[Find the Door]

Agree but a mojo will drive them sub-optimally.

What's a mojo?

 

[Kramer01]

Find the Door

Chord Mojo.

 

[Find the Door]

Find the Door

Chord Mojo.

Oh why'd he say suboptimally? I'm using a Creative x7 with Sparkos op-amps. I'm leaning more towards the T1 Gen 2s at this point as I already like my Beyer Mmx 300s (DT770S)

 

[Kramer01]

Oh why'd he say suboptimally? I'm using a Creative x7 with Sparkos op-amps. I'm leaning more towards the T1 Gen 2s at this point as I already like my Beyer Mmx 300s (DT770S)

 
@Find the Door
 
The T1 G2 are 600ohm HP's and they go upto to 1400+ohm at some frequencies. High impedance hp's require a good amount of voltage to sound their best and portable amps/sound cards cannot supply the required voltage hence the suboptimally comment. What this means is that High impedance HP + portable amp = unsatisfying bass response + peaky hard sound at even moderately high volume level. Bass frequencies require the max power/voltage combo and since good bass requires lots of voltage on the T1 a portable amp or sound card will not be an optimal choice. A portable amp and sound card will provide greater current so the volume will be louder than if it was plugged directly into a phone or headphone jack on a pc but loud volume level is completely different to a headphone being driven properly. 
 
Underpowered the tonal balance of the T1G2 is off and the sound can and does get peaky and listening fatigue sets in relatively quickly.
 
If you have your heart set on a t1, I'll steer you towards a t5p 2nd gen(if you don't mind closed back)  or an AK T1p. AK T1p is rated at 32 ohm hence will pair better with portable amps like the mojo.  https://www.adorama.com/akt1p.html
 
Here is a good 1st impression/review of the AK T1p. http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/katzs-corner-episode-9-astell-kearn-ak-t1p-headphones-and-ak380-music-player
 
 IMHO the AK T1p will be better fit for your needs.
 
Just like @thatonenoob said for gaming I'll steer you towards the T1 g2 (or AK T1p) since its nearly as spacious sounding as the 800S plus the imaging is more precise IMHO.
 
The T1 G2 (and I'm assuming AK T1p) are the best sub 1200$ cans and in the current head-fi scenario a bargain. They sound awesome provided the amplification and source is up to the lofty standards of the T1.
 
If you go for an AK T1p try auditioning it with a chord mojo with music or games you are familiar with, I think you will pleasantly surprised with the SQ. I feel that good headphones are best paired with sources that are at par with the headphone itself. Something like a mojo(or any good DAC/Amp) will greatly improve your gaming experience. 
 
Hope this solves most of your queries.

 

[Find the Door]

@Find the Door


The T1 G2 are 600ohm HP's and they go upto to 1400+ohm at some frequencies. High impedance hp's require a good amount of voltage to sound their best and portable amps/sound cards cannot supply the required voltage hence the suboptimally comment. What this means is that High impedance HP + portable amp = unsatisfying bass response + peaky hard sound at even moderately high volume level. Bass frequencies require the max power/voltage combo and since good bass requires lots of voltage on the T1 a portable amp or sound card will not be an optimal choice. A portable amp and sound card will provide greater current so the volume will be louder than if it was plugged directly into a phone or headphone jack on a pc but loud volume level is completely different to a headphone being driven properly. 

Underpowered the tonal balance of the T1G2 is off and the sound can and does get peaky and listening fatigue sets in relatively quickly.

If you have your heart set on a t1, I'll steer you towards a t5p 2nd gen(if you don't mind closed back)  or an AK T1p. AK T1p is rated at 32 ohm hence will pair better with portable amps like the mojo.  https://www.adorama.com/akt1p.html

Here is a good 1st impression/review of the AK T1p. http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/katzs-corner-episode-9-astell-kearn-ak-t1p-headphones-and-ak380-music-player

 IMHO the AK T1p will be better fit for your needs.

Just like @thatonenoob
 said for gaming I'll steer you towards the T1 g2 (or AK T1p) since its nearly as spacious sounding as the 800S plus the imaging is more precise IMHO.

The T1 G2 (and I'm assuming AK T1p) are the best sub 1200$ cans and in the current head-fi scenario a bargain. They sound awesome provided the amplification and source is up to the lofty standards of the T1.

If you go for an AK T1p try auditioning it with a chord mojo with music or games you are familiar with, I think you will pleasantly surprised with the SQ. I feel that good headphones are best paired with sources that are at par with the headphone itself. Something like a mojo(or any good DAC/Amp) will greatly improve your gaming experience. 

Hope this solves most of your queries.

Appreciate the response

So yeah the X7 Limited Edition can handle a 600 Ohm headphone just fine from what I understand (especially with the upgraded OPamps). It's plenty loud on high gain.

I just need to be sure that the T1 Gen 2 is gonna give me a better imaging experience and a comparable soundstage. I'm sure they're on par when it comes to detail.

 

[Kramer01]

Appreciate the response

So yeah the X7 Limited Edition can handle a 600 Ohm headphone just fine from what I understand (especially with the upgraded OPamps). It's plenty loud on high gain.

I just need to be sure that the T1 Gen 2 is gonna give me a better imaging experience and a comparable soundstage. I'm sure they're on par when it comes to detail.

the soundstage on the t1 is very good.
If the 800s is a 10 the t1g2 is a solid 8.8-9. The imaging I feel is the t1's strong point. It provides a very good depth perception but is not as wide as the 800/800s. The 800/800s is bit better at soundstage width but not by a huge margin.

 

[Find the Door]

the soundstage on the t1 is very good.
If the 800s is a 10 the t1g2 is a solid 8.8-9. The imaging I feel is the t1's strong point. It provides a very good depth perception but is not as wide as the 800/800s. The 800/800s is bit better at soundstage width but not by a huge margin.

Gotcha I feel that depth is probably most important as that'll give me a sense of how far away something truly is and how to react. Is there that much of a discrepancy is detail or highs between the two?

I do appreciate the removable 1/4 adapter too. My main gripe with the 712 Pros is when my gaming gets busy (gunshots and explosions) they got very very muddy and it was difficult to discern sounds from another. The highs weren't that detailed either.

 

[thatonenoob]

Gotcha I feel that depth is probably most important as that'll give me a sense of how far away something truly is and how to react. Is there that much of a discrepancy is detail or highs between the two?

I do appreciate the removable 1/4 adapter too. My main gripe with the 712 Pros is when my gaming gets busy (gunshots and explosions) they got very very muddy and it was difficult to discern sounds from another. The highs weren't that detailed either.

HD800 has more detached highs, and detail retrieval is better.  I like that the T1 highs extend nicely out of the upper mids.  It's nicer imo and less "sound-stagey".

 

[Kramer01]

Gotcha I feel that depth is probably most important as that'll give me a sense of how far away something truly is and how to react. Is there that much of a discrepancy is detail or highs between the two?

I do appreciate the removable 1/4 adapter too. My main gripe with the 712 Pros is when my gaming gets busy (gunshots and explosions) they got very very muddy and it was difficult to discern sounds from another. The highs weren't that detailed either.

Traditionally beyer has had sharper highs than senn and that is the case with the t1g2 as well. I feel t1g2 is sweeter sounding in the highs.

T1's imaging us especially impressive while watching movies. The open quality makes for natural-sounding dialog and even with a lot going on it never gets congested.

I do play some games and explosions and gunshots have great kick to them. In COD you can precisely hear the direction in which the explosion is happening.

 

[dede4metal]

   
A portable amp and sound card will provide greater current so the volume will be louder than if it was plugged directly into a phone or headphone jack on a pc but loud volume level is completely different to a headphone being driven properly. 
 

This is crucial. And it is why the T1.2 sound best on OTL amps or non portable SS amp, the closest to portable SS amp that gives an OK result on them is the iFi iCan for what I have heard. Do you guys agree?

 

[henriks]

What do leather pads do for the sound?

 

[SRKRAM]

  Do you have a source for that?

No I don't - I may have assumed wrong because I found a disassembly video of the T1.1 and the cable screen seemed to be attached to the driver chassis.

 

[SRKRAM]

   
@Find the Door
 
The T1 G2 are 600ohm HP's and they go upto to 1400+ohm at some frequencies. High impedance hp's require a good amount of voltage to sound their best and portable amps/sound cards cannot supply the required voltage hence the suboptimally comment. What this means is that High impedance HP + portable amp = unsatisfying bass response + peaky hard sound at even moderately high volume level. Bass frequencies require the max power/voltage combo and since good bass requires lots of voltage on the T1 a portable amp or sound card will not be an optimal choice. A portable amp and sound card will provide greater current so the volume will be louder than if it was plugged directly into a phone or headphone jack on a pc but loud volume level is completely different to a headphone being driven properly. 
 
Underpowered the tonal balance of the T1G2 is off and the sound can and does get peaky and listening fatigue sets in relatively quickly.
 
If you have your heart set on a t1, I'll steer you towards a t5p 2nd gen(if you don't mind closed back)  or an AK T1p. AK T1p is rated at 32 ohm hence will pair better with portable amps like the mojo.  https://www.adorama.com/akt1p.html
 
Here is a good 1st impression/review of the AK T1p. http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/katzs-corner-episode-9-astell-kearn-ak-t1p-headphones-and-ak380-music-player
 
 IMHO the AK T1p will be better fit for your needs.
 
Just like @thatonenoob said for gaming I'll steer you towards the T1 g2 (or AK T1p) since its nearly as spacious sounding as the 800S plus the imaging is more precise IMHO.
 
The T1 G2 (and I'm assuming AK T1p) are the best sub 1200$ cans and in the current head-fi scenario a bargain. They sound awesome provided the amplification and source is up to the lofty standards of the T1.
 
If you go for an AK T1p try auditioning it with a chord mojo with music or games you are familiar with, I think you will pleasantly surprised with the SQ. I feel that good headphones are best paired with sources that are at par with the headphone itself. Something like a mojo(or any good DAC/Amp) will greatly improve your gaming experience. 
 
Hope this solves most of your queries.

To my ears the T1.2 sounds pretty paired with the Mojo. The Mojo can output over 5v rms. How much voltage do you think is needed to drive T1s?
 
-Mark.

 

[Kramer01]

  To my ears the T1.2 sounds pretty paired with the Mojo. The Mojo can output over 5v rms. How much voltage do you think is needed to drive T1s?
 
-Mark.

Hi Mark
 
I didn't mean that a portable amp couldn't power a T1g2, you can definitely get good volume levels BUT the delta between the T1g2 being driven by a good desktop amp and a portable amp to my ears is big. I'm not talking about volume level or loudness, with a portable amp the impact, dynamics and tonal richness are lacking(compared to a big rig), it doesn't sound as big and expansive. On proper big rigs the T1g2 sounds 

fleshier and warmer without giving up excitement or sounding darker or heavier per se. The transients are sharper and there is a greater sense of drive to the music. If you haven't tried the T1g2 on a proper desktop amp try it with a balanced SS amp. The bass gains weight and it just sounds better. Unless driven properly a lot of performance is being left untapped.
 

I might be mistaken but the 5rms the mojo outputs is not at 600 Ohm.

 

[SRKRAM]

  Hi Mark
 
I didn't mean that a portable amp couldn't power a T1g2, you can definitely get good volume levels BUT the delta between the T1g2 being driven by a good desktop amp and a portable amp to my ears is big. I'm not talking about volume level or loudness, with a portable amp the impact, dynamics and tonal richness are lacking(compared to a big rig), it doesn't sound as big and expansive. On proper big rigs the T1g2 sounds 

fleshier and warmer without giving up excitement or sounding darker or heavier per se. The transients are sharper and there is a greater sense of drive to the music. If you haven't tried the T1g2 on a proper desktop amp try it with a balanced SS amp. The bass gains weight and it just sounds better. Unless driven properly a lot of performance is being left untapped.
 

I might be mistaken but the 5rms the mojo outputs is not at 600 Ohm.

Thanks for the reply. I've had my eye on the T5P for a while as I want a good set of closed headphones to compliment the T1s. I just orders a pair or AK T5Ps, so I'll be interested to see how they sound.
 
For the T1s I want to stick with SS amps. I've thought about getting a Beyerdynamic A1 or A20 and driving them with the Mojo. I've also been curious about the Grace m9xx - It should be  a bit more powerful than the mojo, but I wondered if it would be a meaningful upgrade.
 
-Mark.