[slackerpo]

  @yacobx
 
I was searching the whole forum and now this thread for this specific question and I can say that I have in my position
1) Dragonfly Red
2) Hifime Sabre 9018 (not asynchronous, just the good ol' 96/24 version)
 
Now I know that they both use a sabre DAC - the Dragonfly being the 9016 and the hifime being the 9018km2 if I'm not mistaken but there are noticeable differences in implementation and amplification.
If anyone knows more specific details about these two sabre DACs I'm very curious.
 
Here are my thoughts on what I hear in a quick Showdown Listening session as I type this post.
 
Signal chain
Tidal Hifi streaming - CD quality 44.1khz 16bit
- Amazon basics USB 4 port (AC powered) - cheap but cheerful
- A) Dragonfly (DR)
- B) Hifime Sabre 9018 (HFM)
- Wireworld Pulse Minijack to Minijack 3 ft cable
- Output to Cayin C5
- AKG 7xx (Massdrop)
 
So no blind testing but here are my thoughts.
 
Tracks and albums
Keith Jarretr - For Richer or Poorer
Dave Brubeck - Take Five (album version)
Miles Davis - So What (off of Kind of Blue Legacy version)
Daft Punk - Get Lucky
Lorde - Royals
James Blake - the album James Blake
Dvorak- Ashkenazy, Czech Philharmonic Orchestra, - Sympony No. 9 in E Minor, Op. 95 from the New World: 1 Adagio, Allegro Molto
 
Sound
Dragonfly Red (DR) vs. Hifime Sabre 9018 (HFM)
 
By Genre
In Pop songs -  Daft Punk, Lorde, James Blake (though he's really in another realm, give him a listen, it's fantastic) 
The DR has more detail and more imaging by a hair
The HFM has a slightly easier signature to listen to for a while.  No harshness (the DR has an extremely light harshness) in cymbals or synthesized hits. 
 
Jazz
The HFM has the edge for me.  It lets me get into the intricacies of rhythm and musicality with a bit more bass (subjective tastes) I hear enough detail.
Though in the DR, Keith Jarrett's little musical squealings are just a little bit clearer if that's your thing.  Which I get, it's what makes him, Keith Jarrett. 
 
Classical
Here the DR edges out the HFM, since it has that detail and treble the soundstage feels wider.  Maybe you hear that baton on the stand more clearly.  Or maybe you hear the bows being picked up just a tad more resolved than the HFM. 
 
Overall sound notes
Pros of the Dragonfly
- I find the DR sound to be a bit more airy and less impactful in the bass.  I find detail to be slightly above the HFM. 
- the DR sounds a tiny bit more neutral with a clearer rendition of the highs
- Seems to power the K7xx slightly more easily than the HFM
- Slightly more holographic sound stage, feeling of increased separation (perhaps only perceived) I'm not well versed enough to talk of depth and height but I feel the soundstage a bit wider with the DR. 
 
Cons of the Dragonfly
- Slightly more strident sound in the highs, which can be fatiguing at higher volumes and after a long listening session.
- Driving headphones directly from the Dragonfly gives a bit more treble.
 
Pros of the Hifime Sabre 9018 (HFM)
I keep going back to the Sabre since
- it costs way less
- it renders a slightly more impactful bass and a slightly more neutral mid and high signature which makes continued listening easier on the ears.
- Driving headphones directly from the HFM gives some thickness, some body to the sound while still giving a decent soundstage.
 
Cons of the HFM
Slightly less detail and when I switch from the DR, my immediate thought is that it sounds muddied but powerful.  I'm exaggerating, the difference is extremely subtle but important to state.  In an AB (non-blind) test you will get this feeling.
 
However after less than 30 seconds I find myself slightly preferring the HFM
 
Appearance and Build
The Dragonfly Red is by far the better build. Save perhaps the fragile paint job.  It's solid, the usb cap feels like a proper cap.
The Hifime Sabre 9018 is in an inexpensive but sturdy plastic case with a single LED.
for looks the DR wins hands down.
 
Price
The HFM Sabre 9018 wins hands down.
The Dragonfly red is 2 times the price (used it's maybe $175 if you're lucky as I was)
 
Verdict. 
It really is a toss up based on personal preference. 
If you crave detail and like to jump into the soundstage then the DR is for you.
If you want just enough detail and a more relaxed and bass impactful listening experience than the Hifime Sabre 9018 is for you. The soundstage is there but maybe less clear since the bass is more present. 
After about 5 minutes though (and this is key) I forget which one I have in and I look to see.  So this may say a lot of this comparison.
I'll just end by saying the DR is ever so slightly thinner than the HFM. If you like your sound thin and slightly more dainty, resolved go for the DR
If you like your sound thicker and with a bit of ease and class go for the HFM

That being said if you have an amp with a bass boost (like the Cayin C5) perhaps the difference isn't as obvious.
 
EDIT - Listening to a song like James Blake's Retrograde really highlights the differences.  The DR is detailed and clean whereas I really do find the HFM more impactful and soulful in some way.  The Bass and mid Bass is more present while still giving a fantastic soundstage.  This is a tough comparison to let go of!
 
Hope that helps (probably not!) and please hit me up for clarification as needed. 
Thanks!
Rish

 
nice rundown.

 

[west0ne]

@kiwikozo - If you install Equalizer APO along with the 'Peace Gui' you can get a very competent equalizer, you can control each channel separately which I'm pretty sure will solve your imbalance issue. It will give much finer control than the sliders you find in the audio section so would probably be a better solution. EQ APO & Peace are both free and available from Sourceforge.

 

[kiwikozo]

  @kiwikozo - If you install Equalizer APO along with the 'Peace Gui' you can get a very competent equalizer, you can control each channel separately which I'm pretty sure will solve your imbalance issue. It will give much finer control than the sliders you find in the audio section so would probably be a better solution. EQ APO & Peace are both free and available from Sourceforge.

Thank you! I will definitely try it out, will be handy to have. I really believe the imbalance is only due to the earpads, and the new replacements which are supposed to be more comfortable and virtually identical sound-wise are arriving on Saturday.

 

[nirudhap]

I will try some high def files on my iPhone 5S, running 10.02, to see if I get this. On 44.1kHz 16 bit content plays great.

 

[Mboom]

Anybody got a comparison of both dragonfly black/red and the monoprice $60 model ?

 

[thamasha69]

  @yacobx
 
I was searching the whole forum and now this thread for this specific question and I can say that I have in my position
1) Dragonfly Red
2) Hifime Sabre 9018 (not asynchronous, just the good ol' 96/24 version)
 
Now I know that they both use a sabre DAC - the Dragonfly being the 9016 and the hifime being the 9018km2 if I'm not mistaken but there are noticeable differences in implementation and amplification.
If anyone knows more specific details about these two sabre DACs I'm very curious.
 
Here are my thoughts on what I hear in a quick Showdown Listening session as I type this post.
 
Signal chain
Tidal Hifi streaming - CD quality 44.1khz 16bit
- Amazon basics USB 4 port (AC powered) - cheap but cheerful
- A) Dragonfly (DR)
- B) Hifime Sabre 9018 (HFM)
- Wireworld Pulse Minijack to Minijack 3 ft cable
- Output to Cayin C5
- AKG 7xx (Massdrop)
 
So no blind testing but here are my thoughts.
 
Tracks and albums
Keith Jarretr - For Richer or Poorer
Dave Brubeck - Take Five (album version)
Miles Davis - So What (off of Kind of Blue Legacy version)
Daft Punk - Get Lucky
Lorde - Royals
James Blake - the album James Blake
Dvorak- Ashkenazy, Czech Philharmonic Orchestra, - Sympony No. 9 in E Minor, Op. 95 from the New World: 1 Adagio, Allegro Molto
 
Sound
Dragonfly Red (DR) vs. Hifime Sabre 9018 (HFM)
 
By Genre
In Pop songs -  Daft Punk, Lorde, James Blake (though he's really in another realm, give him a listen, it's fantastic) 
The DR has more detail and more imaging by a hair
The HFM has a slightly easier signature to listen to for a while.  No harshness (the DR has an extremely light harshness) in cymbals or synthesized hits. 
 
Jazz
The HFM has the edge for me.  It lets me get into the intricacies of rhythm and musicality with a bit more bass (subjective tastes) I hear enough detail.
Though in the DR, Keith Jarrett's little musical squealings are just a little bit clearer if that's your thing.  Which I get, it's what makes him, Keith Jarrett. 
 
Classical
Here the DR edges out the HFM, since it has that detail and treble the soundstage feels wider.  Maybe you hear that baton on the stand more clearly.  Or maybe you hear the bows being picked up just a tad more resolved than the HFM. 
 
Overall sound notes
Pros of the Dragonfly
- I find the DR sound to be a bit more airy and less impactful in the bass.  I find detail to be slightly above the HFM. 
- the DR sounds a tiny bit more neutral with a clearer rendition of the highs
- Seems to power the K7xx slightly more easily than the HFM
- Slightly more holographic sound stage, feeling of increased separation (perhaps only perceived) I'm not well versed enough to talk of depth and height but I feel the soundstage a bit wider with the DR. 
 
Cons of the Dragonfly
- Slightly more strident sound in the highs, which can be fatiguing at higher volumes and after a long listening session.
- Driving headphones directly from the Dragonfly gives a bit more treble.
 
Pros of the Hifime Sabre 9018 (HFM)
I keep going back to the Sabre since
- it costs way less
- it renders a slightly more impactful bass and a slightly more neutral mid and high signature which makes continued listening easier on the ears.
- Driving headphones directly from the HFM gives some thickness, some body to the sound while still giving a decent soundstage.
 
Cons of the HFM
Slightly less detail and when I switch from the DR, my immediate thought is that it sounds muddied but powerful.  I'm exaggerating, the difference is extremely subtle but important to state.  In an AB (non-blind) test you will get this feeling.
 
However after less than 30 seconds I find myself slightly preferring the HFM
 
Appearance and Build
The Dragonfly Red is by far the better build. Save perhaps the fragile paint job.  It's solid, the usb cap feels like a proper cap.
The Hifime Sabre 9018 is in an inexpensive but sturdy plastic case with a single LED.
for looks the DR wins hands down.
 
Price
The HFM Sabre 9018 wins hands down.
The Dragonfly red is 2 times the price (used it's maybe $175 if you're lucky as I was)
 
Verdict. 
It really is a toss up based on personal preference. 
If you crave detail and like to jump into the soundstage then the DR is for you.
If you want just enough detail and a more relaxed and bass impactful listening experience than the Hifime Sabre 9018 is for you. The soundstage is there but maybe less clear since the bass is more present. 
After about 5 minutes though (and this is key) I forget which one I have in and I look to see.  So this may say a lot of this comparison.
I'll just end by saying the DR is ever so slightly thinner than the HFM. If you like your sound thin and slightly more dainty, resolved go for the DR
If you like your sound thicker and with a bit of ease and class go for the HFM

That being said if you have an amp with a bass boost (like the Cayin C5) perhaps the difference isn't as obvious.
 
EDIT - Listening to a song like James Blake's Retrograde really highlights the differences.  The DR is detailed and clean whereas I really do find the HFM more impactful and soulful in some way.  The Bass and mid Bass is more present while still giving a fantastic soundstage.  This is a tough comparison to let go of!
 
Hope that helps (probably not!) and please hit me up for clarification as needed. 
Thanks!
Rish

Thank you much for this. I tested my Dad's DF Black against DF Red last week at RMAF and certainly felt the Red was a bit bright for my tastes. I had been eyeballing the HifiMeDIY 9018 over the last year and your comparison is pushing me closer to getting one.

 

[Rish732]

Thank you much for this. I tested my Dad's DF Black against DF Red last week at RMAF and certainly felt the Red was a bit bright for my tastes. I had been eyeballing the HifiMeDIY 9018 over the last year and your comparison is pushing me closer to getting one.

You're welcome. I'll be selling my dragonfly red shortly and sticking with the hifime. It's a great piece of kit, the red, but the hifime has the sound I'm looking for. For sure!

 

[Nirvana1000]

Are there any builds of Poweramp that work with the DF?

 

[jegnyc]

Any iPhone users notice a performance improvement with the release of IOS 10? With iOS 9, the DFR would get all kinds of pops and blips from my
6S and I'm wondering if thats been fixed in the new OS.

I've had the problem with my 6S. iOS 10 did not solve it. Read my prior posts in this thread for details. For me, switching to the USB-3 CCK solved the problem.

 

[pkcpga]

I've had the problem with my 6S. iOS 10 did not solve it. Read my prior posts in this thread for details. For me, switching to the USB-3 CCK solved the problem.

Lucky you the new cck3 did not solve the clicking or popping sound with my iPhone 7plus and iOS 10.02. But this seems to be a common issue, hopefully AQ will have an update to become better compatible with new iPhones. And I'm guessing it's a AQ issue not Apple since my other portable dac/amp does not have the clicking popping issue. Might be because the DF is not an Apple approved device.

 

[jegnyc]

Lucky you the new cck3 did not solve the clicking or popping sound with my iPhone 7plus and iOS 10.02. But this seems to be a common issue, hopefully AQ will have an update to become better compatible with new iPhones. And I'm guessing it's a AQ issue not Apple since my other portable dac/amp does not have the clicking popping issue. Might be because the DF is not an Apple approved device.

Sounds like we may suffering from different issues with similar symptoms. As I said previously, I don't think mine is an Audioquest problem as both my Dragonflies exhibited it, but only with my 6S (running iOS 9 and 10). They both worked with my 5S (running iOS 9) and my two iPads.

 

[chboehm]

Lucky you the new cck3 did not solve the clicking or popping sound with my iPhone 7plus and iOS 10.02. But this seems to be a common issue, hopefully AQ will have an update to become better compatible with new iPhones. And I'm guessing it's a AQ issue not Apple since my other portable dac/amp does not have the clicking popping issue. Might be because the DF is not an Apple approved device.

I having occasional skips/jitter/squeals when using DF Red with CCK hooked up to iPhone6 but do not have nearly as many issues when using the CCK which can also charge phone at same time (which I use in car). Just ordered the jitterbug to see if that fixes these issues. I had similar issues going from Surface 3 running Roon to Schiit Modi Multibit. Hooked up the Schiit Wyrd and poof....problem gone.

 

[GerMan]

Need some help please.
 
Looked into the device description of my Dragonfly in my Windows 7 PC and pushed button "deinstall driver" due to problems with JRiver (someone gave the advice which obviously was no good though).
 
Result was that Dragonfly works but  device manager shows jellow exclamation mark an "unknown device". "Install new driver automatically" lead to no result. Same Problem occurs if you want to install Dragonfly to another USB port which leads to tons of problems. Although not new to PCs, I'm stuck somehow. How can I get the PC to recognize the DAC as "Audioquest Dragonfly" again?
Somehow had the idea to reset all USB ports somehow so that devices plugged into PC are recognized automatically again.
 
Any hints?
 
Greetings, GerMan  

 

[zolom]

Had a chance today to try the DFR with my Samsung s7e and SE846.I had to push the volume to the maximum to hear decently (used Poweramp). The DFB, sounds great at 75% volume.

 

[0rangutan]

My DFR also suffered from frequent clicks while used with my iPhone 6S, iOS10.1 betas and CCK (the narrow one).

I am fond of the DFR and really prefer its portability over the Mojo, but it's all for nothing if it's not listenable unfortunately.

I have now sold the DFR and am going back to the Mojo.