New Audio-gd R-7, R-7HE R-8, R-27, R-27HE, R-28 Flagship Resistor Ladder DACs and DAC/amps
Jan 4, 2020 at 9:18 AM Post #5,747 of 11,260
@Jackula - Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. Greatly appreciated. :relaxed:

Would you perhaps take a bit of time to see how you feel about the sonic signature (only in the bass region) of the James Blake song using the using the same source file, but not upsampled from Roon (all DSP off) in the following configurations:
1) NOS Denafrips.
2) NOS A-GD
3) OS1 A-GD
4) OS2 A-GD

If you find a difference, and if it is meaningful, could you share? You've dedicated an exceptional amount of time and effort to post your review, and I hope is is not too much of an imposition. Perhaps you'd also find the results interesting.

Cheers!
 
Jan 4, 2020 at 12:28 PM Post #5,748 of 11,260
@Jackula Thank you very much for the comparison!

I was also undecided on whether to buy the Denafrips or continue with Audio-GD. Here in Germany exists already a distribution that charges around €5300 EUR for the Terminator. That's why I bought (with a smile) the R-7HE. With the difference to the Termi and the spontaneous sale of my three-month-old Master-1 I was able to upgrade to the HE-1 right away. Now that I have read this great comparison, I am very happy about my decision and can't wait for the packages to be handed over to me on Tuesday.
 
Jan 4, 2020 at 1:36 PM Post #5,749 of 11,260
Introduction
Having been in this hobby for almost 20 years and having spent low six figures on audio (both head-fi and hifi combined), not a small amount but not a huge amount either. I always gravitate towards great value gear, I have owned a lot of gear and listened to a lot more around the world. Over the years I have developed an eclectic taste for music and a preference for an uncoloured sound that is completely transparent and devoid of tonal colour.

When I was shopping for a new DAC last year, I was looking at much higher price points than my then favourite DAC, the AMR DP-777SE (parent company of ifi, whom products like the Pro iCan has trickle-down technology). I listened to many DACs and it wasn’t until a friend showed me his Audio-GD R8 that my jaw dropped to the floor, eventually purchasing their flagship the R7HE 2020 model.

Methodology
One problem with describing high-end is the difficulty of conveying the sound through words, people still won’t know what it sounds like regardless of the number of audiophile adjectives you throw in, so for this review I have decided to use the Denafrips Terminator as a reference point. They are both Chinese R2R DACs with <US$100 price difference where I live, and both are great DACs that punch well above their price class.

I would also like to mention, although it seems like I am an Audio-GD convert, I certainly didn’t intend to have a complete Audio-GD chain, it just ended up that way because their products are some of the best I’ve heard regardless of price. However, I will treat this review like any other I’ve done in the past, objective rather than biased. This may not appeal to everyone but I feel an honest review is more helpful than a flattering one.

Setup
Uptone ISO Regen /w LPS 1.2 <USPCB> Audio-GD DI-20HE DDC <I2S> Audio-GD R7HE DAC <ACSS> Audio-GD HE9 Pre <ACSS> Audio-GD Master 2H monoblocks >>> Hulgich Duke.

The difference is with how each DAC is connected to the HE9, the Denafrips Terminator is via XLR and the Audio-GD R7HE is via ACSS. Also since the Terminator does not have internal regeneration, I am using my Isotek Solus which does 40dB of attenuation against mains common and differential mode noise. As you can see this is the home territory for the R7HE with everything Audio-GD except the speakers, although the same speakers are used by Kingwa of Audio-GD to voice his products.

HDMI cable is the Moshou flat 0.5m @FredA recommended, and I have put both the Terminator and R7HE on stock kettle cords to keep them as equal as possible. Both DACs respond very well to better cables but I don’t have enough (of the same cord) to keep both DACs powered on and warmed up at the same time.

Both DACs are configured for NOS, with Roon oversampling to the power of 2 capped at 192khz (for compatibility reasons), precise minimum phase. The Denafrips Terminator has the latest DSP upgrades and the R7HE 2020 is set to TDA off and is using the shipped firmware which I am most familiar with the R7_Parallel_DOP_IIS3.

All items have 1000+ hours of burn-in, except the DI-20HE which is currently at approx. 750 hours.

Build
The Terminator, despite not having a huge regenerative backend and being physically less imposing is surprisingly the heavier DAC, it oozes quality and runs cool to the touch at all times. While the R7HE I can probably slow cook an egg on it during hotter days and I like to turn it off at least once a week out of paranoia, although unnecessary according to Kingwa.

The Terminator has no ventilation holes, eliminating the possibility of dust from getting into the DAC. While the R7HE has ventilation holes directly above the circuit boards which I cover up with fan filters.

With small red LEDs along the front of the brushed aluminium enclosure showing mode and input, the Terminator is intuitive and easy to set up, it feels like a finished product. My only complaint is the LEDs are not very bright and hard to see in a well-lit room. On the other hand, the R7HE is based on archaic morse code which absolutely require a manual, it's not difficult to learn but it certainly isn't designed to be user-friendly.

Both DACs have similar inputs and outputs, with the exception of ACSS output and 10Mhz clock input on the R7HE which allows both the DDC and DAC slaved to the same master clock. I have yet to add a 10Mhz clock to my backend.

The Sound
In terms of raw technical performance, the Terminator has a tough time keeping up with the R7HE. The R7HE is a beast but it isn't categorically better than the Terminator either.

The Terminator appears to sacrifice a degree of absolute accuracy for the pleasantness of sound. It is a gentle sounding DAC with slower decay, although sometimes a tad too smooth as it smothers certain nuances that is otherwise clearly present on the R7HE. However, the slower decay also adds a bit more body.

Both DACs are tonally spot on neutral when fed I2S. When listening to the intro of "Street Charmer" - Flim & the BB's, I couldn't discern a tonal difference of the street ambience rendered by either DACs.

Technical Breakdown
Soundstage
Both DACs are equally wide and deep. There is more air and better separation of instruments on the Terminator however, the R7HE has better focus and accurate imaging.

Tie.

Dynamics
The Terminator hits just as hard as the R7HE however, microdynamics is clearly better on the R7HE.

The background is darker on the R7HE, and the excellent dynamics makes notes suddenly appear out from nowhere one jiffy and gone completely the next.

On the Terminator the quietest and loudest notes are closer together in volume, it appeals to the detail junkie because everything can be heard, from the finger gliding over a double bass to the piano key striking the key bed. This can also be a double-edged sword, as on some older recordings the background static is raised to a higher level.

R7HE wins.

Treble
The treble on the R7HE is well extended and with better details, although at 8X oversampling it can sound sharp on some recordings and fatiguing for sensitive ears. When capped at 192khz, the treble is more balanced while still retaining the same amount of detail. Treble on the Terminator is more forgiving however, feels a bit subdued since it's missing the finer details of the R7HE.

Tie.

Midrange
If I didn’t know better, I would say the Terminator has an exceptional midrange, holding its own against many flagship DACs. But I’ve got the R7HE and I know what the better midrange sounds like.

The R7HE is the king of midrange, I have not heard a more balanced and realistic midrange of any DAC at any price. The transparency is on a different level to the Terminator, with crisp transients and unparalleled clarity. Vocals are fully textured and instruments are clearly delineated and yet, together. Leading edges have the correct sharpness yet are not too forward nor fatiguing. It is raw and unfiltered.

R7HE wins.

Bass
The bass is where the Terminator really shines, it is faster and more detailed in the mid and upper bass regions. The R7HE bass is a bit thicker and digs deeper however, when compared side by side, the bass sounds sluggish, overly rounded and lacks the same level of articulation. It’s almost like the Terminator / R7HE had done a 180 in bass control respective to other frequencies.

Terminator wins.

Song Impressions
@FredA; I Heard It Through the Grapevine – Bill Frisell, source: Tidal 16/44



This track has an enormous soundstage width and depth that goes beyond the confines of my room on both DACs. It starts off gentle and the main difference between the R7HE and Terminator is how the song grows in intensity over 8 minutes. On the R7HE each intensity increase is clear cut and the end result is satisfying, while on the Terminator the growth is gentler and by the end the same energy is missing and leaves you wanting more.

@anroj; Willow Weep for Me – Sinne Eeg/Thomas Fonnesbaek, source: Tidal 16/44



The Terminator renders the better and more detailed double bass, with each pluck sharper and clearly audible against the resonance of the instrument. On the R7HE the pluck is also audible but is harder to make out and is blanketed by the gooey bass. The R7HE redeems itself when Eeg’s voice emerges, it renders her voice complete with all nuances while the Terminator smooths over her voice.

@UsoppNoKami; Bad Guy – Billie Eilish, source: Tidal 16/44



The Terminator once again renders perfectly the moment the stick hits the drum, much earlier than the R7HE can, and on the R7HE it just seems to sound “doof doof doof…” in relativity. This track is overwhelmingly bassy on the R7HE and is more balanced on the Terminator where the bass is tighter and is of better quality. The synth notes at the 1 minute and 2 minute marks are more distinctive with the R7HE while on the Terminator there is a longer sustain after each note.

@Chopin75; Berceuse in D-Flat Major Op 57 Andante – Chopin/Francois Dumont, source: Tidal 16/44



Both DACs portray each piano note perfectly with the correct weight difference between the left and right hands, the Terminator is just a tad smoother especially in the upper octaves. My main issue is with the inherit airiness of the Terminator making the left and right hands sound like two separate pianos when the hands are further apart.

@Tango Sierra; Joan of Arc – Jennifer Warnes, source: Tidal 16/44



As the quiet and loud noises are closer together on the Terminator, the chimes in the background is more obvious during the intro of the track. The same chimes become almost inaudible from the 7th second onwards on the R7HE, they can be still be heard with mental focus and are more succinct. Once again, both Warnes and Cohan’s voices are sharper on the R7HE and smoother on the Terminator. The vocals on this track is quite shouty on the R7HE and is more laidback on the Terminator.

@Tango Sierra; Good Morning School Girl – Muddy Waters, source: HDTracks 24/96.



The speed of transient decay on the R7HE makes this track sound absolutely glorious, the Terminator has a slightly tighter bass but the midrange and treble sounds veiled in comparison. Soundstage and placement are spot on with both DACs.

From me; Limit to Your Love – James Blake, source: Tidal 16/44



This is a track where the Terminator really shines with its clean bass lines, the perfect contrast between voice, drums and drone. On the R7HE the bass is too slow and lingers long enough that it obscures the finer textures in the bass, it also bleeds into the lower midrange and lacks the same PRaT as on the Terminator. I dislike the R7HE rendition of this track.

Conclusion
As to what is better, the Denafrips Terminator or the Audio-GD R7HE? Neither. Bottom line there is no “best” even in high-end. Both DACs are exceptional, and my subjective preference is with the R7HE. While the Denafrips did superbly on Audio-GD’s turf (and is possibly a better standalone DAC), I prefer the overall more realistic sound of my R7HE over Terminator’s smooth and pleasant presentation, it also synergises better with the rest of my Audio-GD setup. Although I do find myself longing for the Terminator’s bass from time to time.

The Audio-GD R7HE is an ultra-premium product that has demonstrated the ability to perform in the high-end category. It is sold directly out of China without distributor and retailer markups which is how it can have godly performance at an entry level price. It will be endgame for many people looking for the ultimate neutrality, including seasoned audiophiles. There’s not many DACs that can come close to its raw performance.


Excellent job Jackula!!

Thank you very much for your review and effort. That's exactly the kind of review I wanted to read.

One observation. You've said that, to even the DACs performance, you used the Isotek Solus with the Terminator as it doesnt have internal power regeneration. The Isotek Solus costs new about 1k, so that makes even more competitive in price the R7-HE. A real hi end bargain!
 
Jan 4, 2020 at 2:07 PM Post #5,750 of 11,260
Introduction
Having been in this hobby for almost 20 years and having spent low six figures on audio (both head-fi and hifi combined), not a small amount but not a huge amount either. I always gravitate towards great value gear, I have owned a lot of gear and listened to a lot more around the world. Over the years I have developed an eclectic taste for music and a preference for an uncoloured sound that is completely transparent and devoid of tonal colour.

When I was shopping for a new DAC last year, I was looking at much higher price points than my then favourite DAC, the AMR DP-777SE (parent company of ifi, whom products like the Pro iCan has trickle-down technology). I listened to many DACs and it wasn’t until a friend showed me his Audio-GD R8 that my jaw dropped to the floor, eventually purchasing their flagship the R7HE 2020 model.

Methodology
One problem with describing high-end is the difficulty of conveying the sound through words, people still won’t know what it sounds like regardless of the number of audiophile adjectives you throw in, so for this review I have decided to use the Denafrips Terminator as a reference point. They are both Chinese R2R DACs with <US$100 price difference where I live, and both are great DACs that punch well above their price class.

I would also like to mention, although it seems like I am an Audio-GD convert, I certainly didn’t intend to have a complete Audio-GD chain, it just ended up that way because their products are some of the best I’ve heard regardless of price. However, I will treat this review like any other I’ve done in the past, objective rather than biased. This may not appeal to everyone but I feel an honest review is more helpful than a flattering one.

Setup
Uptone ISO Regen /w LPS 1.2 <USPCB> Audio-GD DI-20HE DDC <I2S> Audio-GD R7HE DAC <ACSS> Audio-GD HE9 Pre <ACSS> Audio-GD Master 2H monoblocks >>> Hulgich Duke.

The difference is with how each DAC is connected to the HE9, the Denafrips Terminator is via XLR and the Audio-GD R7HE is via ACSS. Also since the Terminator does not have internal regeneration, I am using my Isotek Solus which does 40dB of attenuation against mains common and differential mode noise. As you can see this is the home territory for the R7HE with everything Audio-GD except the speakers, although the same speakers are used by Kingwa of Audio-GD to voice his products.

HDMI cable is the Moshou flat 0.5m @FredA recommended, and I have put both the Terminator and R7HE on stock kettle cords to keep them as equal as possible. Both DACs respond very well to better cables but I don’t have enough (of the same cord) to keep both DACs powered on and warmed up at the same time.

Both DACs are configured for NOS, with Roon oversampling to the power of 2 capped at 192khz (for compatibility reasons), precise minimum phase. The Denafrips Terminator has the latest DSP upgrades and the R7HE 2020 is set to TDA off and is using the shipped firmware which I am most familiar with the R7_Parallel_DOP_IIS3.

All items have 1000+ hours of burn-in, except the DI-20HE which is currently at approx. 750 hours.

Build
The Terminator, despite not having a huge regenerative backend and being physically less imposing is surprisingly the heavier DAC, it oozes quality and runs cool to the touch at all times. While the R7HE I can probably slow cook an egg on it during hotter days and I like to turn it off at least once a week out of paranoia, although unnecessary according to Kingwa.

The Terminator has no ventilation holes, eliminating the possibility of dust from getting into the DAC. While the R7HE has ventilation holes directly above the circuit boards which I cover up with fan filters.

With small red LEDs along the front of the brushed aluminium enclosure showing mode and input, the Terminator is intuitive and easy to set up, it feels like a finished product. My only complaint is the LEDs are not very bright and hard to see in a well-lit room. On the other hand, the R7HE is based on archaic morse code which absolutely require a manual, it's not difficult to learn but it certainly isn't designed to be user-friendly.

Both DACs have similar inputs and outputs, with the exception of ACSS output and 10Mhz clock input on the R7HE which allows both the DDC and DAC slaved to the same master clock. I have yet to add a 10Mhz clock to my backend.

The Sound
In terms of raw technical performance, the Terminator has a tough time keeping up with the R7HE. The R7HE is a beast but it isn't categorically better than the Terminator either.

The Terminator appears to sacrifice a degree of absolute accuracy for the pleasantness of sound. It is a gentle sounding DAC with slower decay, although sometimes a tad too smooth as it smothers certain nuances that is otherwise clearly present on the R7HE. However, the slower decay also adds a bit more body.

Both DACs are tonally spot on neutral when fed I2S. When listening to the intro of "Street Charmer" - Flim & the BB's, I couldn't discern a tonal difference of the street ambience rendered by either DACs.

Technical Breakdown
Soundstage
Both DACs are equally wide and deep. There is more air and better separation of instruments on the Terminator however, the R7HE has better focus and accurate imaging.

Tie.

Dynamics
The Terminator hits just as hard as the R7HE however, microdynamics is clearly better on the R7HE.

The background is darker on the R7HE, and the excellent dynamics makes notes suddenly appear out from nowhere one jiffy and gone completely the next.

On the Terminator the quietest and loudest notes are closer together in volume, it appeals to the detail junkie because everything can be heard, from the finger gliding over a double bass to the piano key striking the key bed. This can also be a double-edged sword, as on some older recordings the background static is raised to a higher level.

R7HE wins.

Treble
The treble on the R7HE is well extended and with better details, although at 8X oversampling it can sound sharp on some recordings and fatiguing for sensitive ears. When capped at 192khz, the treble is more balanced while still retaining the same amount of detail. Treble on the Terminator is more forgiving however, feels a bit subdued since it's missing the finer details of the R7HE.

Tie.

Midrange
If I didn’t know better, I would say the Terminator has an exceptional midrange, holding its own against many flagship DACs. But I’ve got the R7HE and I know what the better midrange sounds like.

The R7HE is the king of midrange, I have not heard a more balanced and realistic midrange of any DAC at any price. The transparency is on a different level to the Terminator, with crisp transients and unparalleled clarity. Vocals are fully textured and instruments are clearly delineated and yet, together. Leading edges have the correct sharpness yet are not too forward nor fatiguing. It is raw and unfiltered.

R7HE wins.

Bass
The bass is where the Terminator really shines, it is faster and more detailed in the mid and upper bass regions. The R7HE bass is a bit thicker and digs deeper however, when compared side by side, the bass sounds sluggish, overly rounded and lacks the same level of articulation. It’s almost like the Terminator / R7HE had done a 180 in bass control respective to other frequencies.

Terminator wins.

Song Impressions
@FredA; I Heard It Through the Grapevine – Bill Frisell, source: Tidal 16/44



This track has an enormous soundstage width and depth that goes beyond the confines of my room on both DACs. It starts off gentle and the main difference between the R7HE and Terminator is how the song grows in intensity over 8 minutes. On the R7HE each intensity increase is clear cut and the end result is satisfying, while on the Terminator the growth is gentler and by the end the same energy is missing and leaves you wanting more.

@anroj; Willow Weep for Me – Sinne Eeg/Thomas Fonnesbaek, source: Tidal 16/44



The Terminator renders the better and more detailed double bass, with each pluck sharper and clearly audible against the resonance of the instrument. On the R7HE the pluck is also audible but is harder to make out and is blanketed by the gooey bass. The R7HE redeems itself when Eeg’s voice emerges, it renders her voice complete with all nuances while the Terminator smooths over her voice.

@UsoppNoKami; Bad Guy – Billie Eilish, source: Tidal 16/44



The Terminator once again renders perfectly the moment the stick hits the drum, much earlier than the R7HE can, and on the R7HE it just seems to sound “doof doof doof…” in relativity. This track is overwhelmingly bassy on the R7HE and is more balanced on the Terminator where the bass is tighter and is of better quality. The synth notes at the 1 minute and 2 minute marks are more distinctive with the R7HE while on the Terminator there is a longer sustain after each note.

@Chopin75; Berceuse in D-Flat Major Op 57 Andante – Chopin/Francois Dumont, source: Tidal 16/44



Both DACs portray each piano note perfectly with the correct weight difference between the left and right hands, the Terminator is just a tad smoother especially in the upper octaves. My main issue is with the inherit airiness of the Terminator making the left and right hands sound like two separate pianos when the hands are further apart.

@Tango Sierra; Joan of Arc – Jennifer Warnes, source: Tidal 16/44



As the quiet and loud noises are closer together on the Terminator, the chimes in the background is more obvious during the intro of the track. The same chimes become almost inaudible from the 7th second onwards on the R7HE, they can be still be heard with mental focus and are more succinct. Once again, both Warnes and Cohan’s voices are sharper on the R7HE and smoother on the Terminator. The vocals on this track is quite shouty on the R7HE and is more laidback on the Terminator.

@Tango Sierra; Good Morning School Girl – Muddy Waters, source: HDTracks 24/96.



The speed of transient decay on the R7HE makes this track sound absolutely glorious, the Terminator has a slightly tighter bass but the midrange and treble sounds veiled in comparison. Soundstage and placement are spot on with both DACs.

From me; Limit to Your Love – James Blake, source: Tidal 16/44



This is a track where the Terminator really shines with its clean bass lines, the perfect contrast between voice, drums and drone. On the R7HE the bass is too slow and lingers long enough that it obscures the finer textures in the bass, it also bleeds into the lower midrange and lacks the same PRaT as on the Terminator. I dislike the R7HE rendition of this track.

Conclusion
As to what is better, the Denafrips Terminator or the Audio-GD R7HE? Neither. Bottom line there is no “best” even in high-end. Both DACs are exceptional, and my subjective preference is with the R7HE. While the Denafrips did superbly on Audio-GD’s turf (and is possibly a better standalone DAC), I prefer the overall more realistic sound of my R7HE over Terminator’s smooth and pleasant presentation, it also synergises better with the rest of my Audio-GD setup. Although I do find myself longing for the Terminator’s bass from time to time.

The Audio-GD R7HE is an ultra-premium product that has demonstrated the ability to perform in the high-end category. It is sold directly out of China without distributor and retailer markups which is how it can have godly performance at an entry level price. It will be endgame for many people looking for the ultimate neutrality, including seasoned audiophiles. There’s not many DACs that can come close to its raw performance.

Thank you so much for taking the time to do this great, unbiased review and I'm glad my song made it into the review list :) I have an R8 and I have noticed that the bass is a bit thick as well. I am going to try different room treatments and maybe silver cables to see if I can tame it somewhat. Has anyone else tried that with any success?
 
Jan 4, 2020 at 2:14 PM Post #5,751 of 11,260
Thank you so much for taking the time to do this great, unbiased review and I'm glad my song made it into the review list :) I have an R8 and I have noticed that the bass is a bit thick as well. I am going to try different room treatments and maybe silver cables to see if I can tame it somewhat. Has anyone else tried that with any success?

Hello Anroj
I also have the R8. I find the bass outstanding.

What do you mean with thick? Undefined?

What is your source?

Im feeding it with the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo and the DI-20 and it sounds superb.
 
Jan 4, 2020 at 2:25 PM Post #5,752 of 11,260
Hello Anroj
I also have the R8. I find the bass outstanding.

What do you mean with thick? Undefined?

What is your source?

Im feeding it with the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo and the DI-20 and it sounds superb.
Yep that was my point bringing up the usbridge signature, i would say bass is excellent here too.
 
Jan 4, 2020 at 3:07 PM Post #5,753 of 11,260
Hello Anroj
I also have the R8. I find the bass outstanding.

What do you mean with thick? Undefined?

What is your source?

I'm feeding it with the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo and the DI-20 and it sounds superb.
Hi PLGA, in my listening room "thick" is boomy, lacking articulation. Source is Musical Paradise-MP Berry music server, Wyred4Sound RUR, DI-20, R8. I just thought about this, but I'm using a subwoofer, which is in a corner. I will try some tracks with the sub turned off to see if that makes a difference in what I perceive as thick bass.
 
Jan 4, 2020 at 5:38 PM Post #5,754 of 11,260
Thanks everyone for your kind comments. I'm done with comparisons for awhile :)

@FredA concerning the USB bridge, the ISO Regen *is* my USB bridge. The ISO Regen is designed so at the moment the USB signal leaves the USPCB, it is completely jitter free when entering the DI-20HE. It's the reason I bought the ISO Regen as I've got a large air gap and a long USB cable that is very jittery without the ISO Regen.

I also like to point out the R7HE doesn't have a slow bass, it's just slower than the Terminator. I've tried different cables and it has made the bass better, but when you add the same cables to the Terminator it also improves and stays ahead of the R7HE.

I know it's hard to do swallow the Terminator has a better bass, as this is the R7 thread on head fi, you'll just have to trust me on that. It's almost like someone buying their first audiophile headphone and saying it has the best bass they've ever heard, because they haven't listened to anything with a better bass. We've all been there :)

Peace out
 
Jan 4, 2020 at 5:49 PM Post #5,755 of 11,260
Thanks Jack. I would argue the usbridge sig. possibly beats you regen but again, i have never tried the regen. Splendid work you have done, i am very grateful. Thanks very much Jack, this is a great contribution to this thread and very inspiring material. Awesome!
 
Jan 4, 2020 at 5:57 PM Post #5,756 of 11,260
Hi PLGA, in my listening room "thick" is boomy, lacking articulation. Source is Musical Paradise-MP Berry music server, Wyred4Sound RUR, DI-20, R8. I just thought about this, but I'm using a subwoofer, which is in a corner. I will try some tracks with the sub turned off to see if that makes a difference in what I perceive as thick bass.

It must be something related with your room modes. According to experts, subwoofer location is extremely important. I will send you some links about subwoofers written by James Smith, the author of the book Get Better Sound that help me a lot.

For me, a proper implemented pair of subs are a must in any good hi end system. It will improve a lot the bass response of the room and it will also improve soundstage and highs.
 
Jan 4, 2020 at 6:57 PM Post #5,757 of 11,260
It must be something related with your room modes. According to experts, subwoofer location is extremely important. I will send you some links about subwoofers written by James Smith, the author of the book Get Better Sound that help me a lot.

For me, a proper implemented pair of subs are a must in any good hi end system. It will improve a lot the bass response of the room and it will also improve soundstage and highs.
Thank you for the comments and advice. I backed off the volume on my sub to match my main speakers and it made quite a difference. I welcome the subwoofer article you mentioned.
 
Jan 4, 2020 at 10:52 PM Post #5,758 of 11,260
Thank you for the comments and advice. I backed off the volume on my sub to match my main speakers and it made quite a difference. I welcome the subwoofer article you mentioned.

Jim Smith is a well known expert in the audio comunity and totally advice reading his book Get Better Sound. He has worked with a lot of audiophile gear and voiced, according to him, about 1.000 systems.

He once wrotte me "I have never heard ANY system - no matter how great, no matter how expensive, no matter how deep the main speakers are claimed to reach, that did not benefit from a properly integrated pair of subs".

I followed his advice and bought a pair of subwoofers. Couldnt be happier.

After you get the best possible location for your main speakers and, most important, your listening position, considering your space, decor, couple and budget restrictions, you must locate and set the best you can your sub or subs (better two).

His articles about subs are the following, read them in order:

http://www.psaudio.com/article/subwoofery-trick-or-treat/

http://www.psaudio.com/article/trick-or-treat/

http://www.psaudio.com/article/wait-a-minute/

http://www.psaudio.com/article/smooth-operator/

http://www.psaudio.com/article/location-location-location/

http://www.psaudio.com/article/38363/

http://www.psaudio.com/article/subwoofery-the-finale/

Remember, you must FIRST set properly your main speakers and listening position and then your subs.

Jim recomends the use of a RTA and a Sound Presure Db, but you can use apps for Android or Apple like "Sound Analyzer" and with the phone you can get the job done pretty well, professional gear is expensive and not extremely necessary.

Its incredible how even one properly integrated sub can change the sound, but you MUST have a smooth bass in your listening position, meaning that the flattest frequency response from 20 to about 400 Hz.

If you follow Jim's advices to locate and set your subs, only one step will be done by ear, the last one. That will make the process more precise.
 
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Jan 4, 2020 at 11:10 PM Post #5,759 of 11,260
Thanks again for the the excellent review. May I suggest that a tighter bass perhaps can be achieved by doing OS x 0 if one still wants a NOS sound. It also smoothens out the sound a bit more. I suspect the Terminator has digital filter but the R7 NOS has none (or At least minimal) as far as
i know. The R7 NOS is very wide and deep and not necessarily worse despite perhaps slower or less well defined. It works nicely with classical acoustics instruments to give a full resonant sound.
 
Jan 5, 2020 at 12:10 AM Post #5,760 of 11,260
Jim Smith is a well known expert in the audio comunity and totally advice reading his book Get Better Sound. He has worked with a lot of audiophile gear and voiced, according to him, about 1.000 systems.

He once wrotte me "I have never heard ANY system - no matter how great, no matter how expensive, no matter how deep the main speakers are claimed to reach, that did not benefit from a properly integrated pair of subs".

I followed his advice and bought a pair of subwoofers. Couldnt be happier.

After you get the best possible location for your main speakers and, most important, your listening position, considering your space, decor, couple and budget restrictions, you must locate and set the best you can your sub or subs (better two).

His articles about subs are the following, read them in order:

http://www.psaudio.com/article/subwoofery-trick-or-treat/

http://www.psaudio.com/article/trick-or-treat/

http://www.psaudio.com/article/wait-a-minute/

http://www.psaudio.com/article/smooth-operator/

http://www.psaudio.com/article/location-location-location/

http://www.psaudio.com/article/38363/

http://www.psaudio.com/article/subwoofery-the-finale/

Remember, you must FIRST set properly your main speakers and listening position and then your subs.

Jim recomends the use of a RTA and a Sound Presure Db, but you can use apps for Android or Apple like "Sound Analyzer" and with the phone you can get the job done pretty well, professional gear is expensive and not extremely necessary.

Its incredible how even one properly integrated sub can change the sound, but you MUST have a smooth bass in your listening position, meaning that the flattest frequency response from 20 to about 400 Hz.

If you follow Jim's advices to locate and set your subs, only one step will be done by ear, the last one. That will make the process more precise.
This is great! Thank you so much for the information. I will start the process tomorrow.
 

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