[Svatopluk]

  This is my next Dynamic phone.

 You're definitely in for a treat. In my opinion, the T1 - Gen.2 and the HDVA - 600 are made for each other.

 

[HiAudio]

 
 You're definitely in for a treat. In my opinion, the T1 - Gen.2 and the HDVA - 600 are made for each other.

 
Really? That's great

 

[technobear]

I'll say it again for the sake of talking to myself, but the issue here was a coloration problem of the headphones themselves, not an under-amping problem.

Given that you are the only one out of many tens of thousands who has this issue, I suspect you are hearing the colourations caused by your cheap amp/dac.

The T1 is capable of playing with amp/dacs costing thousands and sounds utterly sublime with no midrange issues.

The dt880 is simply masking the truth as so many budget headphones do. It's no good feeding crap into the T1. It doesn't editorialise.

 

[SSL443]

Given that you are the only one out of many tens of thousands who has this issue, I suspect you are hearing the colourations caused by your cheap amp/dac.

The T1 is capable of playing with amp/dacs costing thousands and sounds utterly sublime with no midrange issues.

The dt880 is simply masking the truth as so many budget headphones do. It's no good feeding crap into the T1. It doesn't editorialise.

 
The coloration is on the order of 3dB or more across the transition from 1kHz down to 500Hz. There is no way that a source with a flat response would suddenly exhibit that kind of coloration when presented with a higher impedance load. Further, there is no way that a headphone, particularly a flat-sounding headphone like the DT 880, could mask that kind of coloration. Finally, the coloration went away when I swapped my spare DT 880 pads onto the T1. The coloration was NOT caused by the amp, DAC, computer, cables, mp3 compression, or cosmic radiation. You get it? I'm not sure how else I can state the facts to make it more clear.

 

[technobear]

The coloration was NOT caused by the amp, DAC, computer, cables, mp3 compression, or cosmic radiation. You get it? I'm not sure how else I can state the facts to make it more clear.

No, I don't get it.

What measuring setup are you using to determine the size and shape of this 'colouration'.

BTW the dt880 pads are not suitable for the T1.



:rolleyes:

 

[SSL443]

No, I don't get it.

What measuring setup are you using to determine the size and shape of this 'colouration'.

BTW the dt880 pads are not suitable for the T1.

 
Kinda seems like you're not having a discussion in good faith here, with that little face and putting coloration in scare quotes. Whatever.
 
All my conclusions are based on listening. I never said the DT 880 pads were "suitable" for the T1. I just said that using them eliminated the low mid-range coloration. And for your information, early versions of the original T1 shipped with pads identical to the DT 880, except in black - EDT 990 VB.
 
Let me know if you're still not getting it and I'll slow down so you can understand better.
 

 

[technobear]

All my conclusions are based on listening.

Ah, now I get it. You just don't like the sound of the T1 and are looking for a headphone with a more V-shaped response.

 

[SSL443]

Ah, now I get it. You just don't like the sound of the T1 and are looking for a headphone with a more V-shaped response.

 
Um, no. The DT 880 ain't v-shaped and it sounds fine. This is not like a subjective thing. I got a grand piano sitting in the living room. I can hear what a real instrument sounds like at any time. I've been to a bunch of those live piano recitals, and have been playing and studying for years.
 
Piano in real life doesn't sound like the T1, which sounds honky and boxy through the middle frequencies. It's very jarring listening to a recording of a piano and having the timbre and apparent placement of the instrument completely change when the music crosses into the mid-range. In fact the problem frequency range really only spans a couple of octaves, and from my listening it clearly sticks out relative to the upper-mids and highs. Can that really be called flat, or the alternative v-shaped? No.
 
Have you ever even actually looked at a graph of the original T1 response, and like, used your brain? The response is clearly concave down through the frequency range I'm talking about, when it should be concave up, or at least flat. The gen 2 T1 is even more boosted, and so is even less neutral, as I heard.
 
Like I said, you're just being disingenuous here, probably because you're taking this criticism personally for whatever reason, which I don't care about. Clearly we're not convincing each other of anything so why bother talking about it. Lemme know if you don't agree.

 

[technobear]

The only thing I object to, for no particular reason than preventing the spread of disinformation, is that you have seriously maligned a very good headphone for doing exactly what it is designed to do and exactly what most of its customers want it to do.

The T1 is designed for and marketed to audiophiles who want to listen to music for pleasure.

You, on the other hand, are looking for accuracy above all else so you should be looking more towards reference monitoring headphones. Good luck finding a headphone that is accurate all the way up through the treble. Even the very best struggle with that. However, there are more suitable models that would appear to fit you requirements lower down the range.

I would start with a listen to the Audeze LCD-X and the HifiMAN HE-6. They are both more neutral through the range that is causing you issues. They do sound quite different in the treble but it's good to have choice.

 

[SSL443]

The only thing I object to, for no particular reason than preventing the spread of disinformation, is that you have seriously maligned a very good headphone for doing exactly what it is designed to do and exactly what most of its customers want it to do.

The T1 is designed for and marketed to audiophiles who want to listen to music for pleasure.

You, on the other hand, are looking for accuracy above all else so you should be looking more towards reference monitoring headphones. Good luck finding a headphone that is accurate all the way up through the treble. Even the very best struggle with that. However, there are more suitable models that would appear to fit you requirements lower down the range.

I would start with a listen to the Audeze LCD-X and the HifiMAN HE-6. They are both more neutral through the range that is causing you issues. They do sound quite different in the treble but it's good to have choice.

 
I find accuracy pleasurable. Hearing an instrument sound like it's playing through a tube at one point in it's register, and then sound real in another is not pleasurable. It's distracting. It takes me out of the music and reminds me that I'm using headphones.
 
And again, the problem with the T1 is the lower mid-range. A very specific register. The treble is fine, the peak at 11kHz doesn't bother me.
 
I do not know why you keep showing frequency response graphs, since none of them show the response of the current T1. Also, first you say that I want a v-shaped signature, now I want accuracy above all else? Make up your mind. You're going to give me whiplash at this rate.
 
Thanks for the headphone recommendations. I'm considering the HE-560, which is more in my price range, 'cause then I can pick up a real amp at the same time. Think I'll like that one?

 

[TommiK]

   
I find accuracy pleasurable. Hearing an instrument sound like it's playing through a tube at one point in it's register, and then sound real in another is not pleasurable. It's distracting. It takes me out of the music and reminds me that I'm using headphones.
 
And again, the problem with the T1 is the lower mid-range. A very specific register. The treble is fine, the peak at 11kHz doesn't bother me.
 
I do not know why you keep showing frequency response graphs, since none of them show the response of the current T1. Also, first you say that I want a v-shaped signature, now I want accuracy above all else? Make up your mind. You're going to give me whiplash at this rate.
 
Thanks for the headphone recommendations. I'm considering the HE-560, which is more in my price range, 'cause then I can pick up a real amp at the same time. Think I'll like that one?

Don't really wanna get wrapped up in this, but you have preferences that these headphones don't satisfy and are arguing an entirely subjective point. Now, first rule of Audiophile Club is 1) everyone's ears are different (and don't talk about Audiophile Club) so Technobear is doing his best to reason around that fact by referring to specs and tech but you keep defaulting to an argument that amounts to "but I hear this!" 
 
We know what you hear! You've told us! It's not really an argument so much as a display of a experiential preference that is totally fine and in fact advantageous to have. But Technobear is being mad helpful to you, not trying to call you a liar or something.

 

[technobear]

I'm considering the HE-560, which is more in my price range, 'cause then I can pick up a real amp at the same time. Think I'll like that one?

I think there is a good chance and also consider the Audeze EL-8 in that price range.

 

[Jazic]

I think there is a good chance and also consider the Audeze EL-8 in that price range.

 
Do not buy the EL8 blindly. 
 
I'm an avid Audeze fanboy but the EL8C is the worst sounding headphone I have ever heard period. Yes, it was sourced properly, yes, it was amped properly, and yes, it was burned in. 
 
I canceled my preorder after hearing one. The EL8 open is decent but for a few hundred more you can get an LCD2f which is literally 5x better in every way aside from size.

 

[Hansotek]

 

I'm considering the HE-560, which is more in my price range, 'cause then I can pick up a real amp at the same time. Think I'll like that one?

I think there is a good chance and also consider the Audeze EL-8 in that price range.

 
I have to disagree on the EL-8. The HE560 is a solid rec though.
 
Also, Fiios tend to have crappy, boxy lower mids @SSL443. But in your defense, the lower mids on the 880 are so dry sounding I can see how one could might be able to confuse it for warmth. Anyway, if your scaling up your headphone, you're going to have to upgrade that amp too, or your going to keep running into the same issue. More resolution from the headphone will expose flaws in the chain. On the upside you hear more. On the downside you hear more. That's just the reality of the situation. 
 
Just trying to keep you from making the same mistake twice. Good luck.

 

[technobear]

The EL-8 wasn't my cup of tea either but it does have a very flat even midrange that extends it seems all the way to 2500Hz. Treble is somewhat laid back, some would say missing. The HE-560 is better but isn't quite flat through the midrange. It has a couple of kinks. Will that be enough to ruin SSL443's piano? Only he can tell us that by going to listen to a pair.