[akf🎧]

I’m new here as in new member, but have been reading posts on and off over the past few years. Enjoying reading this thread and found it helpful as part of my research into a new purchase.

I have come from the original B&W PX headphones, which I’ve had since they were launched and still going strong.

Looking for a new pair of wireless headphones I tried the usual suspects (5909s, Bathys, PX8) in store before buying the iO-12s. Had them for just over two weeks and have been forming my opinion of them.

Mostly I use headphones at home, I WFH and listen to music most days at my desk. Wireless is for me as they offer freedom and versatility. They need to be comfortable, the PX were ok, but the 12s are head and shoulders above. More comfortable than the others I tried too.

I’ve found that because of the audio quality I can listen to music at a lower volume. They also have enough range for times I fancy cranking it up. There seems to be no sound leakage, even when the volume is high. My wife could not hear my music when stood next to me. I like this since I’ve always been a little paranoid when travelling, about being that anti social person.

99% of the time I’m listening with ANC off in Hi-Fi streaming from my iPhone 15 Pro Max. Sound quality, detail, space, bass and all round presentation is spot on for my ears.

Plan to try USB C to USB C with my iPhone or MacBook, but wireless is really good sounding.

This week I traveled for work and on a long train trip I switched ANC on. I know better audio quality headphones do not compete with the best ANC ones, but the ANC on the 12s took away the drone of the train when listening to music. So I’m happy with the ANC performance for travelling. No sound leakage, so I relaxed and enjoyed the music.

Using the 12s have reinvigorated my experience of music, sure I’m listening to my usual stuff, but I’m back to seeking out new artists, to find new sounds.

I’m not sure perfect exists, particularly when tech moves on all the time, but these, for me, go a long way towards being perfect.

 

[Dalmonegrig]

A new review: https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/dali-io-12-review/
Sadly, an Apple Lightning adapter didn’t get the headphones recognized as a valid output by an iPhone.

Unfortunately, I also was unable to directly output a signal to the Dali iO-12 via a standard cable (USB - C to Lightning) from the iPhone 8 Plus.

99% of the time I’m listening with ANC off in Hi-Fi streaming from my iPhone 15 Pro Max. Sound quality, detail, space, bass and all round presentation is spot on for my ears.

Plan to try USB C to USB C with my iPhone or MacBook, but wireless is really good sounding.

Great, please let us know if you manage to do the same via a standard cable (USB - C to Lightning) but with iPhone 15 Pro Max.

But, there is also good news!
I was able to directly output a signal to the Dali iO-12 via a standard cable (USB-C to USB-C) from a Samsung S21 phone. The configuration is below.
Roon Nucleus Plus (Qobuz) => Samsung S21 USB-C => DALI iO-12.
Samsung S21 was presented as a Roon Remote and a portable player with direct digital signal output to the DALI iO-12.
As a result, I got excellent sound quality!
The sound quality is comparable to a portable system (player + headphones) in the 2-3K price range.

Maybe this will help you

 

[angelom]

Unfortunately, I also was unable to directly output a signal to the Dali iO-12 via a standard cable (USB - C to Lightning) from the iPhone 8 Plus.

This is typical with all iPhones (before the iPhone 15s) with all, or the majority, of ANC/BT headphones, where you can't simply using a USB-C to lighting cable. In many cases is necessary using the Apple camera adapter for the iPhone but even this isn't always a guarantee that this will working with all ANC/BT headphones.

Great, please let us know if you manage to do the same via a standard cable (USB - C to Lightning) but with iPhone 15 Pro Max.

The isn't possible because the iPhone 15 Pro/Pro Max don't have lighting connection anymore, now they have a USB-C connection.

But, there is also good news!
I was able to directly output a signal to the Dali iO-12 via a standard cable (USB-C to USB-C) from a Samsung S21 phone. The configuration is below.

I have the recent last iPhone 15 Pro and I can confirming that yes, you can using a USB-C to USB-C cable for connecting directly to the iPhone and is working perfectly. Is also possible using the original iO-12 USB-C to USB-A cable but you need using a USB-A to USB-C adapter for connecting to the iPhone 15 Pro -- I have an Apple USB-A to USB-C adapter for using with the iO-12 cable and this is working perfectly.

 

[Dalmonegrig]

I have the recent last iPhone 15 Pro and I can confirming that yes, you can using a USB-C to USB-C cable for connecting directly to the iPhone and is working perfectly.

Well, this information could tip my scale towards the Apple ecosystem.
Thank you.

 

[zolkis]

The mid bass bloating in the PX8 is making the sound very often muddy and clearly affecting negatively the midrange, except if you're using the PX8's EQ for lowering the bass that helping in, but isn't solving completely, this problem.

Bass boom is also a problem with the IO-12 in my perceived experience (not for muddying, but for masking), and the type of that bass boom reminded me to the Px8 as well, even though that obviously has even more bass boom. Both are manageable with EQ, fortunately.

IMHO Dali should have assigned different bass EQ for the "Hifi" setting. I think the "Hifi" should be EQ'd with less 60-100 Hz boom and a bit lifted 20-30 Hz range (to achieve a linear downward sloping FR). The "Bass" and "Normal" modes would also be approximately linear downward sloping FR (with some corrections for distortions) but with slightly different angles. I don't know why they chose it this way, and I hate that you cannot assign yourself the EQ for these modes in an application. They'd need the app anyway for FW updates - now you can do none of these. Fail.

I will need at least one more week for running in the IO-12, then I will measure them. Curious how it would look vs. wired headphones.
Already there is a tiny bit of improvement in the sound. If it will move more in that direction, I could live with the compromise. Very good for a noise canceling headphone.

Also, if the pads would sag a bit, it might be enough to fix the boom. I wish the ear pads were as soft as e.g. with the Sennheiser Momentum 4 (but there the bass boom is unbearable).

 

[Dalmonegrig]

Of interest is the performance of Dali iO-12 with direct connection to devices such as Streamer Matrix Audio Element S (iFi audio NEO Stream) via USB-C connector to I2S, as well as comparison of sound quality of Dali iO-12 when connecting USB-C => I2S and USB-C => USB- C (A/B).

Matrix Audio Element S

iFi Audio NEO Stream

 

[angelom]

Bass boom is also a problem with the IO-12 in my perceived experience (not for muddying, but for masking), and the type of that bass boom reminded me to the Px8 as well, even though that obviously has even more bass boom. Both are manageable with EQ, fortunately.

IMHO Dali should have assigned different bass EQ for the "Hifi" setting. I think the "Hifi" should be EQ'd with less 60-100 Hz boom and a bit lifted 20-30 Hz range (to achieve a linear downward sloping FR). The "Bass" and "Normal" modes would also be approximately linear downward sloping FR (with some corrections for distortions) but with slightly different angles. I don't know why they chose it this way, and I hate that you cannot assign yourself the EQ for these modes in an application. They'd need the app anyway for FW updates - now you can do none of these. Fail.

I will need at least one more week for running in the IO-12, then I will measure them. Curious how it would look vs. wired headphones.
Already there is a tiny bit of improvement in the sound. If it will move more in that direction, I could live with the compromise. Very good for a noise canceling headphone.

Also, if the pads would sag a bit, it might be enough to fix the boom. I wish the ear pads were as soft as e.g. with the Sennheiser Momentum 4 (but there the bass boom is unbearable).

I think we must agreeing that we don't agreeing, and this is perfectly fine, of course.

I really think the iO-12 is not the correct headphone for you. This is the impression I have from reading your comments in last few days of the iO-12. Maybe waiting for Sennheiser or Sony releasing a high-end ANC 'audiophile' headphone is a good idea for you? I'm sure they will doing this more soon than more late. Only a suggestion.

 

[angelom]

The Grudge is indeed a tough track, gotta give that a listen on IO-12. This hobby is addictive

From the same album you must trying the hypnotising track 'Reflection' (my favourite track) -- very excellent reproduction by the iO-12. BUT, I really must insisting that you try listening or downloading the "Apple Digital Master" version of this album (better sounding than the original release or the YouTube version below). If you don't know Apple Digital Masters (previously the name is "Mastered for iTunes"), you must investigating what is this if you caring about better sound quality (this isn't available for all albums in the Apple library, by the way).

 

[zolkis]

I think we must agreeing that we don't agreeing, and this is perfectly fine, of course.

I really think the iO-12 is not the correct headphone for you. This is the impression I have from reading your comments in last few days of the iO-12. Maybe waiting for Sennheiser or Sony releasing a high-end ANC 'audiophile' headphone is a good idea for you? I'm sure they will doing this more soon than more late. Only a suggestion.

I will be the judge of whether the IO-12 is for me or not, and whether I will wait for other headphones, or not -- or whether I go for the T+A ST or other existing product.
For the moment I am sharing impressions about the IO-12, just as any other members of the forum.
No, I won't go away . I don't intend to troll, either, just talk about experiences, as balanced as I can.

There is one more possible explanation for non-uniform experiences here (and elsewhere, too).
Looking at the musical genres shared in this group recently, those genres seem to tolerate better the extra bass, or even sound better with that.
I listen more to instrumental, jazz, indie, etc, in addition I am sensitive to instruments timbre, therefore maybe I am more sensitive about bass boom (and other audio traits) than many other people.

When I say Dali could have done better, I am aware of cost constraints, but also about the "Minimum Viable Product" strategies in play (release the minimum possible quality that will be accepted in the price bracket, then add features or improve in next iterations, as the competition and consumer expectations ramp up). It's business, not only passion.

I don't think anyone should take differing opinions as attacks, or feel the urge to dismiss views and reviews that don't fit the preferred narrative. The forum can contain both.
Nevertheless, I've been saying that my opinions so far have been with new headphones, and based on other people's opinions, the experience should improve over time.
Peace.

 

[angelom]

I will be the judge of whether the IO-12 is for me or not, and whether I will wait for other headphones, or not -- or whether I go for the T+A ST or other existing product.
For the moment I am sharing impressions about the IO-12, just as any other members of the forum.
No, I won't go away . I don't intend to troll, either, just talk about experiences, as balanced as I can.

Is COMPLETELY obvious you will making a final decision about keeping the iO-12 or not. Is not necessary using a smiley face emoticon for minimising/hiding and transmitting your strong (negative) reaction about my comments. I know your intention isn't trolling. And even if you don't decide keeping the iO-12, you can, of course, posting here as much as you like in the future. I personally never having a problem with this. All my comments, AND my final suggestion specially, are genuine, and NOT with the intention of making you going away.

There is one more possible explanation for non-uniform experiences here (and elsewhere, too).
Looking at the musical genres shared in this group recently, those genres seem to tolerate better the extra bass, or even sound better with that.
I listen more to instrumental, jazz, indie, etc, in addition I am sensitive to instruments timbre, therefore maybe I am more sensitive about bass boom (and other audio traits) than many other people.

For your information, I listen to A LOT of classical music and sufficient jazz too (but less), and for me timbre is a VERY important aspect about sound reproduction.

I don't think anyone should take differing opinions as attacks, or feel the urge to dismiss views and reviews that don't fit the preferred narrative. The forum can contain both.

For me differing opinions aren't a problem AT ALL. In fact, I think is good having this for avoiding typical fanboyism that we see in soooo many threads -- maybe you don't reading all my posts in this or others threads??. BUT I, personally, will responding when someone is saying something that I think is (very/obvioiusly) wrong or (very) strange, like your comment about the iO-12 being "far more boomy than the TH900" (!!).

And I, personally, don't dismiss views or reviews that don't saying what I like, like you're saying, but my long experience is telling me that you must look very, VERY carefully for genuinely good, credible --as objectively as possible-- reviews, specially from publications that advertising so many products, where a conflict of interest is too obvious and where unprofessionalism is so common. Normal views, from average users, even when they're great and agreeing with my opinions, for me meaning not much if they're not giving more context, experience with others headphones, types of music testing (mastering quality, etc), etc., etc., etc.

 

[hutzelmeier]

I'm sorry saying that for many, many years I always have a problem with the music of Rush, a band I never liking don't matter how much I trying making the effort for this (and at least 2 good friends insisting I try and try and try again. I have a similar, but not so bad problem, with ELP or Yes.)

That’s funny, I’m also quite a prog rock fan, but like you, I never fell in love with Rush and Yes, although I’ve tried several times ...

 

[angelom]

That’s funny, I’m also quite a prog rock fan, but like you, I never fell in love with Rush and Yes, although I’ve tried several times ...

Actually I'm not a big fan of 'prog' rock because too often the music of that genre I finding very boring and/or self-indulgent (Google translation always helpful!), with little genuine musical substance. King Crimson is one of few exceptions in that genre that I think have some very excellent music. I don't know if Tool is 'prog' rock (maybe 'prog metal'?), but I think is an excellent band. Same for a lot of Radiohead's music (except the first album), but I think Radiohead people calling their music 'alternative', a very vague word; similar with Talk Talk's last 3 albums.

Here is a song that is sounding phenomenal with the iO-12:

 

[hutzelmeier]

Actually I'm not a big fan of 'prog' rock because too often the music of that genre I finding very boring and/or self-indulgent (Google translation always helpful!), with little genuine musical substance. King Crimson is one of few exceptions in that genre that I think have some very excellent music. I don't know if Tool is 'prog' rock (maybe 'prog metal'?), but I think is an excellent band. Same for a lot of Radiohead's music (except the first album), but I think Radiohead people calling their music 'alternative', a very vague word; similar with Talk Talk's last 3 albums.

Ok, maybe I’m not a prog rock fan either. I agree to what you say about self-indulgent (for me, another example of that attitude would be Dream Theater). But I’m a big fan of the four bands you mentioned. There are also prog rock artists who refuse being called prog rock, like Steven Wilson. And then there’s Pink Floyd, but maybe that’s not rock at all, it’s more like classical music to me. Actually, Nick Mason celebrates his 80th birthday today – listen how in the attached he’s playing slightly behind the beat. It’s also a good listen on the IO-12. Interestingly, in the part starting starting from 9:00, with the synthesizers and bass, I thought this is one of the (rare?) occasions where ANC modus sounds much better to me, or more to what I’m used to when listening to the piece via HD800S or loudspeakers, than ANC off.

 

[polymathic]

There is one more possible explanation for non-uniform experiences here (and elsewhere, too).

I think that is true. I mostly listen to classical and jazz, and there is the occasional track with some music where there is a bit of a bass veil, but in return you get a superior soundstage and convincing separation (comparing to the 5909). Listening to Brahms Cello & Piano sonatas (Bylsma/Orkis), you have proper left/right separation, but with 5909 the instruments seem to be stacked vertically. On some solo piano recordings, I can hear the separation between right and left hand with ease. And whatever I listen to, there is so much more of a feeling of listening to speakers than with the 5909, and no auditory fatigue. All this to say that the occasional "bass veil" is a good tradeoff IMO.

@Angelgome has been pointing out how well IO-12 will make difficult/poor recordings more musical. I have relistened to a bunch of historical recordings that were not enjoyable before, but interesting. With the IO-12 they become more musical, and no longer feel like they are coming from a distant tin can (5909 are particularly ill suited for old tinny recordings, making them grating). I relistened to old recordings of Rachmaninoff playing himself or conducting, to Beethoven's 5th Symphony conducted by Toscanini with NBC Symphony Orchestra (19050), to the legendary Busch Quartet recording of Beethoven's 14th String Quartet (1947). Old jazz like early Louis Armstrong and Charlie Parker are also improved.

 

[musingclouds]

On the subject of music streamers, any suggestions for an affordable one? This closet hobby is now getting expensive I just bought a Sony ZX707 DAP to pair with the Dalis