[up late]

...euphonic headphones...[ 'euphoric' is a common error on head-fi]

It is quite incredible that you find W3000ANV having "piercing upper midrange/lower treble". It shows what variations in hearing exist among people. The consensus is that W3000ANV has soft treble, I've seen W3000ANV's higher frequencies described as "magical', as "like spun gold", as "just right", as "fantastic"... I hear the same and I agree but I wish there were more of them, I wish there was like at least 10% more treble in volume. When I bought W3000ANV my hearing, that means my inner ear apparatus and my auditory brain cells, was used to a neutral sound signature. I prefer to listen to a balanced sound and so W3000ANV, which are neutral headphones, sounded right and normal to me right from the beginning.
If one is used to more bassy unbalanced sound with weaker treble then he would find W3000ANV "bright" with "piercing treble". Human brain is described as having adaptive "plasticity", that means the brain has the ability and capacity to adapt to new stimuli and information so that it can process and store this information. If a brain regularly hears treble muted music then it adapts to this sound and takes it as a norm. It even tries to compensate for the lack of treble by modulating audio signal, by adding its own brain created treble impression so that the music sounds more right. When suddenly confronted with normal balanced sound this previously 'tweaked' brain then perceives the balanced normal music as unbalanced and as having piercing treble. I've done some readings on this phenomenon and I found a research paper on hearing experiments. According to this study it takes between 30 to 90 days for an 'influenced' or 'modded' brain to return to normal hearing mode.
Ideally when one wants to evaluate headphones with a balanced sound then he or she should not be regularly using headphones with dark sound signature for at least a month, otherwise the sound impressions and evaluation of tested headphones would be 'skewed', distorted, inaccurate.
Another possibility is that you have a treble sensitive hearing due to either an ear illness at childhood or you have a congenital slight abnormality. Your 'cochlea' or part of it might be of atypical shape or you have abnormally high count of 'cillia' hair-cells in the entrance to cochlea where the high frequency sound is 'heard' and 'processed'. - http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2010/05/10/dont-you-hear-that/

           

We 'hear' high frequencies right at the back of the ear canal where it meets the beginning of the 'cochlea' tube - starts at 20 000 Hz and then it gets to lower ones as the sound travels into the centre spiral - 200 Hz and lower. Some people have undeveloped the very end of the spiral and so they cannot hear sub-bass and low bass. For some people the bass starts at 65 hz, they cannot hear 20-65 Hz sound. Damage to 'cillia' within the whole 'bass' region of 'cochlea' means an individual hears weak, rolled off whole bass.

Nobody likes shrill treble but you might be one of those whose hearing shifts parts of normal treble into shrill resonances. If that is not case then listen for some 40 days to only balanced headphones that have a full treble, and then try W3000ANV. You'll hear different.

- http://www.cns.nyu.edu/~david/courses/perception/lecturenotes/pitch/pitch.html
- http://oto2.wustl.edu/cochlea/romesalt.pdf
- http://www.simonheather.co.uk/pages/articles/science_hearing.pdf
- http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/
- http://www.businessinsider.com/image-of-our-brain-listening-to-music-2013-6
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_cortex
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_system

There are bright headphones that I am totally fine with, though.

For instance, I am okay with the W1000, and it's not as piercing as the W3000ANV to me.

I am also okay with the AD2000.

And beyond that, I can take the HE-560, HE-6, and SR-009.

And still the W3000ANV sounds "piercing" to me. I also experience this "piercing" sound with the W1000X.

It'll be interesting when I get to hear the W3000ANV again after owning the HE-560 for another while. I think I'll still find it piercing, but it'll be worth a try.

don't usually agree with zorin but i will say that i don't notice any glare in the upper mids or find the lower treble of the w3000anv piercing. the w3000anv has the sweetest highs i've heard from any can and the mids are just lovely. euphonic is the word alright.

 

[pekingduck]

This is what @Currawong had to say about the W1000Z at the Tokyo 2014 Autumn Fujiya Avic Headphone Festival
 

 The ATH-W1000Z. Audio Technica's woodies have been somewhat hit-and-miss with me, mainly due to the fit, which seems to favor people with wide, round heads. The pads on the W1000Z seem to be a merger of the new style on the X series with the flat face of the pads on their older woodies. Once I got a good fit (I had to push in at the bottom of the arcs) the sound suggested a serious competitor to Sony's Z7s, with a more even sound and less bass. Thankfully they don't have "limited" in their description. However, the ESW9LTD, which was also on display, are.

 

[SunTanScanMan]

  This is what @Currawong had to say about the W1000Z at the Tokyo 2014 Autumn Fujiya Avic Headphone Festival
 

Nice pics of the headphone in the post. The pads look thicker than in the official pics, which is a positive. Interestingly, my experience of swapping out the W1000X's pads to thicker ones straightened out the headphone seal and shifted the pressure to the my head above the ears. I expected a similar effect with the W1000Z but does not seem to be the case.
 
I notice that the headband arch and the hinge mechanism part is based off that of the W3000ANV? Probably just me, but I prefer the more angular, and 'bare metal' structure of the W1000X/W5000/AD2000X etc. More elegant to my eyes.
 
The comparison with the Z7 is interesting, though I will also wait until someone does a more extensive listen in a more controlled environment.
 
 
Ps. Also thanks to @zorin regarding the posts on driver design and hearing frequencies. I genuinely found reading both posts fascinating.

 

[Bill-P]

don't usually agree with zorin

but i will say that i don't notice any glare in the upper mids or find the lower treble of the w3000anv piercing. the w3000anv has the sweetest highs i've heard from any can and the mids are just lovely. euphonic is the word alright.

 
Well, frequency response graphs do show some peaks in the W3000's upper midrange and lower treble...
 

 
Notice the W3000ANV has a peak at 5KHz and then another peak at 8-10KHz? The peak at 5KHz accounts for the upper midrange harshness that I heard, and the 8-10KHz accounts for the sibilance/piercing part.
 
No disrespect to Zorin or you, of course, but I trust that my hearing is accurate, and at least frequency response graphs would agree with me.
 
I actually listen to pop music with lots of treble and glare on a daily basis. Especially closed-mic acoustic romantic types that ATH headphones are typically better suited to, but the sibilance and piercing nature of these recordings are just further exacerbated with the W3000ANV to my ears. Previous ATH headphones like the W1000, or even W10VTG don't exhibit this behavior at all. I haven't heard this sibilance until the new woody series... (W1000X/W3000ANV)

 

[up late]

where's the graph from? it's different to the one over at the pirate's site. on that graph the peak is around 4k and is -10 db - pretty benign i'd say. the other peak occurs between 10 and 11k and is around -5db. that's probably giving the w3000anv's delicate highs their sparkle. apparently a-t woodies are very hard to measure because of their design so keep that in mind. would like to see tyll measure these as well.

we all trust our ears man. maybe you're just sensitive to peaks in those areas like zorin says.

 

[Bill-P]

That's from some Chinese website.
 
The pirate's graph also has a peak around 4KHz, and the peak at 8-9KHz is only shifted slightly to the right.
 
Disregarding the scale, relative to 1KHz, the peak at 4KHz is 4.5dB up, and the peak at 8-10KHz is 2dB up.
 
That's definitely audible.
 
When the pirates measured the W3000ANV without the ear cups, the measurement looks even worse because the upper midrange has peaks all over, while the peak at 8-10KHz really isn't diminished.
 
It's one thing that my ears hear it, but measurements also agree. 

 
And it's not like I'm the only one who has complained about sibilance with the W3000ANV thus far, right?
http://www.head-fi.org/t/630386/the-audio-technica-w3000anv-thread/195

 

[Currawong]

The W3000ANV were weird to my ears, as if someone had tuned them by ear more than anything. My quick audition of the W1000Z suggested a more even sound, enough that it would tempt me to buy a pair. 

 

[up late]

That's from some Chinese website.

The pirate's graph also has a peak around 4KHz, and the peak at 8-9KHz is only shifted slightly to the right.

Disregarding the scale, relative to 1KHz, the peak at 4KHz is 4.5dB up, and the peak at 8-10KHz is 2dB up.

That's definitely audible.

When the pirates measured the W3000ANV without the ear cups, the measurement looks even worse because the upper midrange has peaks all over, while the peak at 8-10KHz really isn't diminished.

It's one thing that my ears hear it, but measurements also agree. 

And it's not like I'm the only one who has complained about sibilance with the W3000ANV thus far, right?
http://www.head-fi.org/t/630386/the-audio-technica-w3000anv-thread/195

not saying that the peaks aren't audible just that you seem sensitive to them. it hasn't been an issue for other folks who have heard this can and posted in the w3000anv and meet impressions threads - myself included. agree with zorin that there appears to be a consensus of opinion about the beguiling way the w3000anv does mids and highs.

the measurements taken without the ear cups are kinda irrelevant imo.

thought we were talking about piercing upper mids and lower treble? you seem to be focussing on sibilance now which is not the same thing imo. anyways i happen to agree with you there. vocals can be sibilant with this can and if you're listening to a lot of close miked vocals then i can understand how it might bother you. but that's not unique to the w3000anv. the w5000 suffers from it too apparently. have you heard that can?

The W3000ANV were weird to my ears, as if someone had tuned them by ear more than anything. My quick audition of the W1000Z suggested a more even sound, enough that it would tempt me to buy a pair. 

well a-t woodies are known for their unique coloration. if you're looking for a closed can with a balanced/neutral presentation then you should look elsewhere. maybe a-t have gone for a more conventional sound with this new release.

 

[Currawong]

 
well a-t woodies are known for their unique coloration. if you're looking for a closed can with a balanced/neutral presentation then you should look elsewhere.

maybe a-t have gone for a more conventional sound with this new release.

 
And each one is different. I get the impression that they are mostly intended for collectors (at least the limited editions are). What was interesting was that the W1000X (not Z) sounded best to me out of the AT amps, but the W3000ANV didn't.  I'm hoping that the W1000Z are an evolution of the design with better drivers. 

 

[up late]

true dat - they are all uniquely different. and those beautiful wood cups draw folks in big time - myself included.

 

[Bill-P]

not saying that the peaks aren't audible just that you seem sensitive to them. it hasn't been an issue for other folks who have heard this can and posted in the w3000anv and meet impressions threads - myself included. agree with zorin that there appears to be a consensus of opinion about the beguiling way the w3000anv does mids and highs.

the measurements taken without the ear cups are kinda irrelevant imo.

thought we were talking about piercing upper mids and lower treble? you seem to be focussing on sibilance now which is not the same thing imo. anyways i happen to agree with you there. vocals can be sibilant with this can and if you're listening to a lot of close miked vocals then i can understand how it might bother you. but that's not unique to the w3000anv. the w5000 suffers from it too apparently. have you heard that can?

 
Well, I must admit I am pretty sensitive to that peak after all. I can hear sibilance with something like the LCD-2, too. But still, what I'm trying to say is... the W3000ANV is pretty obviously sibilant to me, and not just a little.
 
And yeah, unfortunately, a good number of my recordings are acoustic types with extremely closed-mic that would still sound sibilant even after EQ (eh?) with certain cans. I can count off the top of my fingers the number of "neutral" sounding headphones that can deal with them well for me.
 
Though I agree. It's not unique to the W3000. The W5000 and W1000X also suffered from that. In fact, I'd agree that the other 2 headphones tended to suffer from that more.
 
But if you had heard the W10VTG, the W1000, the AD2000, etc... you'd know Audio Technica's own tuning didn't have that peak there. For some reason, their new woody line-ups since the W5000 have included that sibilance peak.
 
Hopefully the new W1000Z won't suffer from the same peak.
 
Even now, I'm still a fan of Audio Technica's wood midrange. My obsession with their midrange has pushed me to build my own amplifier for the HE-560 and obtaining a really rare DAC to recreate that midrange magic... that's so smooth, euphonic, and grain-free. It's not detailed, and may go against the philosophy of those who pursue the heights of the hobby, but it's just so seductive, so sweet, and so easy to listen to. It's too bad Audio Technica couldn't keep the peak on the W3000 down, because it would have been a good stopping point for me. I really liked its midrange, but the sibilance was a big turn-off.

 

[vlenbo]

   
Well, I must admit I am pretty sensitive to that peak after all. I can hear sibilance with something like the LCD-2, too. But still, what I'm trying to say is... the W3000ANV is pretty obviously sibilant to me, and not just a little.
 
And yeah, unfortunately, a good number of my recordings are acoustic types with extremely closed-mic that would still sound sibilant even after EQ (eh?) with certain cans. I can count off the top of my fingers the number of "neutral" sounding headphones that can deal with them well for me.
 
Though I agree. It's not unique to the W3000. The W5000 and W1000X also suffered from that. In fact, I'd agree that the other 2 headphones tended to suffer from that more.
 
But if you had heard the W10VTG, the W1000, the AD2000, etc... you'd know Audio Technica's own tuning didn't have that peak there. For some reason, their new woody line-ups since the W5000 have included that sibilance peak.
 
Hopefully the new W1000Z won't suffer from the same peak.
 
Even now, I'm still a fan of Audio Technica's wood midrange. My obsession with their midrange has pushed me to build my own amplifier for the HE-560 and obtaining a really rare DAC to recreate that midrange magic... that's so smooth, euphonic, and grain-free. It's not detailed, and may go against the philosophy of those who pursue the heights of the hobby, but it's just so seductive, so sweet, and so easy to listen to. It's too bad Audio Technica couldn't keep the peak on the W3000 down, because it would have been a good stopping point for me. I really liked its midrange, but the sibilance was a big turn-off.

Have hope!
 
I feel like Audio technica's new line-up of headphones will bring something good on the table.
 
The msr7s are my limit though, so I hope you guys can enjoy the w1000z when it releases.

 

[Bill-P]

  Have hope!
 
I feel like Audio technica's new line-up of headphones will bring something good on the table.
 
The msr7s are my limit though, so I hope you guys can enjoy the w1000z when it releases.

Well, hopefully so.
 
But I'm cautiously watching to see if anything will crop up. Less bass than the MDR-Z7 may not be good for me, since I do like a bit of body to my sound.
 
And beside that, it'll be quite hard for me to justify another full-size headphone in my collection since my HE-560 will most likely destroy anything non-Stax or non-planar.

 

[up late]

Well, I must admit I am pretty sensitive to that peak after all. I can hear sibilance with something like the LCD-2, too. But still, what I'm trying to say is... the W3000ANV is pretty obviously sibilant to me, and not just a little.

And yeah, unfortunately, a good number of my recordings are acoustic types with extremely closed-mic that would still sound sibilant even after EQ (eh?) with certain cans. I can count off the top of my fingers the number of "neutral" sounding headphones that can deal with them well for me.

Though I agree. It's not unique to the W3000. The W5000 and W1000X also suffered from that. In fact, I'd agree that the other 2 headphones tended to suffer from that more.

But if you had heard the W10VTG, the W1000, the AD2000, etc... you'd know Audio Technica's own tuning didn't have that peak there. For some reason, their new woody line-ups since the W5000 have included that sibilance peak.

Hopefully the new W1000Z won't suffer from the same peak.

Even now, I'm still a fan of Audio Technica's wood midrange. My obsession with their midrange has pushed me to build my own amplifier for the HE-560 and obtaining a really rare DAC to recreate that midrange magic... that's so smooth, euphonic, and grain-free. It's not detailed, and may go against the philosophy of those who pursue the heights of the hobby, but it's just so seductive, so sweet, and so easy to listen to. It's too bad Audio Technica couldn't keep the peak on the W3000 down, because it would have been a good stopping point for me. I really liked its midrange, but the sibilance was a big turn-off.

like i said, the w5000 can be sibilant and it's been around since 2005. it's not a recent development.

 

[Bill-P]

I think it's more like it has been ages since Audio Technica last refreshed their full-size wood headphones.
 
These days, you're more likely to see them target the consumer segment... pushing out more portable models.