[zolkis]

Does the Stax system sound 14 times better than the Dali IO-12?
The law of diminishing returns clearly works here.

That is true. However, people might say that a good e-stat system sounds more than 14x better than the IO-12, it sounds 1000 times better in many respects, actually infinitely better, if they do something the IO-12 does not. That is, the difference is not numerically comparable, it's a qualitative difference, for which some people are willing to pay 14 times more. I am not trying to rationalize it, but that's just how things are.
But the temptation of convenience and comfort of usage might overwrite all the above, hence likely there are people for whom the IO-12 (or similar) is the last headphone they need (and not because they are close to the grave) . But wanting is a different game.

 

[madFloyd]

I love my IO-12, but I don’t understand the comparisons with electrostats... When I want to really try and grasp what happens in the music, I still feel the need to switch from the IO-12 to the HD800S. And last weekend I listened to the Stax SR-X9000 for some hours. I’m afraid the difference between HD800S and X9000 is about as large as between IO-12 and HD800S. But it seems to me that all three share a similar tonality, and the width of the soundstage is at least comparable. But, well, sadly one can hear so much more with the Stax flagship electrostat.

When I mentioned electrostats in my post above, I was not thinking headphones so much as actual speakers... and I was comparing the IO-12 to the Bathys in that respect.

To add further context, I have no experience with Seinheiser other than H-650s (which I don't like at all) and I've never heard Stax.

 

[Rockin_Zombie]

Went on a hifi bender after purchasing the io-12s. Been listening to a lot of bass heavy headphones (Empys and Z1R) and now I'm kinda digging the "bass" mode on the io-12s when commuting. Screw critical listening give me all the boom

I haven't heard the other high end ANC headphones, but compared to Sonys the Dalis sound BIG. Even compared to the io-6s, they sound way bigger. In the bass mode (ANC on) these get 70% there Soundstage, bass, and resolution-wise compared to the Z1Rs.

 

[angelom]

Everything is correct, but:
Stax SR-X9000 - 7 200 €
Stax SRM-T8000 - 6 500 €
Streamer / Dac EverSolo DMP-A6 ME - 1 300 €
Total - 15 000 €

Dali IO-12 - 1 000 €

14 times the difference in price.
Does the Stax system sound 14 times better than the Dali IO-12?
The law of diminishing returns clearly works here.

And here you're only speaking about sound quality. For 1000 EUR with the iO-12 you also having a wireless option (no cables!), ANC and Transparency modes, USB-C to USB-C connection, transportability, and EXCELLENT playback controls on the headphone.

That is true. However, people might say that a good e-stat system sounds more than 14x better than the IO-12, it sounds 1000 times better in many respects, actually infinitely better, if they do something the IO-12 does not. That is, the difference is not numerically comparable, it's a qualitative difference, for which some people are willing to pay 14 times more.

I'm sorry but "some people" saying that is sounding 14 times better is a tremendously tremendous exaggeration, and even more exaggeration saying that is "1000 times better in many respects", even if you qualifying your comment by saying that "the difference is not numerically comparable, it's a qualitative difference".

The curious thing is that some people, I'm sure, will thinking that iO-12 (or even other more cheap alternative!) is sounding better, for them, than the ultra expensive top of line Stax headphone and its components for obtaining good synergy --- just like someone recently saying that he is preferring the PX8 to the iO-12.

What @Dalmonegrig saying is 100% true -- this is the law of diminishing returns.

 

[hutzelmeier]

That is true. However, people might say that a good e-stat system sounds more than 14x better than the IO-12, it sounds 1000 times better in many respects, actually infinitely better, if they do something the IO-12 does not. That is, the difference is not numerically comparable, it's a qualitative difference, for which some people are willing to pay 14 times more. I am not trying to rationalize it, but that's just how things are.
But the temptation of convenience and comfort of usage might overwrite all the above, hence likely there are people for whom the IO-12 (or similar) is the last headphone they need (and not because they are close to the grave) . But wanting is a different game.

Well put! My dream would be a Stax SR-X9000 for 1000 Euro with a wireless option and 30 h battery life. I’m almost sure that we’ll have something like that in about 10 years (probably not e-stat, though). But I also agree that for some people, some circumstances, and some music, the resolution and multiple soundstage layers of the X9000 is simply too much information, detail that is not needed but rather is disturbing. But I found it impressive to listen to a Bruckner symphony where some parts are usually just a wall of sound with my headphones, and with the X9000 I could hear the single instruments. Or at least more instruments than with the HD800S.

Should I wait until I can afford the X9000 plus some not-too-expensive amplifier (might take a while...) or buy a cheaper e-stat?

 

[musingclouds]

On another random note, at what percentage does everyone choose to charge their Dalis? As it’s in increments of 10% a bit harder to track the 40% to 80% that were advised to do typically for lithium ion

 

[streetbeat]

On another random note, at what percentage does everyone choose to charge their Dalis? As it’s in increments of 10% a bit harder to track the 40% to 80% that were advised to do typically for lithium ion

When them say "please charge". I just put fully charged 5909s on instead and the game continues

 

[musingclouds]

When them say "please charge". I just put fully charged 5909s on instead and the game continues

Damn I’m jealous

 

[streetbeat]

Damn I’m jealous

The good thing about few devices used in cycle is battery health. I've been having Momentum 3s for 3 years, they still were holding 18 hrs with ANC on (Sennheiser claimed 17 hrs out of the box) when I sold them. Good for you, good for planet.

 

[musingclouds]

The good thing about few devices used in cycle is battery health. I've been having Momentum 3s for 3 years, they still were holding 18 hrs with ANC on (Sennheiser claimed 17 hrs out of the box) when I sold them. Good for you, good for planet.

One thing I did like about the Dalis and the 5909 is that you’re not left with an expensive paperweight when the battery dies.

ML is a bit more finicky with battery replacement policy though

 

[streetbeat]

One thing I did like about the Dalis and the 5909 is that you’re not left with an expensive paperweight when the battery dies.

True! Actually, also applies to M3s, however I tried them via analog cable just once for test

 

[polymathic]

When them say "please charge". I just put fully charged 5909s on instead and the game continues

Funny I am just now contemplating taking pictures and putting my 5909 for sale... but still feel a certain attachment to them. And a nice backup. And they are exceptionally clear for voices on calls/zoom. Then again I am receiving my new Fujifilm X100VI tomorrow--should probably sell them.

 

[streetbeat]

Funny I am just now contemplating taking pictures and putting my 5909 for sale... but still feel a certain attachment to them. And a nice backup. And they are exceptionally clear for voices on calls/zoom. Then again I am receiving my new Fujifilm X100VI tomorrow--should probably sell them.

Chances you'll buy them again in a couple of months (not pointing to @angelom)?

 

[polymathic]

If I buy another set of high end BT headphones it will be the T+A.

 

[musingclouds]

Funny I am just now contemplating taking pictures and putting my 5909 for sale... but still feel a certain attachment to them. And a nice backup. And they are exceptionally clear for voices on calls/zoom. Then again I am receiving my new Fujifilm X100VI tomorrow--should probably sell them.

That’s a fun camera; I had older iterations.

5909s were my preferred buy until the Dalis came out. Timing was perfect