offered to mod the ACSS modules on the C3 or C39MK3 to allow me to use it as both a headphone amp, and a pre-amp for any future power amp.  
The C3 is only like 200$ more expensive than the Phoenix, and offers me a lot of future value. However, it will not drive SE headphones without some serious work on my end and will offer slightly less power out put vs. the phoenix.

This is the upgrade I'm saving money for...
 
...and It WILL drive SE headphones, you just need a couple modifications:
 

• Ask for BU-3 output buffer. It is the "strongest" one and can drive headphones with impedance greater than 15Ω (BU-1 > 25 Ω; BU-2 > 60Ω).
   
• Ask for 4-pin female XLR socket and TRS socket installed on the front plate of the signal box (Roc style headphone outputs). They will connect the back L&R XLR outputs to front XLR and TRS sockets and you will be able to drive both - SE and balanced headphones.
  
  Two things to watch out here:
  - There is no "preamp" switch - when you listen to phones, you do not use preamp and vice versa.
  - They have to drill the holes for headphone sockets manually, so minor cosmetic flaws could occur.
   
• You have LCD-2, HE-5 or even HE-6?
  
  Ask for current limit increase. C3 can go safely to 0,35A in class A. Simple math says that this is cca. 3W for HE-5 and over 7W for LCD-2. Class A.
  
  Downside: C3 will run hotter.
   
• This is not modification per se, but still worth mentioning:
  
  If you do not have or do not care for ACSS inputs into your C3 - you will, of course, use XLR or RCA voltage inputs. When you do, you can "tailor" the sound flavor with several voltage input modules that mimic the sound signatures of famous Accuphase, Martin Logan, Marantz and Musical Fidelity machines. Just remember that you have to order your modules in sets of four because your C3 is "balanced" preamp.
  
  
  I always wanted to hear my phones "out of" Accuphase A-100...
  

 
I can hardly wait to scrape up the money for this "Super Phoenix"...

 

[Epoch]

It looks like the C3 would probably be the more logical choice if you want ACSS output.  The real question would be if it sounds better than a Phoenix when using headphones.
 
Either way, it does look like a lust worthy object to use as a preamp/headphone amplifier.

 

[sokolov91]

 
Quote:

The C3 is more transparent and detailed than the Phoenix as a preamp anyway (yes I have tried both). The balanced headphone output from the C3 sounds like a wonderful idea. I will look into it myself.
 
The Acss output of the nfb series dacs makes the modified C3 the best option I would guess. Did Kingwa indicate how the headphone performance would compare to the Phoenix? Clearly if its not as good it gets more complicated.  I would go as high up the dac range as you can afford. Audio-gd gear gets better as it gets more expensive (less compromises and wonderfully over engineered).
 
Regards
 
Macrog

Thanks for the input!

 
Quote:

This is the upgrade I'm saving money for...
 
...and It WILL drive SE headphones, you just need a couple modifications:
 

• Ask for BU-3 output buffer. It is the "strongest" one and can drive headphones with impedance greater than 15Ω (BU-1 > 25 Ω; BU-2 > 60Ω).
   
• Ask for 4-pin female XLR socket and TRS socket installed on the front plate of the signal box (Roc style headphone outputs). They will connect the back L&R XLR outputs to front XLR and TRS sockets and you will be able to drive both - SE and balanced headphones.
  
  Two things to watch out here:
  - There is no "preamp" switch - when you listen to phones, you do not use preamp and vice versa.
  - They have to drill the holes for headphone sockets manually, so minor cosmetic flaws could occur.
   
• You have LCD-2, HE-5 or even HE-6?
  
  Ask for current limit increase. C3 can go safely to 0,35A in class A. Simple math says that this is cca. 3W for HE-5 and over 7W for LCD-2. Class A.
  
  Downside: C3 will run hotter.
   
• This is not modification per se, but still worth mentioning:
  
  If you do not have or do not care for ACSS inputs into your C3 - you will, of course, use XLR or RCA voltage inputs. When you do, you can "tailor" the sound flavor with several voltage input modules that mimic the sound signatures of famous Accuphase, Martin Logan, Marantz and Musical Fidelity machines. Just remember that you have to order your modules in sets of four because your C3 is "balanced" preamp.
  
  
  I always wanted to hear my phones "out of" Accuphase A-100...
  

 
I can hardly wait to scrape up the money for this "Super Phoenix"...

Can't have any inputs or outputs added in the front, and the back its pretty much full. Kingwa said they don't have machines to drill through the front plate as it is too thick.
 
The headphones would have to be hooked up to the XLR jacks already there.
 
I would be getting an ACSS DAC to complement the C3.
 
Current limit is a neat idea, and the LCD-2 can go up to 10W from what Alex has told me... pretty crazy. To be a little hypocritical, the phoenix was already overkill, so added all this stuff tot he C3 is a good idea, but overkill too haha. Slightly less power than a phoenix is still more than enough for any headphone out there, minus STAX .
 
Thanks for the advice though ill see what Kingwa has to say.


 
Quote:

It looks like the C3 would probably be the more logical choice if you want ACSS output.  The real question would be if it sounds better than a Phoenix when using headphones.
 
Either way, it does look like a lust worthy object to use as a preamp/headphone amplifier.

Thanks for the input.
 
 
Looks like if my pocket book is big enough, I will go for the C3. It will be a pain to use with other headphones, but I only really care about getting the max SQ out of my LCD-2 at this point, and setting myself up for speakers in the future.
 
Kingwa said sound quality would be at least on par with the phoenix, so I am not worried about that, just overall convenience and value... so looks like the C3 is the winner so far.