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New Audio-gd R7 (R2R 7) & R8 Flagship Resistor Ladder DACs

Discussion in 'High-end Audio Forum' started by Currawong, Jun 30, 2017.
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  1. abartels
    Currawong likes this.
  2. Wynnytsky
    I 2nd that. 15yrs ago I got it for $200 off newegg and today the used price appears to be higher.
    I remember getting brown outs and that heavy PF60 carried my TV and Yamaha receiver through it (like a short term UPS)
    Anything not connected to it would shut down.

    Today I use a PS Audio P3 (750VA) and while I have no complaints, I don't recall it ever riding through a brown out.
    I do like that the P3 doesn't waste much power (maybe 20 to 30watts IIRC), and they have a bank that isn't regenerated, and my amp does sound better on that bank.

    I have a heavy 200watt LPS that I use for an iFi and low wattage computer -- should I be regenerating or just conditioning for that?
    Currently I run it into a PLC Thingee and into the wall. Thoughts?
     
  3. windcar
    http://www.laaudiofile.com/belkinpf60.html
    The internal looks really well made compared to other conditioners on the market. The price is decent too. Thanks for sharing
     
  4. abartels
    In the time they were actual going products from Belkin, they were expensive.
    The European version, PF50 (which I own btw), has passive filtering only, while the US versions had battery backup.
    I paid €600 for my PF50 and I am very sure PF60 was about $600 to $800 in that time.

    If you search on Ebay for PF60 you got very different results, price wise, some ask $200 and others ask $1300...........

    I still use my passive PF50 though, I still classify it as one of the best (or even THE best) audio purchase ever!!


    PS audio P3 is a good device i think. The reason why your amp sounds better on filtered only and not regenerated, is that P3 hasn't got
    enough power to do this in a correct way. Most regenerators do have problems with higher currents, soundwise.

    Low current devices mostly do sound better when regenerated, not sure if your 200W LPS handles a to high draw for the P3.

    And, what do you mean by "Currently I run it into a PLC Thingee and into the wall", explain please
     
  5. windcar
    Belkin website quote a price of $169, though it's out of stock
    http://www.belkin.com/onlinestore/aafes/product/?p=607183#

    Even without battery I consider it a steal. Most conditioner of this price range will only comes with one or 2 transformers shared among all outlets. This actually has a transformer for each outlet.
     
  6. Wynnytsky
    I plug wall warts and the LPS into this:
    http://www.bluecircle.com/page86.html

    My unsubstantiated logic was that that P3 would behave "cleaner" if I plugged the non-essentials elsewhere.
    I'm only regenerating the R2R7 now (so under 50watts) but tonight I'll see if I can hear a diff when adding the LPS.

    It's cool that the PF60 has an outlet on the front so new arrivals can get tested w/o reaching into the back.
    This guy parted with a display unit for $275
    http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/...ver-belkin-power-conditioner-surge-protector/
     
  7. abartels
    It is out of production, and wont come back.

    I was wrong about the battery powered version, that was another device, forgot typenr. I prefer the passive one anyway.

    When I found out about those Belkin devices, it was already out of production, at least the European versions. I tried to buy one from Dutch importer/distributor Belkin,
    which also was Nakamichi importer, called TransTec (http://www.transtec.nl/) They used it to demonstrate their audio products themselves in their showrooms, and they couldn't believe Belkin was seizing production
    because it was a very noticable improvement on all their equipment.


    If you can get one second hand, you wont regret it!!

    Btw, when Belkin PF50 entered the Dutch market, it had a pricetag of around €1200, comparable to those Monster AV devices.....
     
  8. abartels
  9. windcar
    I already have a Bada LB-5510 so I won't be looking for a conditioner anytime soon. I just wonder what I am missing out from a regenerative power such as an online UPS which convert power from AC to DC and then back to AC again for perfect sine wave.
     
  10. Wynnytsky
    I'm not a fan of conditioning with a battery that will eventually need replacing (and I'm assuming efficiency declines with time)
    I got the PF-60 for the startup/shutdown sequencing on individual banks, but it was the way it powered through brown outs that proved to be it's greatest virtue (you need big transformers for that).
    That is especially attractive if the power switch/button on your component has a mechanical state, because a brown out would otherwise rapidly cycle the power.

    Currently PSAudio emails me when my P3 looses network connectivity, and that is either a power or FIOS interruption.
    I can connect to my P3 from work and observe the voltage (historical voltage is graphed)
    PS Audio's older powerplant premier was less efficient (maybe the same as the HE350) but it performed well
    With the P3 also out of production I'd probably choose the HE350 if I were starting from scratch.
     
  11. FredA
    Regeneration is most often best but there is nothing like trying it. Whatever works best. You 200w lps probably has a load that draws much less than that. Another considerationis how well your ps audio prevents contamination between plugged devices. In my setup, the computer is plugged through an apc h15 with the tv and other noisy devices. There is an isolation transfo in it, which prevents contamination of my hifi gears, that are connected to the same wall outlet. I added an isolation transfo in my setup to feed my signal level gears to prevent contamination from the class d monoblocs. In my understanding, the transfo acts as a low pass filter. The point is the effect of high-frequency noise is very insidious on a dacs and ddcs.
     
  12. D2Girls
    do i just have ****ty ears to not be able to hear the difference in how music sounds with all these fancy power conditioner devices?
     
  13. abartels
    Unless you are almost deaf you definitely will hear an improvement, yes, B U T, and that is a very big one, O N L Y if your set A N D room acoustics are able to reveal all that information.

    I often went to friends of mine with my newly build designs, to compare at their homes, within their systems, and came to the conclusion that the difference in their set was MARGINAL.
    If your set is at it's top, whatever link in the chain is limiting, you can connect all stuff to a very expensive mainsfilter, but that won't improve the way it can when set is at a much higher sq level.
    Keep that in mind. That is were most people miss the boat when saying they can't hear the difference and thus is the compared equipment just shxt. You can't compare anything unless your system is revealing.

    Just my 2 cents...
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
  14. mocenigo
    No, most of it is confirmation bias :) Tongue-in-cheek jokes aside, it really depends on how ****ty your power is. For instance, I essentially live atop of a small power plant, so in my case a DC blocker and a large Schaffer filter already did something, but I should wrap all my gear in g-iron to get rid of some (thankfully now almost inaudible) buzz. Even the transformer of a Teddy Pardo amp buzzed like hell here, and if you know how he builds his stuff, this is nearly unbelievable.

    You may be in the lucky situation that you live in an area with relatively clear power, or that your gear is already good at rejecting power and airborne pollution – or, on the opposite side, your gear is not good enough to reveal these differences (and if you are happy with your gear, financially this is the best situation!)

    Roberto
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
  15. windcar
    I find the improvement is more apparent in tube amp, next will be class A solid state amp. Not so much for class B and D amp.
     
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