[Currawong]

Quote:

 
While technical specs are a good starting point, sound matters most. Now, I can't determine what "clear" in your statement means (please be specific. if you can provide links that support your comments that would be good. Yeah, pain in the @ss but one has to be responsible for his/her own comments). Bottom line, are you implying that Kingwa and others think the NB7 > REF7 from a sound perspective? (USB audio is not of my concern, thats what  DI is for)

 
When I originally got my Reference 1, Kingwa refused to add an optical input, as he would have had to use a switch, as it would have degraded the sound.  That should give you an idea of the logical behind what has been said above.  I'd indeed go with the 7S + DI + Belden BNC cable if I was starting again and needed USB, though in my case I would have asked him for a DI with optical input instead of USB.
 

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

 
When I originally got my Reference 1, Kingwa refused to add an optical input, as he would have had to use a switch, as it would have degraded the sound.  That should give you an idea of the logical behind what has been said above.  I'd indeed go with the 7S + DI + Belden BNC cable if I was starting again and needed USB, though in my case I would have asked him for a DI with optical input instead of USB.
 

Can't say that a switch would actually do that much though...
 
 
I mean the paper specs don't seem to change from DAC to DAC in the Reference 7 Series. It would seem the technical proficiency of Kingwas DACs forces him to rely on what would theoretically be better, because he has already achieved higher than most companies. If his DACs are that good that he things a switch is going to make a differences, just goes to show how little left he feels has to be done in the design.
 
Of course I have no way of verifying this. 
 
He is a business man though... so he can't be overly honest. Not that he isn't honest, because he seems so and has that reputation. 
 
He has stated he cannot hear the difference between a wall wart and a 75$ psu... but he thinks a switch will make a sonic change? Something doesn't add up entirely.

 

[beeman458]

sokolov91 wrote:
 
He has stated he cannot hear the difference between a wall wart and a 75$ psu... but he thinks a switch will make a sonic change? Something doesn't add up entirely.
 
Working with you in my following, maybe he just doesn't want to mess with his design because it will make it ugly to him and he doesn't want to have to write that.
 
Personal pride?
 
???
 
(Threads like this don't make picking a DAC any easier.)
 

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

sokolov91 wrote:
 
He has stated he cannot hear the difference between a wall wart and a 75$ psu... but he thinks a switch will make a sonic change? Something doesn't add up entirely.
 
Working with you in my following, maybe he just doesn't want to mess with his design because it will make it ugly to him and he doesn't want to have to write that.
 
Personal pride?
 
???
 
(Threads like this don't make picking a DAC any easier.)
 

No i just mean in one sense he is super honest, and in another he makes advice that seems like it could only be hypothetical...
 

 

[haloxt]

A few people have said they thought they heard a difference when removing the optical switch they had custom installed. I had one in my dac9mk3 and when removed it seems like a feeling of glassiness was removed. I have not alternated back and forth to try to verify this and I don't intend to. My guess is that Kingwa has tested it thoroughly and believes the switch has such a degree of degradation that it made sense to him to refuse to put it in his higher end gear. Eventually he did make some multiple digital input implementation that didn't utilize the "cheap switch" in question such as in the multiple input ref 7, but now it seems like the DI is a more cost effective option.

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Can't say that a switch would actually do that much though...
 
 
I mean the paper specs don't seem to change from DAC to DAC in the Reference 7 Series. It would seem the technical proficiency of Kingwas DACs forces him to rely on what would theoretically be better, because he has already achieved higher than most companies. If his DACs are that good that he things a switch is going to make a differences, just goes to show how little left he feels has to be done in the design.
 
Of course I have no way of verifying this. 
 
He is a business man though... so he can't be overly honest. Not that he isn't honest, because he seems so and has that reputation. 
 
He has stated he cannot hear the difference between a wall wart and a 75$ psu... but he thinks a switch will make a sonic change? Something doesn't add up entirely.

It has to do with anything in a proper 75 Ohm connection that isn't 75 Ohms causing reflections, and thus jitter and from that distortion of the sound.  The Reference 1 at the time was his best DAC and he didn't want to compromise his design. When I asked him about other connections, he said he had measured the lowest jitter in BNC, followed by RCA, and much more in AES and optical (this before he sold anything with USB input).
 
As for the wallwart comment, that would be for cheap gear at the bottom of the range, not the top surely. He wont BS you and try and sell you something that wont be of useful benefit, which is why I like the guy. Fair enough criticism though, I see where you are coming from. We do fairly pick apart the technicalities of his gear though and such is absolutely encouraged, but I've always found when I've asked that he has good reasons for his design decisions.

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

It has to do with anything in a proper 75 Ohm connection that isn't 75 Ohms causing reflections, and thus jitter and from that distortion of the sound.  The Reference 1 at the time was his best DAC and he didn't want to compromise his design. When I asked him about other connections, he said he had measured the lowest jitter in BNC, followed by RCA, and much more in AES and optical (this before he sold anything with USB input).
 
As for the wallwart comment, that would be for cheap gear at the bottom of the range, not the top surely. He wont BS you and try and sell you something that wont be of useful benefit, which is why I like the guy. Fair enough criticism though, I see where you are coming from. We do fairly pick apart the technicalities of his gear though and such is absolutely encouraged, but I've always found when I've asked that he has good reasons for his design decisions.

Wasn't really a criticism so much as possibly trying to put the whole "which DAC is better" in perspective. I like the guy myself and haven't bought anything from him yet.
 
I just think a lot of the advice should be seen as more hypothetical than real world at this point. When the measurements are this good, it would seem thats all he can rely on ahaha. He has outdone himself.
 
I am interested in Haloxt's comment though, did he ever figure out how to add multiple connections without hypothetically making the sound any worse?

 

[beeman458]

Anybody have any upgrade suggestions when ordering the NFB-1?
 
???

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

Anybody have any upgrade suggestions when ordering the NFB-1?
 
???

real upgrades? or stuff like what kind of wire to have it redone with?
 
As far as real upgrades go, the DAC is exceptionally well designed and I don't think anything would need to be added. If you want to spend more money, go for the NFB-7.

 

[h.rav]

OCC signal wires, gold IEC socket, and Canare BNC input.

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

OCC signal wires, gold IEC socket, and Canare BNC input.

yeah...
 
As far as real upgrades go you should save your cash and get the NFB-7 or just save your cash period and spend it on music.
 
The Canare BNC input would probably look really cool whenever you put a cable in or take it out though. And the wiring would look nice whenever you took the cover of the DAC off. Considering these times are gonna be like 1% of your total DAC usage, I would follow my above advice.
 
I don't see what the logic on settling for the middle tier option, then spending more money on that product. It's like buying a bic lighter all the time when you could just get 1 Zippo and never buy a bic again (not that I smoke).

 

[borrego]

 
Quote:

Can't say that a switch would actually do that much though...
 
 

It is not only a selector switch, but 10+ additional wires (think of the number of input signal wires required for all the BNC/Coaxle/USB inputs) that required to run from the back of the case to the front panel, and back to the DAC section board at the real in the chasis. I believe it is the wires (picking up additional RF or inteference)  which are causing sound degration.
 
Many amp designers put the selector swtich on the PCB, make it closer to the signal input socket and, connect the selector switch through a metal rod to the knob on front panel. Kingwa can consider doing the same. But Audi-gd's design seems to put the PSU at the front on the chasis which makes a metal rod connection sort of difficult.
 

 

[audio-gd]

 
Quote:

 

It is not only a selector switch, but 10+ additional wires (think of the number of input signal wires required for all the BNC/Coaxle/USB inputs) that required to run from the back of the case to the front panel, and back to the DAC section board at the real in the chasis. I believe it is the wires (picking up additional RF or inteference)  which are causing sound degration.
 
Many amp designers put the selector swtich on the PCB, make it closer to the signal input socket and, connect the selector switch through a metal rod to the knob on front panel. Kingwa can consider doing the same. But Audi-gd's design seems to put the PSU at the front on the chasis which makes a metal rod connection sort of difficult.
 

I must say your thread is enough funny. Even the cheapest Sparrow, the input signal select by very near logic switch, the selector on the front just control the logic switch.

 

[borrego]

Quote:

 


I must say your thread is enough funny. Even the cheapest Sparrow, the input signal select by very near logic switch, the selector on the front just control the logic switch.

Oh.. then I should admit I have misunderstood the implementation as I saw many running wires from the input signal sockets and from the selector switch in the pictures. I thought those are directly connected.

 

[beeman458]

sokolov91 wrote:
 
As far as real upgrades go you should save your cash and get the NFB-7 or just save your cash period and spend it on music.
 
Don't need the NFB-7 as the NFB-1 best serves my purposes and FWIW, this last month I've spent about three hundred dollars on music at the used music store.
 

 
I'm just happy this whole DAC sojourn thingy is coming to an end as I still have to get a total price from Audio-gd and convey the monies all the while re-ripping the audio library that I do have using (EAC) Exact Audio Copy.
 
"Yeah baby!"